Geeeez! *How* many times did I say we WEREN'T circumcising?! - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2003, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
StarMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I just wanted to share my experience at the hospital with my new little ds. While in labor I'm given forms to sign. One is a concent form for circ'ing the baby. No spot to decline the circ there, just a space to sign to ok for it.

I tell the nurse we are NOT circing. She says no problem, she'll mark it on my chart. Ok, cool. I have the baby, and am taken to recovery.

Nurse 1 comes in and asks if he's getting circ'ed in the morning. No, I said, we're not circ'ing him. Ok she says and leaves.

Nurse 2 comes in to schedule the circumcision, you know to go over risks, what's done, care of, blah blah blah. I tell her we are NOT circ'ing. She leaves.

Nurse 3 comes in and while chit chatting asks about when he's going to be circ'ed. For Pete's SAKE, WE'RE NOT CIRC'ING! Arg! Does no one read the chart?

Next morning... The doctor who preforms the circumcisions walks into the room to take the baby to do the circumcision. Huh, what? With no appointment? With no approval forms?? I wonder what would have happened had I been asleep, if ds slept in the silly plastic 'bassinette'!

Later that evening Nurse *4* asks if he's being snipped the next day. OMG come ON people, that's SIX people asking about circ'ing my son, five of them AFTER it should have been clear from one of our charts that no way was this happening!

Ds never left my site the whole stay. Its sad that if he would have had to leave one of my main reasons for him not being alone would be so they wouldn't sneak in snipping him!

Anyways, I just wanted to share that... Ds is home and whole And staying that way!

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
StarMama is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2003, 08:12 AM
 
BowenTherapist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ct
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
shessh, what a bunch of numb-skulls!
BowenTherapist is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 11:04 AM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 4,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
These are the same people who would swear they are neutral and don't press the mother for the procedure. Yeah, right! A mother who wasn't dead set sure of her decision would probably buckle on the 4th or 5th solicitation. This is pressure on the mother at a time she certainly doesn't need it. It is unethical!

It shouldn't be solicited after the first inquiry. After that, it becomes a subtle form of coercion. Actually, I don't think the mother should be asked. I think she should have to specifically request it, unprompted. I also think it should be after she has been counseled thoroughly about all of the risks and implications before she even gets to the hospital.

Imagine that it's tonsils. The doctor tells you that they are just insignificant little flaps of skin and removing them will only take a minute and there will be life long health benefits. There may be some truth to that. After the fifth time you have been asked, you are going to begin thinking that maybe you should go ahead and have them out. After all, if it weren't beneficial, they wouldn't continue asking you.

Here's the real scenario . . . . He does tonsilectomies on your child and two more that day. He's finished in about 20-30 minutes and pockets $900.00. On the way to his office, he stops off at the bank and makes the payment on his Mercedes The babies are fractious for a few days and refuse to nurse but get over it and never realize that part of their immune system may have been compromised. The doctor gets away scot free!




Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 11:13 AM
 
whateverdidiwants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Exiled in Bi-ville
Posts: 2,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Write a letter to the president of the hospital asap and cc it to the head of the nursing divison. After you declined once it became an issue of soliciting an unwanted procedure. They need to know about this.

I had tons of issues with the care I received when I gave birth (and I *work* at the hospital, so I knew how things are supposed to work, and all of the nurses knew I work here, so you'd think they'd be on their best behavior!) and I wrote a 4 page letter to the CEO giving as much detail as I could. The letter was sent to the AVP of every department that was involved (4 or 5 iirc) and I got a personal apology from every single one of them as well as a $50 gift certificate.

Hospitals take complaints about care very very seriously, especially when it shows that the nurses aren't paying attention the chart. ( in my case, the nurse brought me the wrong dosage of a blood thinner I was taking. we only caught it because I insisted on giving my own shots and saw that it was the wrong sized syringe)
whateverdidiwants is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 11:55 AM
 
Sarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok, now at the risk of making this sound like a certain song...

