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#1 of 73 Old 03-26-2002, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone had experience?
Just approaching the subject with dh.
He agrees that the surgery (circ) is wrong, no one should make that decision for another, etc.
Is fortunate to have about as "good" a circ as possible, no excessive scarring, etc. Is satisfied now with the way he is, as am I. I have always been thrilled with him, actually...
Don't know if realizes what he is missing... could it be even better?
Anyone approached the subject with dh?
I would hate for him to feel inadequate, he certainly is more than *adequate* - but could there be even more, as nature intended?
For him, even more than for me?
Isn't everyone entitled to what they were born with? What nature meant for them to have?
Tell me I am not the only one here to give this thought...

YIF,
Tracy
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#2 of 73 Old 03-26-2002, 01:37 AM
 
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My dh started the restoration process 4 years ago but never finished it. He did get sensitivity back though. I wish he would've continued- or would start up again. He was so proud of his progress so don't know why he quit. You should do a search online under "foreskin restoration"- you'll find sites with info, I'm sure!
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#3 of 73 Old 03-26-2002, 08:34 PM
 
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There's a fabulous book called The Joy of Uncircumcising. You can get it at amazon.com. My dh is currently restoring. And yes he was missing something. Sensitivity increased 10-fold and the sex is also 100 times better(and he was already great in bed). There are many methods. But, it has to be your dh that approaches the subject not you.
Megan
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#4 of 73 Old 03-26-2002, 08:56 PM
 
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Cool thread.

No, I've never brought up the subject w/ DH. I might someday, tho. I've heard great things about "The Joy of Uncircumcising."
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#5 of 73 Old 04-04-2002, 03:50 PM
 
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Wow, that book costs over $100!!
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#6 of 73 Old 04-04-2002, 06:48 PM
 
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holy cow. You've got to be kidding me! I guess that explains why I've *heard* great things about it, but have never seen an actual copy! I wonder if the local librarian would fall off her stool if I ask her to request the Joy of Uncircumcising....hmmm.....
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#7 of 73 Old 04-04-2002, 08:23 PM
 
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The book IS out of print... but is available from the author for $20! I do not think these books are "used" but are older books that got roughed up in a warehouse or not selling on a shelf in a bookstore.

http://www.norm.org/joy.html

Sounds like a VERY limited supply- but who knows- that may be a sales pitch... but at $20 is that a PROBLEM?

Love Sarah
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#8 of 73 Old 04-04-2002, 11:58 PM
 
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I looked on amazon and that's where the book was listed for $100 and up from sellers. Good to know you can still get it for $20.
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#9 of 73 Old 04-05-2002, 11:28 AM
 
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Oh, whew!!!

Thanks for the link, Sarah!
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#10 of 73 Old 04-05-2002, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey, guess what I found at the library! Yep - the Joy of Uncircumsizing! Along with a few others, of course.
DH has been reading non-stop. He is really getting an education beyond the infant cruelty issue, as am I.
Oh, I also ordered, Sex As Nature Intended from Barnes and Noble.

Thanks for all the replies! DH has actually expressed an iterest in reclaiming what is rightfully his (gee, why do I feel like that should be in quotation marks?), although he is hesitant because he wants to be sure he is "normal" in his thoughts, if that makes sense.

A related issue: oh, maybe that should be a separate thread... OK, here goes...

YIF,
Tracy
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#11 of 73 Old 04-06-2002, 09:56 AM
 
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OK Tracy- What gives... where is the other thread?

I don't want to horribly skew your own experience with the book- but I have to say that I HATE that book "Sex as nature intended it." Although I will be the first to back up the premise of the book- I think that the book is a disaster in many ways. Please when you get your copy and are done reading it (I never finished it but shelved it in disgust... and my husband may have used it to stoke the woodstove) post your thoughts about it as well as your husband's. I am afraid that Kristen O'Hara ia getting a big name and glory for something that should have come in a very different format. For now, I will stick to trusting Bigelow although I have not even SEEN his book simply because I am SOOO disapointed in Ohara.

Love Sarah
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#12 of 73 Old 04-12-2002, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sarah,
Don't have a clue about the "other thread" - went to bed after that, I thought I would get it back, but, no... LOL I *never* write anything without being interrupted 15-20 times, too many kids, and am rapidly losing brain cells. Example: right now dd, 11, is im'ing me, a 40-step-process (avg. 4 im's per one of my sentences), the dog is lost and 2 other kids are calling it, etc...

Re: the book, "As Nature Intended," ds looking over my shoulder, quite mixed feelings. I hesitate to criticize any pro-intact publication, but gee... I thought dh and I had an *awesome* sex life!!! Now I am told that's impossible?!
I even wondered if I am misguided in my hygeine b/c I use soap?

