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Old 05-25-2008, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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HI guys,

I'm in the process of convincing my DH not to tend to circumcision. He sure wouldn't do it against my will, but he just thinks it is normal and should be done.

Our son is due September 10th and I feel strongly that I do not want my son to get circumsized.

I have read plenty of websites and being from Europe it is a weird idea anyway to cut something off - but I need websites that DH cannot declare as biased against circumcision to actually look at them.

Do you have links or resources that are purely scientific studies, recommendations etc?

Thanks so much for your help...
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:55 PM
 
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Anything from cirp.org; please do the research on there and yes don't cut your son; i'm an intact american and i feel great about my foreskin; it's normal in america not to be cut these days (yes, i have seen uncut guys my age in the locker room and stuff); your dh is about 30 years behind times, no offense.

Circumcision is pointless and perhaps even sexually damaging. Why would you cut off a part of your son's penis without his consent???? Please, this should be your son's decision, it's his penis, not yours, not dhs. Maybe the consent argument would be different if this surgery would be beneficial in some highly measurable way, but it's not, it's pointless and cosmetic. Please, look at my previous posts for more info!
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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If you think the pain angle will help persuade him, this NIH study may be helpful:

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/cochrane/Br...BRADYFRYER.HTM
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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If he wants to he can read the circumcision position statements of the major medical organization of the US, UK, Canada, and Australia - NONE of which recommend routine neonatal circumcision.
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/

There is a briefer version of the excerpted conclusions of the above medical organization statements here:
http://www.circumcision.org/position.htm

The issue is not just "is there any good medical reason to do this to our son?", its also important for him to consider "what is the foreskin there for, and how might its removal impact our son?" not to mention "what ethical considerations does circumcision of newborn babies raise?"

So have him read some on the foreskin and its function, circumcision complications, and the ethics of circumcision. For example:
http://www.coloradonocirc.org/files/...Physiology.pdf
http://www.cirp.org/library/complica...lliams-kapila/
https://www.cpsbc.ca/cps/physician_r...ual/malecircum

These links are mostly to sites that are against circumcision, but the material is from medical journal articles.

Gillian
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:29 PM
 
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http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp

If there is something specific just ask; or check the cirp.org site listed in previous posts.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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I have been collecting links to studies supporting intactivism here's what I have so far

http://www.cirp.org/news/doctorsguid...tch2006-08-17/
Study of African countries in 2003-2005 shows HIV infection rates not necessarily lower in areas where circumcision is prevalent.

"HIV prevalence was markedly lower among circumcised than uncircumcised men only in Kenya (11.5% among uncircumcised men vs. 3.1% among circumcised men). A small protective effect of male circumcision was also seen in Burkina Faso (2.9% vs. 1.7%, respectively) and Uganda (5.5% vs. 3.7%).

In the other countries, there was either no difference in HIV rates between circumcised and uncircumcised men or circumcised men were more likely to be HIV-positive than uncircumcised men. For example, in Lesotho, HIV was seen in 23.4% of circumcised men compared to 15.4% of uncircumcised men.

"If anything, the correlation [between circumcision and HIV infection] goes the other way," in most of the countries studied, Dr. Mishra said during his presentation on August 15th."

http://www.cirp.org/news/iht2007-03-06/
Procedure may put women at a higher risk of infection.

"Among 70 men with HIV who underwent circumcision, 11 of their female partners became infected with the virus in the month after the surgery. In contrast, only four partners of 54 uncircumcised men with HIV in the control group caught the virus — nearly half the rate, early results showed."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0620085239.htm
Links prostitution with HIV infection, not circumcision

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en..._uids=17334373
Langerhans cells a natural barrier to HIV transmission

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v13/n3/abs/nm1541.html
Langerin found in Langerhans cells is a natural barrier to HIV transmission




Sexual Function

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/69318.php
"This study suggests that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in a significant number of men, and the authors suggest that it may be due to loss of nerve endings in the removed skin."

Study shows circed penis is less sensitive
http://www.urotoday.com/58/browse_ca...ult_penis.html

Risks

Infection
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum


Circ may cause UTI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus

HPV
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus

Penile Cancer on circumcision scar
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t_uids=3944860
http://www.ajsp.com/pt/re/ajsp/abstr...195629!8091!-1


STDs

No link found with circumcision and prevention of STDs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;16925903
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/dave1/
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:51 PM
 
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Both the AAP statemetn and the canadian pediatric site state one very important fact that may convince dh...
circumcision is not medically necessary.... if he needs more than that, then perhaps put the ball in his court and have him come up with the reason why you would need to do something painful and risky that is not medically necessary...

HTH's,

Jessica

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:19 AM
 
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http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm
The Canadian Pediatric Societies parent info page.

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm
CPS's site meant for Drs (it's a very dry read.)

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:26 PM
 
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I'd show him the video as well. Make him watch the whole thing-watch it with him if you can, even if that means bawling your eyes out. Maybe seeing how much it affects you would help. You could also show him before and after pics. A freshly circumcised infant penis is NOT pretty. Id also point out that it hurts, badly, and continues to hurt for weeks/months after. Tell him he'll be getting a lot less sleep and you might not be able to breastfeed (its a known issue-circing can lead to breastfeeding problems). Newborns cry enough without help-why make your lives more stressful!

Of course, there are lots of other excellent reasons to NOT circ, but if you try taking that approach first he might be like oh...I dont want to not get any sleep or see you crying or see him in such pain...

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:20 PM
 
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Think of it this way: You know you don't want to do it because you know it's not ethically or logically a way to improve his quality of life... far opposite. How do you think he would feel knowing you knew better but caved to feed into his father's insecurities? Now look at the positive light you can bring to him when he's say, 8 or 9, when you tell him what circumcision is, what it involves and how you didn't want a doctor to unnecessarily mutilate his penis (because you know it should up to the owner of the penis to make that decision when an adult)? It's like the mama here who has intact twin boys and at 8 learned the difference between them and their cut daddy (they thought he just always retracted his foreskin). They said "But daddy's missing the best part!". He'd think it's INSANE to want to chose to do to yourself as an adult... so why would you force that on to a human being??????
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:52 PM
 
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Not biased? Is that code for information I'd rather not hear?
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the links!

Well, obviously there are websites that do not support the procedure - hence every proponent would consider it to be biased.

I could find articles that are purely scientific and look at the issue from a neutral point of view and those articles show that there is no real medical benefit from having it done. Such articles are a great help to convince my husband, who only knew the rumor that it was better for hygiene and so on - bombarding him with information from anti-websites won't make a case for him, which I understand.
I'm anti circ, and he respects the choice. He read some of the findings and understands that I cannot accept circ's just because it's done and most people do it (which isn't true). It was some piece of work, but it worked out to my advantage
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