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-   The Case Against Circumcision (http://www.mothering.com/forum/44-case-against-circumcision/)
-   -   Pressure By Doctors To Circ (http://www.mothering.com/forum/44-case-against-circumcision/901988-pressure-doctors-circ.html)

mommy_mel 05-22-2008 12:40 AM

Hi,I am new here and I was just curious,did anyone else feel pressure from their Ob/gyn or pediatrician to circumcise their son? My mom was an intactivist mom ahead of her time and she refused to have any of my brothers cut. She had witnessed her nephew being circumcised and vowed it would never happen to her child. She showed me all the information and made me promise not to allow it to happen to my son. As soon as the ultrasound said I was having a boy,the nurses and my Ob asked me to sign papers to allow him to be circed. I refused. They tried to tell me horror stories about how he would get constant infections,probably end up having to have an "emergency"circumsision,his future wife would be more likely to have cancer,it would be harder for him to "have relations",etc. They tried at every visit to pressure me and did so up until his one month checkup and I actually switched doctors because of this. Almost four years later,we have not had one problem with infection. Now my niece is pregnant and I showed her the pictures of the circumsision being performed and she vows to never put her son through that. The thing is,they tell her all the horror stories as well. Is there any site that I could print out info for her to take to her doctor so they will stop scaring her? Sorry if this post was rambling and didn't make sense.

ChristaN 05-22-2008 12:51 AM

Honestly, I'd be inclined to report any medical professional who did that to their state medical board for soliciting unneccesary surgery. Since the AAP says that it is the parents' choice and it is a cosmetic or personal choice, they really have no business telling you otherwise. Can you direct your niece toward a OB office that is less likely to behave in that manner or a midwife or even a GP?

Fellow Traveler 05-22-2008 01:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy_mel View Post
Hi,I am new here and I was just curious,did anyone else feel pressure from their Ob/gyn or pediatrician to circumcise their son? My mom was an intactivist mom ahead of her time and she refused to have any of my brothers cut. She had witnessed her nephew being circumcised and vowed it would never happen to her child. She showed me all the information and made me promise not to allow it to happen to my son. As soon as the ultrasound said I was having a boy,the nurses and my Ob asked me to sign papers to allow him to be circed. I refused. They tried to tell me horror stories about how he would get constant infections,probably end up having to have an "emergency"circumsision,his future wife would be more likely to have cancer,it would be harder for him to "have relations",etc. They tried at every visit to pressure me and did so up until his one month checkup and I actually switched doctors because of this. Almost four years later,we have not had one problem with infection. Now my niece is pregnant and I showed her the pictures of the circumsision being performed and she vows to never put her son through that. The thing is,they tell her all the horror stories as well. Is there any site that I could print out info for her to take to her doctor so they will stop scaring her? Sorry if this post was rambling and didn't make sense.
Boy I think that actions like that defiantly require a complaint it was completely out of line. There are plenty of sites you could use: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp
http://www.circumstitions.com/Itsaboy.html
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/

I am sure there are some more that I am not thinking of but perhaps that will get you started. You might want to have her ask the Dr if there are some many problems why are most Europeans, Asians, South Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, ect... intact and just fine.

ETA: Welcome To the board.

Greg B 05-22-2008 07:31 AM

Oh yes, we certainly did. My DW's OB/GYN asked about it several times at pre birth office visits, and we said no. Seemed like it was all resolved.

Then, at the actual birth, just after I had cut the umbilical cord, he began pressuring us big time. My wife was so out of it, she does not even remember, and if I had not been there, probably would have succumed to his pressure. He walked back and forth, tone of voice, posture, practically pleading with me to change my mind. I beleive many people would have changed thier mind under his assault.

Very unprofessional.

Regards

tessie 05-22-2008 07:53 AM

Tell him to sod off.

Very few boys in the UK are circ'd. It usually only happens for religious or medical reasons. I'm pretty sure the majority of the male population aren't harbouring penile infections. Circumcision is no substitute for soap and water.

catholic74 05-22-2008 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tessie View Post
Tell him to sod off.

Very few boys in the UK are circ'd. It usually only happens for religious or medical reasons. I'm pretty sure the majority of the male population aren't harbouring penile infections. Circumcision is no substitute for soap and water.