Dh has a theory: She wrote the book b/c she was caught in an affair and needed to justify it. ?!

I guess my feeling is that if it provokes thought about the subject, it can't be all bad.

Bloobug and Nathan,
How far have your dh's gone? My dh needed to hear that other "normal" men have persued this. He has actually started, wanted to surprise me, and the added elasticity is amazing already!

TIA, YIF,
Tracy
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#13 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 05:57 PM
 
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I want to thank Sarah for pointing me to this place. I especially like the interest from the women here. One of the biggest obstacles men have to begining restoration is talking to their wives or significant others. I have seen posts from men in some of the restoration sites wanting to tell their partners and wondering if they can do their restoration without their wives knowing because they are just too shy or something. It can be a hard subject to broach. The perfect thing for a wife to do is to bring the subject up to her husband as in "Honey, I heard about the most amazing thing on the Mothering Forum today."

I told my partner as soon as I found out about restoration before I had too much of a chance to get apprehensive about it and she did exactly what I was afraid she would do. She laughed! I showed her information on the web and she told me that she thought I was nutz! She then told me that she had never seen an intact penis. She's been divorced 24 years! I then showed her what a foreskin looks like and her reaction was "OH! That's so ugly! What ever would you want something like that for?" So you see, I had a large obstacle to overcome both in myself and in her.

This is going to get a little graphic since we are talking about sex and genitals, so if you are squeamish about those subjects . . . Just stop reading right now.

I can go on and on all day about the benefits of foreskins and restoration but instead of that, let me just give you a couple of personal stories. Before I started restoration my partner and I had a sex life, but not anything to brag about. Our frequency was less than once a week. We had a standing appointment for Saturday night but sometimes things got in the way and we didn't do our Saturday night thing and it was postponed to the next Saturday night. You see, neither one of us really, really, really enjoyed it. Missing a week was alright. For me it was all about the orgasm. That 10-12 seconds of intense feelings. The rest of it was just the path to the orgasm. She was post-menopausal and didn't produce much lubrication anymore and so we had to use artificial lubrication. Artificial lubricants are either sticky or greasy. Not nice! Artificial lubricants run out after a while and the friction is there again, so you either stop and lube up again or try to just presevere to the finish. Neither of these are conducive to great love making. Since I had lost over 50% of the sensitivity in my penis to circumcision, I had to go a long time and pretty aggressively. After about four months of restoration, I had enough skin to move up and down the shaft. Her first comment was that sex had definitely gotten more comfortable. It was shortly after that that we threw out the lubricants and have never used them again.

I've been restoring about one and a half years now and there is a tremendous improvement. Just recently something happened that quantified the improvement for me. Before restoration, my partner worked very hard during oral sex. That's what it took for her to get a reaction from me. Recently, I told her that she was going too hard and needed to let off a little bit. The sensations were just too much. The next time we made love, I told her that I had told her that she needed to be more gentle and leave some skin on it. Her reply was "I'm just barely touching it!" I was jumping around the bed like a jumping bean and didn't have a clue! What more can I say?

Foreskin restoration is definitely legitimate.

Jim Bigelow's book, "The Joy of Uncircumcising" is in it's second printing. Marilyn Milos at NOCIRC tells me the second printing is almost sold out. Marilyn is the one who sent me my copy. If she still has copies, I think she charges $34.95 with the extra to help fund her organization. You may still be able to buy at the list price of $19.95 but not for long. The $119.95 price at Amazon is for a lightly used copy from someone that knows the book is almost sold out and knows the popularity of it. He will probably get his price eventually. At this point I don't know if Jim is going to do a third printing or not. The subject is changing very rapidly and since the second edition there has been enough new information that it will require Jim to make substantial changes to the book to be current. Also, there is so much information available on the web that the thinking might be that the book has outlived it's usefulness. The web was in it's infancy when the first printing of his book came out in 1991.

I would really like to get this topic going here and will be glad to share my experiences.


Frank
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#14 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 06:55 PM
 
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Frank,

Let me ask you a question, I did exactly as you said "hey honey guess what......." This was a few days ago. Anyway, I'm torn I don't want him to think I'm not happy with him. So I am afraid to bring it up again. I didn't say it in a way that suggested he should do it. And I don't plan on discussing my past experince with intact men, even though he does know about it.

Anyway so how do you inform him (he won't look for info himself) and let him know you would support him if he was interested, without making him feel inadequate.

In all honesty it really tics me off that his parents did this to him. I know exactly what's been changed because of my past experience.

