S/O: Disowning or Ignoring those who circ - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 04:54 PM
 
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Not trying to be offensive... merely stating my opinion, which I thought was allowed on MDC.

If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. You gave a pretty descriptive mention about her rubbing cream on her son's penis and how private that was, and then 2 sentences later said, "In my mind what she did was sexual abuse, pure and simple." I assumed those things were related, not that you were labeling circumcision as sexual abuse. I'm obviously not the only one who misunderstood, since early posts in the thread are debating whether the cream rubbing would or would not be considered sexual.

But I still think that's a pretty heavy accusation to throw at someone. What about the people that actually were sexually abused (in the 'standard' definition of the term) as children- they might be equally offended by you calling a medical procedure sexual abuse. And NO, I'm not saying that routine circumcision is ok. I just don't think that it's sexual abuse. I think that people need to be educated, which will take time. You can't expect that everyone will listen to your point of view when society as a whole (not to mention the medical profession) has been telling them the exact opposite for decades.

And just out of curiosity- what would you plan to report my post for? If I have violated any part of the UA, please let me know. I am merely stating an opinion about your post, which is the whole point of posting discussions on a discussion board.

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#92 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And just out of curiosity- what would you plan to report my post for?

Um, how about the part where you said I should be prosecuted? It's comforting that not only do you think just because circumcision is legal, it's not abusive, but you also think people like me who call it for what it is should go to jail.

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#93 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:03 PM
 
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i consider circ. sexual abuse. its a sexual organ and its abused by circ'ing. permanently.
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#94 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:05 PM
 
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On the subject of sexual abuse...I think one of the saddest facts about circumcision in the USA is that the abuse doesn't stop with the surgery...caregivers are taught to push back the remaining skin for months and sometimes years after the initial circumcision to prevent adhesions. That's days and months and years of penal manipulation by the caregiver...and it's not like the child understands why.

I can't imagine a little girl having her clitoral hood manipulated for a couple years and it not having some affect on her in some way or another.....but it's so "accepted" for little boys here

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#95 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:25 PM
 
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Um, how about the part where you said I should be prosecuted? It's comforting that not only do you think just because circumcision is legal, it's not abusive, but you also think people like me who call it for what it is should go to jail.
Again... since you obviously didn't read my post, I said that I thought you were talking about the cream rubbing on the penis as sexual abuse, not the circumcision.

Even skipping that fact- how is that against UA? I'm not allowed to say that someone watching sexual abuse happen and doing nothing should be prosecuted along with the abuser? Just because you disagree with a post, doesn't mean that it should be removed. Seriously- if you can't handle someone having a different opinion than you, you shouldn't be posting on a discussion board. That's all- my opinion. I'm done... so you can spout your anger at someone else. I wasn't trying to piss anybody off- I was just a little shocked at your OP stating that your sister had sexually abused her son. And yes, my second paragraph is completely off topic, so I have no problem with a mod asking me to remove it.

Back on topic- if you want to make a positive change in people, going around disowning people (especially family) and publicly chastising them is not the way to do it in my opinion.

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#96 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:28 PM
 
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Not trying to be offensive... merely stating my opinion, which I thought was allowed on MDC.

If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. You gave a pretty descriptive mention about her rubbing cream on her son's penis and how private that was, and then 2 sentences later said, "In my mind what she did was sexual abuse, pure and simple." I assumed those things were related, not that you were labeling circumcision as sexual abuse. I'm obviously not the only one who misunderstood, since early posts in the thread are debating whether the cream rubbing would or would not be considered sexual.

But I still think that's a pretty heavy accusation to throw at someone. What about the people that actually were sexually abused (in the 'standard' definition of the term) as children- they might be equally offended by you calling a medical procedure sexual abuse. And NO, I'm not saying that routine circumcision is ok. I just don't think that it's sexual abuse. I think that people need to be educated, which will take time. You can't expect that everyone will listen to your point of view when society as a whole (not to mention the medical profession) has been telling them the exact opposite for decades.

And just out of curiosity- what would you plan to report my post for? If I have violated any part of the UA, please let me know. I am merely stating an opinion about your post, which is the whole point of posting discussions on a discussion board.
Most of the time circumcision is a cosmetic procedure done by ADULTS to make their infant sons penis look more sexually attractive, eventually when he is an adult. How many people say they think intact penis's are ugly or are afraid women won't find their sons sexually attractive? These are BABIES for crying out loud! No one should be concerned with the attractiveness of their infant son's penis. I had a hard time classifying it as sexual abuse at first because compared to the common definition it isn't exactly the same. It is at a minimum physical abuse that is accepted by our culture as normal.
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#97 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Again... since you obviously didn't read my post, I said that I thought you were talking about the cream rubbing on the penis as sexual abuse, not the circumcision.

Even skipping that fact- how is that against UA? I'm not allowed to say that someone watching sexual abuse happen and doing nothing should be prosecuted along with the abuser? Just because you disagree with a post, doesn't mean that it should be removed. Seriously- if you can't handle someone having a different opinion than you, you shouldn't be posting on a discussion board. That's all- my opinion. I'm done... so you can spout your anger at someone else. I wasn't trying to piss anybody off- I was just a little shocked at your OP stating that your sister had sexually abused her son. And yes, my second paragraph is completely off topic, so I have no problem with a mod asking me to remove it.