LOL!:Amen to that!!!

perspective 05-22-2008 11:49 AM

Every time I hear stories like this, I imagine myself being in the parents place and giving the doctors a lecture on what the heck they are talking about and then going back home and reporting them to their supervisors along with AP info.

Mrs-Mama 05-22-2008 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
Honestly, I'd be inclined to report any medical professional who did that to their state medical board for soliciting unneccesary surgery. Since the AAP says that it is the parents' choice and it is a cosmetic or personal choice, they really have no business telling you otherwise. Can you direct your niece toward a OB office that is less likely to behave in that manner or a midwife or even a GP?


We were not pressured at all. I didn't like the whole "oh and here's the consent form for his circ" attitude, but once we said no, the doctors said, "oh good for you. you know, there's really no reason to do it". If only they would tell parents that before.

eclipse 05-22-2008 02:18 PM

I never had any pressure beyond the "are you planning to circ?" question - which, ftr, I imagine is pressure enough for some parents who don't really know any different.

rik8144 05-22-2008 04:46 PM

Nope, no pressure. They asked when I got there I said no and they took the circ paper out of the stack to sign. Then when my OB came for my follow up before discharge, she asked if we were circing and I said no. She said 'see ya in 6 weeks then!'
The End!

tennisdude23 05-22-2008 05:42 PM

Yeah, this is very unprofessional. I would report them, given the complete lack of professional help and violation of AAP guidelines! Is your relative using the same pediatricians? Is this in rural Kentucky or something? Because stories like yours are not the norm, thankfully. Most doctors won't pressure you either way and good job for switching! They may ask, but will remain neutral. Seriously, you think that in 2008, we would not have to deal with such crap! I'm intact by the way; so good job on your choice. How is the new doctor?

perspective 05-22-2008 05:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisdude23 View Post
Yeah, this is very unprofessional. I would report them! Is your relative using the same pediatricians? Is this in rural Kentucky or something? Because stories like yours are not the norm, thankfully. Most doctors won't pressure you either way! They may ask, but will remain neutral. Seriously, you think that in 2008, we would not have to deal with such crap! I'm intact by the way; so good job on your choice.
Really they should not be asking at all. There should be no form in the default packet of papers for parents to sign. Its a cosmetic surgery, and should not be mentioned or brought up in ANY way unless the parents specifically ask about it. (well personally I think it should be illegal to perform on infants, but you know what I mean)

amy9798 05-22-2008 05:49 PM

I was very worried about it beforehand but things were fine in the hospital. Not one person mentioned it until my OB was discharging us. She was on her way out the door and then turned around and said, Oh wait- are you wanting to have him circumcised?" We said "No way!" and she smiled and looked so relieved and said "Great decision!".

At the hospital where my cousin had her baby they have big boards on the wall in each postpartum room with a bunch of squares with thing that need to happen and boxes to check off when they were done (hearing test, newborn pictures, etc.) and one of the squares said "Circumcision" with a picture of a baby in blue blanket or something like that. It very much implied that circumcision was a given

tennisdude23 05-22-2008 06:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
Really they should not be asking at all. There should be no form in the default packet of papers for parents to sign. Its a cosmetic surgery, and should not be mentioned or brought up in ANY way unless the parents specifically ask about it. (well personally I think it should be illegal to perform on infants, but you know what I mean)
Oh, yeah, I totally agree. The fact that it's even asked is totally ridiculous, but i guess prefer having the doctor ask it in a neutral manner than have him/her pressure the parents to circ.

phdmama06 05-22-2008 07:00 PM

Thankfully we didn't have any pressure from the OB or pediatrician. The OB asked me the day after delivery if I wanted to circ, I said no, and he said nothing more about it.

It makes me sad that so many doctors try to pressure people into it.

mommy_mel 05-23-2008 01:47 AM

Thanks for the welcome all. We do live in rural Kentucky. There are only one group of doctors that come to our town. We can drive to a larger area that is about 40 minutes away but at the time I was unable to make the trip so I used the local health clinic and my niece does the same. She is six and a half months along so she doesn't want to switch doctors. I begged her to let me just drive her to another doctor when she first got pregnant but she wouldn't listen. Thankfully I went in prepared but a lot of moms really believe they are doing what is healthiest for thier child. I like going to her appointments with her and preaching against circumcision to the patients. There has been a few that changed their mind. A lot of them get medical cards and the doctors know they can charge them quite a bit. I found a great pediatrician in my town that is great with my son and I made my wishes clear to her on the first visit(that she is not to retract his foreskin). She never has and she has told all her nurses that they are not to do so either. I am glad other people share my views that it should be illegal. I don't think a parent should even have the right to decide that. When people have females circumcised they call it mutilation but when it's males they call it a personal choice.

