Do you guys think male circ will ever be illegal? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-18-2008, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ulla View Post
No, because it would be unconstitutional. It's a First Amendment Rights issue.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Judaism and Islam are mainstream religions in the U.S.
And for the record, I am a Christian mom who does not circ.

But I will do what I can to protect the religious freedom of others.

I also have referred people to places to talk with others in religions that do circ that chose not too. But I will not step on their religious freedoms.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 08-18-2008, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by My*Scorpio View Post
I think male RIC will likely become illegal in the US during our childrens' lifetime. I think there will probably be a religious exemption.
This would be fine with me.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 08-18-2008, 01:01 PM
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So the 1st ammendment makes banning circumcision illegal and the 14th makes it illegal to not offer the same protection to boys.Which way will this go?Will the FGM ban be struck down based on the 1st/14th ammendments or will we ignore the constitution and protect children?
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:01 PM
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I disagree with this statement.

My children are born into Christianity. As they grow, that may change but they are born into the family of Christ until they choose to disassosiate with that.

They are not magically spiritual at age 18. They are born spiritual beings.

Not to start a religion discassion here, but just like you said they perhaps are (if parents chose to force their personal beliefs on them) till they are old enough to decide for themselves. Unfortunately, permanent body modification while CAN be done when they are 18 (if they wish so), can NOT be undone when performed on a newborn (if he decides later on that given religion is not for him).
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:24 PM
 
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I sincerely hope it will be quietly made illegal because of the 14th amendment. It is not at all right for girls' genitals to be protected while boys' are not... Clinton had her opportunity when she fought so hard to get the 1996 FGM law passed... and then they ignored the boys. Wonder if they thought, "oh, well as soon as it is made illegal for females the males will have to be protected." Or did they think about the boys at all? Did they say, "oh, well, that's different. Male circ's are cleaner and have medical benifit."

And I see no reason why a minor child should be forced to have cosmetic genital surgery for a religion. I'm pretty sure a minor can't get tattooed (maybe parental consent clauses at 16) before 18 nationwide. I'm also pretty sure several religions/cultures do tattoo as a right of passage for minor children. Yet, they can't have their child tattooed in the US because it is illegal to tattoo a child... nothing at all to do with religion. Kid just has to wait until age of consent. Ta-da.

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:34 PM
 
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I'm writing my senators right now. I may borrow a turn of phrase or two from you very articulate mamas. I hope you don't mind.

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Old 08-18-2008, 01:47 PM
 
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I 100% hope it will be illegal within my lifetime, but I think it's more realistic to say it will be within my son's lifetime. I agree with the others who said that religious freedom ends where another persons bodily rights begin

Stephanie ~ Mama to Avery (7/07) & Iona (3/10)
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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I'm actually becoming afraid that the rates may go up for a while due to the recent studies about HIV. What do you guys think?
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:44 PM
 
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I hope it will become illegal.

Obama seems an open-minded guy, maybe he will look into it.

Decluttering 500/2010
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I certainly hope not!

I'd love to see insurance companies no longer paying for the procedure. I'd love to see it become so rare that you won't have every OB and pediatrician comfortable doing them. But, for the sake of religious freedom, I wouldn't want to see circ become illegal.
Circucision is out of pocket in canada (ontario anyway). Way to many people still fork over $350 and thier babies to be mutilated.

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Old 08-18-2008, 02:54 PM
 
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I agree with the others who said that religious freedom ends where another persons bodily rights begin
Absolutely and painfully and sexually altering a baby's genitalia is wrong and a violation no matter what the excuse for doing so is. Baby girls are protected here and boys should be too, period.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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In sense I don't think circ will stop until some people get into peer groups surrounding by intact peers and that will make them to stop circing to match peers or fear of locker room syndrome and more boys left intact lesser chance intact fathers will circ their kids and that will lead the doctors to 'have to 'wake up ' and learn how better & benefical that a foreskin is when they learn foreskin is 'real benefical they will find a better way to treat it and stop performing the circumcision because why take away something beneficial without a 'medical need that 'truly can not be treated without removing it -then I agree human rights should trump over what anyone believes and after this one lady told me of something that made me think why do we turn our faith into believing things will 'connect us to whatever we belive when we were already connected to this world as soon as we were concieved!
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:36 PM
 
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Yes, but with religious exception.

Casey
Mama to DS 2/22/06 and DS 3/27/09 :
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:16 PM
 
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What I don't like are those gutless parents who say they want circumcision made illegal so they don't have to keep on doing it. You know the types... the sheep that follow the peer pressure. They irritate me.

If you don't want to do it, just say 'NO!'!

Yes, I'd like to see circumcision made illegal, but I'd like it to be a 'moot point' thing because they already realize it's unethical (human rights violation) to do it, so let's put it in the law books for those who just don't get it. KWIM?

I'm w/ the PP who say it should be made illegal even for religious reasons, since it's a permanent physical alteration (to say the least!) that can't be reversed.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:10 PM
 
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I hope it is. I think that there should be only be exceptions for a medical reason. I think you have the right to practice your religion freely until your religious practice harms another person.
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Old 08-19-2008, 03:12 AM
 
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I hope so, but I have my doubts. Maybe in 50 years or so. It really depends. Though much as I want it to be illegal, agree with those who just say they would rather see it become completely obsolete and unethical, as banning it would likely lead to people to become more defensive.

Of course, I'm only talking about on infants here. Adults should absolutely have the choice.

I really don't get how one's religious rights extends to the genital mutilation of another's body. A child is just the child of religious parents, they have not made up their own mind about the religion. I can't think of any other circumstances in which it's acceptable to modify another's body for your own religious beliefs. If I had a religion where I was taught to injure non-believers, or even physically abuse my own children, I really can't see that being legal at all, it would not be protected under freedom of religion.

I think people are too ashamed of seeming racist or intolerant by telling religious people their customs should not be done. However, I think in this case it's justified. It's not going against the whole religion, just one of their practices. Sometimes traditions need to be let go.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:52 AM
 
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I'm hopeful that in my lifetime it will be made illegal. I'm 25. So ya--50 years. Everyone keep working on mgmbill.org!! I got a letter from the esteemed governator a few days ago, thanking me for my opinion on RIC. The letter was pretty positive, actually.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:54 AM
 
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p.s. I'm hoping for a law with no religious exemptions, but if a law with religious exemptions is the best we can do, it's far better than what we have now.
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