Do-what-ever-didi-wants- said- do it fast!!!



Make a GIANT complaint to the hospital, AND the state medical board. You also may want to find out- in some states it is ILLEGAL to soilicit unnecissary surgery- you might be able to sue them for harassment- contact ARC.

this needs to be stopped- this is harassment.
http://www.noharmm.org/knowrights.htm

Love Sarah

And HEY- Congratulations on the birth of your BABY!!
Sarah is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 01:19 PM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 11,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That makes me so ANGRY!

I third whateverdidiwants - write a letter while it's fresh in your mind. If you can, name the nurses and doctors by name. Also, make sure to mention that you would have brought civil tort claims against the hospital and the individual "care" providers for pain and suffering, as well as pressed criminal charges for assault and battery if that frickin' doctor had taken Orion away to be mutilated without your consent.

That ought to get their attention.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 01:35 PM
 
veganmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Yikes, living w/ my ILs!
Posts: 4,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lisa, we can prob get a letterwriting campaign going locally. Cross pot to FYT!
L
veganmamma is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 02:50 PM
 
kayjayjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Posts: 640
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, this is outrageous.

I'm so thankful my first was a girl. We were young and stupid and I was trying so hard to be a 'good' patient. :

Congratulations on your new baby.

Keri, wife to Tony, mom to five DDs: M ('96), S('01), E('04), A('07) and J('10);
kayjayjay is offline  
Old 10-02-2003, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
StarMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Letter writing would be a good idea. I never thought of it as harrasment, or that it might beat another mom down to decide to do it, but that's so true! I was just *so* against having him circ'ed it didn't occur to me that it might push someone who's so-so about it (or perhaps didn't like the idea but didn't know much about it... thinking "oh it must be a good thing to have done" without research or somethign) into having it done... Good point.

But I don't have much more detail that what I shared with you all here. I was VERY drugged up for 99% of my stay at the hospital (mag sulfate) and it made things very very fuzzy. I don't have a single name, nor any descriptions, or even acurate times these events occured. I'm just not sure that the letter would be taken seriously in light of that? Any thoughts on that?

If I had realized how serious this was when it was happening I would have gotten names and remembered times... and yes I realize now just how serious it is, but again I was drugged up into a stupor, made it hard to think straight...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
StarMama is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 12:27 AM
 
veganmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Yikes, living w/ my ILs!
Posts: 4,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that makes what they did even *more* negligent! Seriously, badgering a drugged up women to cut up her newborn son's penis? What if you didn't have the wherewithall to atnd up for him b/c of the drugs??
Lauren
veganmamma is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 02:40 AM
Banned
 
somemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Wrongful circumcision of infants is, unfortunately, not as rare an occurrence as many parents would believe." -- David J. Llewellyn, Attorney at Law. (scary stuff.)

BTW, our hospital was great......none of the nurses asked us about circ, nor handed us a consent form.

But our (ex) ped came in to check out the baby, and asked, "When can we schedule the....... " and then he left his sentence hanging, and just gestured to my son's penis.

It was so absurd.........he couldn't even SAY the word "circumcision" but he thought I was going to let him PERFORM one on my baby boy????!!!


Also, this is from noharmm.org (in the "litigation" section):

"Parents who were solicited for circumcision without requesting it----In most states, it is illegal for a medical facility or professional to solicit for unnecessary surgery. Offering or giving a new parent a Circumcision Consent Form is solicitation. If you are presented with such a form that you did not ask for, you may be able to bring legal action against the hospital. Winning such a case could set a legal precedent to stop this solicitation and thereby protect children in the future."

somemama is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 05:14 AM
 
bloodrayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Posts: 490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll write a letter! What hospital was it, Lisa? PM me if you would like.
bloodrayne is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 07:56 AM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 4,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RE: "I'm just not sure that the letter would be taken seriously in light of that? Any thoughts on that?"

The medical industry is very aware of the furror on this issue. Your letter just may be the straw that "breaks the camel's back."


Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 10:18 AM
 
whateverdidiwants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Exiled in Bi-ville
Posts: 2,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Even if you can't provide names and exact times you could still say evening of such-and-such date, morning of whenever. They can pull your chart and find out who your nurses were because the nurses will have signed any notations they put in your chart (vital signs, etc).

They will take you seriously. I promise.
whateverdidiwants is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 01:12 PM
 
Sara29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree to writing a letter,and sending it to a few places including orgs that are against circumcision so they can *watch* this hospital*.Just think of how many boys are leaving the hospital mutilated because the parents just weren't aware enough to protect them.
Sara
Sara29 is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 01:44 PM
 
Ilaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Currently living in Beijing, China
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's nuts!

You MUST write a letter!! What they did was wrong!

Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
Ilaria is offline  
Old 10-03-2003, 08:57 PM
 
Kylix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: drifting off in space
Posts: 1,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, that is mega scary!! Imagine if you had been sleeping or what not...

Also, I agree with FranklySpeaking, that is coercion!!

I too would write a letter/file a complaint.

It sickens me how so many ppl just ASSUME that every baby boy will be circumcised. One more reason why I will never give birth in a hospital by choice.

BTW, CONGRATS on your baby boy!! I dont think I have offered a formal welcome and congratulations to him and you!!

Welcome to the world Orion Matthew!

Kylix
Kylix is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 05:44 AM
 
nikirj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington
Posts: 4,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congratulations and welcome!

Wow, and I thought three in my case was bad. It had been a recurrent nightmare for me so when the third came in with "circumcision care instructions" I actually yelled at her. Didn't think to write a note, though. I totally think you should write! Seriously, even if it isn't exact it is SOMETHING, and it may actually just be that nobody has really thought about this before (or at least, nobody has thought to change their approach since however-many-years-ago when they first put their procedures in place).

Mama, homeschooler, midwife. DD (13yo), DS (11yo), DD (8yo), DD (3yo), somebody new coming in November 2013.

nikirj is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 09:11 AM
 
Nathan1097's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Senior-Title-Less!
Posts: 3,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had somebody come down with a cart of some sort and a clipboard the day after Nathan was born telling me he was there "to take Nathan down to be circumcised". He argued when I said "But I told people already I don't WANT him circumcised!" saying "But his name's up on the board...." He did leave after I refused again though. Like you- what if I had been asleep?? Just read that you were on mag. YIKES!! I've been on that twice and for anyone who doesn't know what that's about- you may as well be dead. You can't see worth anything, you can BEARLY move.... you sleep the whole time because of this. It relaxes ALL your muscles to the point of being a vegetable, basically. (In an attempt to stop labor - as in my cases- or to lower your blood prsesure.) This is obviously NOT a state someone could be making decisions in and for SURE not one that someone could be vigilant about keeping her newborn from being taken. GRR......

When my daughter was born it wasn't so much of an issue of course. Nobody asked. But when my youngest, Noah, was born, I had a postcard in his bassinet of the "stop circ" cartoon, a sticker in his medical chart in the spot where they put if the circ was completed or not in my room that was the "no" sign in red around "circ". I also put it in my birthplan in RED there was to absolutely be no circumcision and if they asked me about it I would consider it harrassment! (And I had 3 copies of the birthplan.) AND I had one of those "no circ" tshirts for him- which he DID wear eventually before we left the hospital. (We had to stay a little longer because I was group B strep +). There is part on the video where one nurse is telling another "They were very specific about not wanting him circ'd" while they're doing some "normal" stuff with him. This was when I was still delivering the placenta or something. I had 4 or 5 other family members there with me who KNEW what I wanted so I wasn't worried. And up until I was 7 cm or so I was carrying on conversations like we were at Starbucks so....

But you see all I had to go through just to get them NOT to bug me. Plus 4 years helps between births. Maybe there really ARE more people not circ'ing now. The first time I thought just saying "no" to my nurse was enough.
Nathan1097 is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 09:19 AM
 
Nathan1097's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Senior-Title-Less!
Posts: 3,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nathan1097 is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 01:02 PM
 
Xenogenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jamaica me happy.
Posts: 1,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grrrrrr . . .