Bea 05-23-2008 03:03 AM

My OBGYN is also mine and my son's Dr.

We didn't know his sex before he was born but circ was never a consideration. I'm from the UK and my husband is American and circ'd. We talked about circ a long time ago when we were dating and he was of the usual US male opinion, that being, to circ any male child of his.

We talked about it, I gave my UK based perspective on it (ie it was abhorrent/weird/a mutilation/WHY???) and he researched it, having never given it (like most US males) a second thought. Part of me was sorry he did.

The poor bloke He went through a really difficult period of mourning and anger about what was done to him as an infant. I really felt for him.

So my OBGYN asked, if the baby was a boy, whether we were planning to circ. I said no and added that anyone who came near the baby's penis with a scalpel (if it had one ) better be prepepared for violence from my husband. She said 'Thank goodness for that" and marked the chart.

I've never mentioned the "do not retract" mantra even once, she's a well informed Dr. The only time she's touched my sons penis in all his well baby visits was once when she removed his diaper to check his testis and he'd pooped.

She grabbed a box of wipes, a clean diaper and changed him for me!

liliesandliars 05-23-2008 03:05 AM

I don't remember ever receiving any pressure from doctors - mine or my son's - to circ. The only pressure I ever got was from my family members and acquaintances. I live in Houston, Texas, if that makes any difference.

My son spent some time in the NICU after birth. After a fresh wave of horror stories from my family, I asked the NICU doctor what he thought about circ. He cocked his eyebrow at me and said, "Why? Don't worry about that. He doesn't need it." And then went on to talk about something else, basically dismissing my question. I couldn't have been happier.

Magali 05-23-2008 05:30 AM

My doc asked me what my plans were about circ. I said I would not do it. She said "Good, I tell parents not to do it."

leighi123 05-23-2008 05:31 AM

At the hospital, at least 5 people asked if I wanted ds circ'd - I said no each time but they kept asking.

Honestly, I didnt know much about it then, had never reasearched it, and didnt find out we were having a boy until he was born - I said 'no' because it just gave me a bad feeling, and I didnt want him to be hurt - and I am SO GLAD I trusted my instinct- I would have been tramitized if I had eneded up doing that to him and I dont understand how people can make that choice

Sharlla 05-23-2008 05:47 AM

No pressures from either of mine, all the Drs and nurses said I was making the right choice and that there was no reason for it.

layla983 05-23-2008 05:53 AM

People in the actual hospital praised us actually. The nursery supervisor told our ped we were "holding off" on the circ, because he came in to tell us he didn't do them so if we wanted it done later we'd have to find another doctor. He was very happy when I explained we weren't holding off, we were againist it. We were asked at check in once for the paperwork, then a nurse who brought him back to us after the ped saw him the first time asked if we were going to do it because she was suppose to go over instructions with us if we were. But that was really it...at least at the hospital. I was paranoid going in because on our tour, the same nurse who told our ped we were "holding off" showed us around & insisted on showing us where they strap the boys down for their circs. She was obviously pro-circ, but she never had any interaction with us when we had DS. But nurses came & told us that was great & told us how they left their sons intact as well. Made us feel even better considering we live in a high circ area.

Now, the OB's office was different.

As soon as I found out it was a boy, they handed us a bill. Had to be pre-paid. I called & said we didn't want it done, so not to bill us like the paperwork said we'd be billed. The lady on the phone told me to "think it over" & I got the bills. Again, I called & told them not to send them. About 2 weeks later I get ANOTHER letter saying that if I didn't pay my late payment & current payment, they'd want everything paid in advance before seeing me for anything, even my regular OB visits. After a day on the phone & calling several people in that building, I got it taken care of.

A doctor also mentioned it to us, even though it was marked in our chart that it wasn't getting done. When we told the midwife to correct our chart (we were asked when they confirmed my pregnancy, I said we weren't sure because I was still talking to DH about it, but they went ahead & marked circ anyway), she obviously cringed. She also rolled her eyes when she realized I had changed DH's mind (DH said something to that effect, I forget what though) & if she wasn't in a hurry I think she would have given me a lecture about how the dad should choose since he has a penis & I don't.