He is the type to deny his feelings as long as he can, so I think that it might really bother him too.

any suggeestions
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#15 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 07:33 PM
 
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To be perfectly honest with you, you're the first wife that has asked me about this so we're plowing new ground here.

What you've done is planted a seed in his mind. As you probably know, seeds don't germinate for several weeks. He may be rolling it over and over in his mind as we speak and very well may come back to you and ask for more information. Be prepared to provide him with the places to go on the web. You can also fertilize the ground where the seed is planted. Provide him with more information from the web such as "Honey, I read today that:

1. Sex is better for uncircumcised men.
2. These restored men rave about the improvement.
3. The wives say sex is much better than before.
4. You get the idea.

One hint every week or two just to keep it on his mind will eventually get a response.

The best policy is to be honest. If sex is painful or too rough for you or any of the other reasons, be prepared to tell him in a loving way.

However, I must tell you, restoration is a long process and requires a commitment. It's a major hassle and it's not painfull but not without pain occasionally either. If he's not committed to it, he'll never finish it or may not even get started good. Marilyn Milos, founder and director of NOCIRC, tells me that her sons are fully aware of the process and benefits of restoration but are not interested in pursuing it. That may be the case for your husband.

Put yourself in his place. He perceives that sex is as good as it can get. He can't fathom that it can be any better. To consider having tape and hardware and elastic attached to his penis 24/7 for several years when he can't comprehend the benefit, is just foriegn. Put yourself in that same position and imagine wearing the same equipment on your genitals and having a substantial pulling force on them all day every day and you may see where he is coming from.

I assume from your post that you love him very much. You want to help him because you love him. You want to help him be all that he can be. However, he must understand that there is better before he can accept a solution. In the end, you may have to love him as he is.

Frank
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#16 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 08:08 PM
 
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Wow, thank you so much for your terrific post.

Your right, I've noticed that germination time can take a bit thanks for reminder *smiles*

I don't know that much about restoration myself. If fact he and I had little conversation speculating how it could be done (when I first brought it up). And he thought it would be by surgical skin graft. I told him I had no idea, which was the truth. After I posted to you, I went to noharm and read about the stretching method. But I didn't notice them saying it had to be 24/7.

You definately have to be commited to do it 24/7. I appreciate your honesty. It can't be easy. And I'm not sure that I would have the dedication if it was me. I think your suggestions were great about sharing what I've found. I will gently and gradually share what I know. I have a feeling that 24/7 is more investment than he would be willing. But it is his call not mine. I love him, will no matter what.

I only have one more question. I didn't notice this info on noharm. Once a man has achieved whatever goal of restoration he has (total, partial whatever) does the stretching have to continue forever? Will the gains be lost if the stretching isn't continued?

Thanks for sharing your story and helping me understand
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#17 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 09:12 PM
 
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There are a lot of clubs or groups on the web for restoration. The largest with over 2,000 members is "Foreskin Restoration 3" at Yahoo! There have been over 9,000 posts there all about foreskin restoration issues. There are before and after pictures and pictures of devices (of torture!) both commercially available and home made. Here's a link to take you there:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foresk...guid=112092464

As to whether the gains can be lost . . . It doesn't appear that the skin ever shrinks back. This isn't something that has been done a long time and so nothing's set in concrete. Within a week or so after discontinuing stretching, the skin relaxes and shrinks some (maybe as much as 25%) but after that what you have is permanent. Basically, you have to go a little beyond what you want so that when the shrinkage occurs, you end up at your goal.

By the way, There is a surgical method. Jim Bigelow talks about it in his book. There are very a few plastic surgeons that do it. There is a Dr. Stubbs in Canada that has a website that shows the before and after. There are two methods and from what I have read, both work but neither are very esthetically pleasing. They are both versions of skin grafts. Since the skin on the shaft of the penis is unique on the body, the grafted skin doesn't match. There are also two scars that go all of the way around the penile shaft and one that goes the length. From what I've read, I speculate the cost of this surgery would be between $20 and $25 thousand. Imagine that! His parents probably paid $50.00 or less and these men spend that much to get back to *nearly* normal!
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#18 of 73 Old 06-06-2002, 10:28 PM
 
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Wow that is a heck of alot of money. And as you said it would not be the same type of skin.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. And for the information about the long term effects. I'll share this with him when the time is right.

I just wanted to say I really appreciate your candor about this. It's not often you find someone willing to share such personal information. Thank You
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#19 of 73 Old 07-01-2002, 02:59 AM
 
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Hi
I've read the posts on this topic, at times unable to read because of the tears. I think it is absolutely amazing that there are women/mothers out there who understand the lifelong disability that results from circumcision, not to mention the pain and horror at the time this barabaric practice occurred.