Back on topic- if you want to make a positive change in people, going around disowning people (especially family) and publicly chastising them is not the way to do it in my opinion.

I don't go around publicly chastising people, for gods sakes! Where the hell do you come up with your crap?

I swear, I have never been as angry at anyone on this entire community as I am with you right now. This is ridiculous.

Someone please tell me how to block a user so I don't have to see any more of her posts.

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#98 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:50 PM
 
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I don't go around publicly chastising people, for gods sakes! Where the hell do you come up with your crap?
I didn't mean me. I meant your sister. Wasn't that the point of the OP- to make everyone see what a horrible person your sister was, and ask if you were justified in disowning her?? Or have I completely missed the point of your thread?

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#99 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:53 PM
 
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Back on topic- if you want to make a positive change in people, going around disowning people (especially family) and publicly chastising them is not the way to do it in my opinion.
What do you suggest then? What does one do when a family member/friend unapologetically circs after receiving all of the information on how harmful it is?
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#100 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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What do you suggest then? What does one do when a family member/friend unapologetically circs after receiving all of the information on how harmful it is?
I'm wondering the same thing?? How are we SUPPOSED to feel? What are we supposed to do? Roll over and let it die? Keep bringing it up?
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#101 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 07:04 PM
 
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Her answer was that something had to pay for what she'd just been through.
My answer would be: it depends. And the attitude in this sentence would seal the deal for me - no way. I can't even... there are no words.

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#102 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 07:14 PM
 
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#103 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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to block: User CP ---> Buddy/ Ignore Lists---> Add New User to List

Thanks, already done .

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#104 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 07:56 PM
 
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I think the fact I was sexually abused (in the standard definition even) is one of the reasons I know with out a doubt MGM and FGM are sexual abuse. I think denial/social conditioning and a lack of understanding of the normal male genitalia (and maybe empathy for the infant boys) are the only things keeping logical people from seeing MGM as abuse.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#105 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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I think the fact I was sexually abused (in the standard definition even) is one of the reasons I know with out a doubt MGM and FGM are sexual abuse. I think denial/social conditioning and a lack of understanding of the normal male genitalia (and maybe empathy for the infant boys) are the only things keeping logical people from seeing MGM as abuse.
ITA: as a matter of fact, I think that it actually meets the definition of rape in many states, including penetration, restraint and non consent.

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#106 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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omg i just could not be around her.

she made her little boy pay for her ignorance in having a c/s??? just fraking great. omg!!! i think i am going to be sick.
I agree completely. That is horrifying, abusive, and there is no way that I could ever speak to her again. Ever.
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#107 of 110 Old 05-22-2008, 11:58 PM
 
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I don't know that i would end a relationship, but it would probably die, if that makes sense. I am sorry about your sister, Nay. If you do contact her again, keep an eye out for ppd. Sounds like she was really traumatized by her c-section and is just really out of touch with reality if it made sense to her to inflict pain on her newborn.


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#108 of 110 Old 05-23-2008, 12:22 AM
 
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: I can't believe I'm actually daring to post in this thread, and totally off topic as well. Your sister's response about making her little boy pay for what happened to her is really strange. Is there any chance she's suffering from postpartum psychosis or post traumatic stress disorder? If not, than I think I'd do exactly what you did. If she is, than she needs to get some help before she harms her little one even more.

I've never had to make this choice, but I'm in Canada and I think circ is much less common here.

If I did find out that someone had circed I think whether or not I continued the relationship would depend on the circumstances. If I'd tried to educate them and they ignored it, as some previous posters have had happened, I don't think our relationship would survive. If they'd circed out of ignorance, I think I would do my best to educate them, in the hopes that they wouldn't harm their next son in the same way.

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#109 of 110 Old 05-23-2008, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, to be perfectly honest, my sister is nearly 1,000 miles away, plus 5 years younger, plus we see many things differently (I'm atheist, she's hardcore Christian, for example). We don't talk that often. Her pregnancy was doing it's part to bring us closer together, but it was also letting me see a side of her that I hadn't noticed before. As you can guess, that side wasn't entirely positive.

I doubt I'll have any reason to talk to her before Labor Day, when I'll probably fly home to see my entire family. If she had not circumcised, then perhaps our relationship would have continued to improve. But as things stand now, we are just two very different people.


Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#110 of 110 Old 06-01-2008, 11:43 PM
 
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I had a friend, a neighbor, who has two cut boys and she was due three weeks before me. Even before she was pregnant she asked about e and i laid it all out for her and when she found out she was having a boy she and her husband wanted all kinds of info and I thought that i got them on the right track, well when she went into have him i didn't hear from her so I Knew what had happened. She won't change him in front of me and i am glad it makes me so sick. She said that in the end that they had to do it because they didn't want the boys to think they had played favortites and they all went through it and are fine so he should toouke:
We are no longer talking:

Living DAIRY AND GLUTEN FREE for my SPD and Aspergers Little Man.
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