And my personal favorite circ comment EVER? Right after DS was born, after 24 hours of labor, 3 hours of pushing & about 3 minutes away from an emergency c-section if he hadn't come when he did, I hadn't even got to hold DS yet, the doctor is stiching me up, & he asked "So...you want him circ'ed?" I told him no, then he said he remembered that was in my chart. He then said, "I figured if I had to stay here all night for you, I'd go ahead & do it myself instead of letting the weekend on call OB do it so I could get paid for it." That left me pretty speechless.

glongley 05-23-2008 12:51 PM

Please, anybody here who posted a story about inappropriate pressure to circumcise (even having circumcision consent forms in the standard stack given to parents), I hope you will write (or have already written!) a letter of complaint to the physician, nurse, or facility involved. Patient satisfaction (and the income that flows from it) is the most important thing to hospitals, and your criticisms will not go unnoticed. I know of a lady locally who wrote her hospital about the pressures she had received and they made all kinds of changes in their policies from it. Tell them what you feel they should or should not be doing/saying - you never know what changes you might produce! If you don't write, they'll just continue with their unthinking behavior.

When you write, it is always helpful to use a "sandwich" approach - start out with something nice to say about their care/etc, then give the criticism, then end with something nice again. They'll listen better.

Gillian

purplestraws 05-23-2008 01:19 PM

We weren't pressured to circ our son, but we were asked about a million times. I seriously think that we were asked 10 times, even after they had put it on his chart that he was not to be circ'd. It was really pretty ridiculous...

DocsNemesis 05-23-2008 01:26 PM

I would sooo report that. That's just ridiculous.

I was on the other end-my OB NEVER asked and I hadnt even thought about it. In fact, I dont think my OB did them (for all I know, he might have been intact himself and this was his method of discouraging it? Who knows) and I wasnt asked until I was in labor, by the nurse at the hospital. I said sure, she said its not covered by insurance, and I said ok, nevermind. LOL He still never asked me during, after, even at the week checkup. I literally never heard him mention it!

Yulia_R 05-23-2008 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
Honestly, I'd be inclined to report any medical professional who did that to their state medical board for soliciting unneccesary surgery. Since the AAP says that it is the parents' choice and it is a cosmetic or personal choice, they really have no business telling you otherwise.
I agree 100%

also make sure you read this
A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=129378

Congrats on your upcoming baby boy!!!!

copslass 05-24-2008 12:45 AM

After being stupid enough to agree to a hospital birth against our common sense, and after our newborn babe had a pneumothorax due to the aggressive resucitationr land lan on the counter stating "NO CIRC"
While waiting for our baby to be transferred across town, didn't know if he would even LIVE , we were asked REPEAPet dly if we wanted his penis cut! WTF! 4 or 5 times the questio n was presented!!!

Priorities in US birth?! With our dismal mortality rates?
Con mer messing up, I'm sure the message still gets through...

Mo dtor informed me sh adjusted my sig, not sur what it will be,

copslass 05-24-2008 12:47 AM

Thanks, Moniter!

Yulia_R 05-24-2008 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
Every time I hear stories like this, I imagine myself being in the parents place and giving the doctors a lecture on what the heck they are talking about and then going back home and reporting them to their supervisors along with AP info.
keep that spirit when you ARE a parent

thixle 05-24-2008 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisdude23 View Post
Yeah, this is very unprofessional. I would report them, given the complete lack of professional help and violation of AAP guidelines! Is your relative using the same pediatricians? Is this in rural Kentucky or something? Because stories like yours are not the norm, thankfully. Most doctors won't pressure you either way and good job for switching! They may ask, but will remain neutral. Seriously, you think that in 2008, we would not have to deal with such crap! I'm intact by the way; so good job on your choice. How is the new doctor?
heh. I'm in a not-so-rural part of KY and... I gave birth to a DAUGHTER in the only hospital for 25 miles... and they still gave me a Circumcision Release Form in with all the standard birth certificate/picture order form package. : No one said anything about it while I was pregnant.
At the hospital (midwife care) 25 miles away, they asked me on the first visit "If the baby is a boy, do you want him circumcised." ::: DH and I said no at the same time, the MW kind of wiggled, and went to the next question-- still don't know if it was a good wiggle or a bad wiggle.


It should be illegal. illegal. illegal.


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