Probably like a lot of men, I have experienced reduced sensitivity over time. It finally got to the point that I was unable to achieve orgasm during intercourse and began trying to identify the problem and search for a solution. What I found on the medical websites was less than helpful, either telling me that the problem was all in my head (psychological) or that I was in need of "touch therapy". No where did any medical website even suggest that the problem *might* be due to circumcision. Eventually I found the information linking reduced sensitivity to circumcision. The more I read, the more I understood what had been taken from me and the more angry and betrayed I felt about it.

This afternoon, I downloaded a media clip showing a circumcision being performed. Understanding the source of the infant boy's pain and hearing his cries broke my heart. I was reminded of the time I was in the nursery with my then 4 hour old daughter, and the nurse was trying to collect blood for a PKT test. She jabbed my little girl in the heel repeatedly trying to squeeze out enough blood to cover a postage stamp sized square on a card. With each jab, my little girl screamed. I remember the anger and rage I felt at this barbarity. Finally, after the sixth attempt I told the nurse "that's enough" in what I'm sure was my deadliest tone of voice. At that point in time, I was ready to do her bodily harm. She appeared ready to inflict more pain, but after looking at me I think she decided that I was right and abandoned any further attempts. The pain of a circumcision has got to be 100 times worse and I just cannot imagine subjecting anyone to that kind of torture, let alone a defenseless hours old infant. The thought makes me sick to my stomach.

I have been attempting restoration on and off for about a year now, with limited success. My wife's initial reaction was amusement as well, and that was difficult to deal with until I began educating her. I think she is a lot more understanding now and I think that will help as I resume my restoration.

I think most men, if they think about it at all, will be in denial, simply because as boys, we were never told the truth or given factual information about our own bodies. Because men have never known anything else, they'll never really know what it is they have lost. Others, understanding the extent of the loss will experience shame, humiliation, anger, distrust, etc as the enormity of their violation soaks in.

Anyway, thanks for being sensitive and having the critical thinking skills necessary to pierce the veil of ignorance about this. Your sons will have much to be grateful for when they are my age.
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#20 of 73 Old 07-01-2002, 01:33 PM
 
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Welcome, thaiger

Thanks for sharing such profound, honest feelings & thoughts. My heart goes out to you. Although my DH is 100% opposed to circ & would NEVER allow it to be done to our child, he is far from realizing the enormity of violation (as you put it) that was committed against him when he was circ'd. He learned just enough about circ to realize that it was wrong--but then decided to learn no more about it. I think it's a defense mechanism...almost like he doesn't want to fully know what he is missing or what he went thru when he was a baby...it might be too painful to learn.

I wish you all the best with your restoration. Thanks for joining the conversation.

Love,
Jolene
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#21 of 73 Old 07-07-2002, 04:17 AM
 
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I'm new here, and I tried posting a LONG reply to this subject, and somehow it didn't go where it was supposed to go....

i am not a mother yet, I am not married yet, but I have decided NOT to CIRC my sons when i have them!! It is a subject that gets debated alot in my family. I seem to be the only anti-circ member of my family. Same with my friends. They always bring up the "hygene" crap, and i just wanna slap them sometimes!!!

Anyway, I have been with my boyfriend, (bf, i guess) for a little over a year. When we got together, he was about 25% restored. Now he is about 50% restored. And the sex gets better as that percentage rises!!

my tips for encouragement of your bf or dh if he chooses to restore or is thinking about it:

1. Don't question him--it's safe and a healthy, inexpensive way to "re-grow" penile tissue and foreskin. And yes, his penis will get bigger as the foreskin grows. In fact, that will probably be one of the first noticeable changes besides looser skin and skin mobility. For a while, he might think he will never get anywhere with his foreskin because his penis keeps getting bigger.

2. Notice the little changes--his glans will change shape and color. It will change from a dry, skin-tone "bullet" to a moist, pink-dark pink "ski slope." Noticing changes like this will let dh or bf know that you are paying attention and are interested in what he's doing.

3. Enjoy his progress!!--Play with it more, (if you are helping him"manually stretch" his foreskin, how can he say no to retoring? ). Sex will get better for both of you and he will enjoy the benefits of a foreskin, not only sexually, but bf says he feels more masculine, proud, and confident in himself in his day-to-day activities. Really, if your man wants to do something to boost his confidence and give him a good self-image, this would be it!

If anyone has any ?'s, please let me know, I will be happy to help!

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#22 of 73 Old 07-07-2002, 11:32 AM
 
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Christy, you are wise well beyond your years!

It's a shame that a man just begining his sexual life is having to go through this.