I actually wondered if I had somehow been overly sensitive and somehow "imagined" that they had been badgering ME at the time of my Now-Circed-Five-Year-Old having been newly born!

I DID yell at them that I didn't want to circ. Numerous Times. But x-dh "insisted".

ByTheWay: Congratulations On The Birth Of Your Son!
Xenogenesis is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 01:13 PM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 4,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Who the heck could take a knife to something that cute, sweet, innocent and peaceful? GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 01:20 PM
 
Xenogenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jamaica me happy.
Posts: 1,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I also find it amazing how doctors can push aside compassion and common sense to cut into the flesh of a beautiful new born Babe.
Xenogenesis is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 04:57 PM
 
Aloe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern Ohio
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just wanted to say I think this occurs in lots of hospital situations...I mean beyond circ. That's why there are so many medical mistakes. Docs, nurses, tech, etc, don't take the time to read through the charts.
Aloe is offline  
Old 10-04-2003, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
StarMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Wow Jennie! It would have been great to have a few of those things you had for your 2nd ds's birth! Of course, we were *planning* a homebirth, so I didn't expect all this... And yes that mag sulfate is evil evil evil. I feel SO sorry for women who have to be on it to stop pre-term labor and are on it for days, weeks, months... the hot flashes, headache, and feeling like I had the flu (complete with vomiting, and feeling like my muscles were play-do) were the worst.

Thank you for the compliment on Orion He looks like his daddy, with my nose!

The hospital was Kaiser, in Walnut Creek Ca. for anyone who wants to write. I will get a letter together, but it will take awhile I'm sure, my time is pretty much taken up with Orion, and when he's asleep I have to weigh my options (eat, sleep, do dishes, ect)... but I will write something out as soon as I can, and I'll post it here for you all to see I'll cross post to FYT then Lauren.

Aloe, I do think it was simply not looking at my chart as well. Which I could understand with the couple of nurses who were just 'making conversation' with me about it. But for the person who schedules the circ? And *especially* for the doctor or whoever it was who was coming to take Orion for it? Totally no excuse.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
StarMama is offline  
Old 10-05-2003, 01:03 AM
 
Gitti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ready to move on...
Posts: 14,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/

Scroll down to State Medical Boards.

Solicitation for surgery and promotion of unnecessary circumcision should be reported to the State Medical Boards.
Gitti is offline  
Old 10-05-2003, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
StarMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thank you Gitti, I will certainly CC them when I get my letter written.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
StarMama is offline  
Old 10-08-2003, 02:47 PM
 
SheBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: A bit of Dixie in the Midwest!
Posts: 2,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan1097
http://64.85.254.220/Baby's 1 Day Old Pictures 005.jpg

VERY CUTE!!
T Oh wow! What a doll! Is that Orion, Lisa?

Ds is sitting here on my lap, he just pointed out the baby's eyes, nose, and mouth, then started smothering the monitor with kisses! Then he insisted on me giving the baby a kiss, too!

What a sweetie....he's gonna be a good big brother!

And Orion is such a sweetie, too! Totally deserves to be smothered with kisses!

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
SheBear is offline  
Old 10-08-2003, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
StarMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Awwwww Sarah! That must have been too cute to see! Your ds is gonna be a great big brother!

Yup that's my little Orion! I've got more piccies of him on my sig too (no no, I'm not the totally proud mama or anything! :LOL This little guy is 3 weeks old and I've already got about 8 scrapbook pages filled!)

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
StarMama is offline  
Old 10-08-2003, 07:56 PM
 
3 little birds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can't believe anymore that all of these solicitations are accidental.
The same thing happened to my friend about circing but they made it out of there intact.
However, after she repeatedly refused Vitamin K shot, they waited til she was asleep and guilted her husband into doing it.
She was NOT happy.

wave.gif
3 little birds is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off