The most heart wrenching story I have seen is a guy that was on "Foreskin Restoration/3" that was told by a doctor that he needed a circumcision because of phymosis. Phymosis is easily "curable" with stretching exercises that rarely take more than two months. He consented to the circumcision and then did his research because he was so unhappy with the result. His restoration started 19 days after the circumcision!


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#23 of 73 Old 07-07-2002, 12:40 PM
 
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Thanks for sharing that info! Congrats to you boyfriend for his progress w/ restoration, and congrats to both of you for knowing the benefits of leaving your children intact!
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#24 of 73 Old 07-08-2002, 12:03 PM
 
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How do you do it though? I can't go out and buy a 100 dollar book, so if you have the way I would like to know Thanks
Maize
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#25 of 73 Old 07-08-2002, 12:41 PM
 
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Maize- There is a lot of info online. You might start your seach at http://www.norm.org that's the National Orginization of Restoring Men. There website covers the basics of what restoration is and why men do it. They also have local chapters of support groups. They have links off that site to some other info sites. there are many different techniques that rely on tension, weights, taping and manual stretching. Different methods work for different people or situations. Results vary from person to person- but it is usually a pretty long commitment- but once done- the results are premanent... when something "stretches" it will "snap back" when tension is released... but with the human body- the prolonged stretching encourages growth... when new skin cells grow- they don't go away. So they are not really stretching their skin- they are growin new skin.

Another website that I think is very informative because it deals with physical AND emotional issues- is this one:
http://www.wicked-envy.com/start.htm

Many men have published their diaries detailing how and why they restored and often they include photos of their progress.

Hope that helps
Love Sarah
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#26 of 73 Old 07-08-2002, 12:49 PM
 
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Here's the largest of all of the restoration sites with over 2,000 members and thousands of postings. These guys will be more than happy to help.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foreskinrestoration3/

Depending on the method you use, the cost for all of the supplies you use can be less than $100. That's a lot less than what the procedure cost that makes restoration necessary.

Some men have claimed full restoration was accomplished in as little as 9 months but that is extremely unusual. the average seems to be about three years and one guy has been at it more than 8 years.

The results can be very gratifying!



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#27 of 73 Old 07-09-2002, 03:07 AM
 
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I love being part of this community!! And you are so helpful with everything!! I think it is a wonderful thing that you are doing with NOCIRC and all the men and babies that you are helping.

I think it's cool that you restore and are so candid with that info. I started learning in-depth about RIC from my current bf who is also a restorer. I had already made the decision before I met him that my kids wouldn't be circ'd, not just because of the human rights issue, but also because my exhusband,(i got married at 19 for the wrong reasons...big mistake!), had a serious complication in his "RIC" that left him with horrible suture scars and very small size. He refused to talk about it, and when the subject was brought up, he would get mad at me, but said that he would still circ his sons, in spite of his situation. I still (after 4 years of being with him and being married to him for a year), don't know what happened and at what age to cause such trauma to him. I couldn't believe after what he went through, he would put his own child through it, but his attitude was, "It happened to me, so it's normal." I am SOOOO glad I LEFT him!!!!!

So now I am with a wonderful man who I hope to marry and he restores!! His parents kinda always said his circ was "too loose," but when he hit puberty, it was "too tight." He started ?ing his mom, (a nurse), when he was 16-17 about what it was and why she did that to him. She apologized to him and told him that if she had been through nursing school before my bf and his brother were born, she would've never had them circ'd. So off he went to find out how to fix this great mistake that was made...and he was fortunate enough to find men like you who are open and honest about restoration.

So thank you Frank for all the excellent work you are doing!!!

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#28 of 73 Old 07-12-2002, 11:55 PM
 
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i'm missing something here. I've had sex with men cut and uncut and none of them ever thought they were getting substandard sex as a result of their circumcision. Isn't it possible that this author is just looking for a way to sell books and that this is a pseudo issue?
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#29 of 73 Old 07-13-2002, 12:21 AM
 
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Your first presumption is that every man who is restoring would be doing so specifically because he was dissatisfied with his sex life.

This is not true.

Your next presumption is that just because you have never known a man who actually was dissatisfied with his sexual experience, that they don't exist.

They do exist.

Your third presumption is that an author could capitilize on decieving a large group of men who were otherwise perfectly happy with having a part of their sexual anatomy missing and making an issue where none exists.

That would be quite a feat!
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#30 of 73 Old 07-13-2002, 12:39 AM
 
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You're presuming that you know how to read my mind. You presume too much, grasshopper. I thought perhaps there were open minds here. In that respect, I presumed too much indeed.
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