What do you do when your DH is determined that son will be circ'd? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My DH is circumcised and he is determined that our son will be.

Everyone on both sides of our families is strongly pro-circ... but me.

What do you do? He isn't interested in looking at any anti-circ information- at all.
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#2 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:21 PM
 
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Can he tell you why he's pro-circ?

Can you pick a pediatrician who doesn't perform routine infant circumcisions?

My attitude would be that if you don't want to research and at least look at the information, then you don't get to have a say in making the choice for surgery, but I don't know what your relationship with your husband is like.
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#3 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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You protect your innocent son from unnecessary mutilation. You say "over my dead body!". It is NOT happening and that's all their is to it. He can choose to do it himself, if he wants, when he's an adult.

If worse comes to worse -- and an absolute last resort -- threaten to leave him w/ the child if he attempts to take him to be circumcised.

I don't mean to scare you and this threat gets them to back off, but I sure would have contempt towards a spouse who would take our child behind my back, and have him permanently altered to appease his insecurities. Intact is the default!
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#4 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I'm not prepared to divorce him over this. I have 16 month old twins and I think it would be grossly unfair to all my kids if I do that. He could try to divorce me, but in my state breastfeeding mothers ALWAYS get custody. Also, I believe I need to sign a consent form for it so I don't think he can take him behind my back. He can just be a big jerk to me about it.

He wants it done because he is circumcized. That's it. He thinks it's the right thing to do. I think he's wrong. I want to leave my baby boy just as he is.

I'm planning on talking to my midwife about it and seeing if she'll talk to him. I believe in my DH and I being equal parents to our kids... he sure is a hands on dad to his girls. He's a fantastic father... he just has this old fashioned idea, I guess. I'm hoping someone else has gone through this and can help me.
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#5 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:31 PM
 
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It seems he's uneducated on the issue. There's lots of valuable sources on circumcision, why it's wrong and the benefits of the foreskin. Has he checked out the Intact.ca actual circumcision video? THIS is the absolute mutilation and torture HIS son (your son, too) will go through:


http://www.intact.ca/
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#6 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You gave me an idea.

I think I might tell him that there is no possiblity that I will go along with it unless he has the manhood (pun intended) to see what he wants to do to his precious son.
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#7 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:39 PM
 
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That can work and often does ("You book the appointment, you watch it being done, you clean his fresh bloody circumcised penis"). But if he sees it being done and realizes the savageness of it all, your son still paid the price.

Watching the Intact.ca video gives him an idea (turn up the speakers LOUD, do not let him turn it off 'til the end... because YOUR SON doesn't have the option when HE'S the one strapped down being literally skinned alive!).

I would suggest using humour to change his mind. I've heard soooo many great things about "Penn & Teller's Bulls**t!" circumcision episode.

edit: If you click on my signature link, you'll see a very indepth (non-gory) video on the BENEFITS of the foreskin and why this is the smart thing to do. Yes, he'll feel defensive because his son will have all the benefits he didn't, BUT... this is about the best thing for your son! And as you already know, it's not fair to punish your son because of his parents ignorance. And if he's the great father you say he is (and I'm not doubting you at all), he'll realize that, too, and put his son's need FIRST.
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#8 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's what I'm saying.

I have no intent whatsoever in going along with it. I'm hoping if he watches the videos and learns about it he will make the sane and logical choice. Before we knew what we were having I said that I wanted nothing to do with it... but when I saw his little peepee on the ultrasound the first thing I thought was how I have to protect that little organ.

Right now he wants to remain blissfully ignorant on the topic.
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#9 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by **Cat** View Post
That's what I'm saying.

I have no intent whatsoever in going along with it. I'm hoping if he watches the videos and learns about it he will make the sane and logical choice. Before we knew what we were having I said that I wanted nothing to do with it... but when I saw his little peepee on the ultrasound the first thing I thought was how I have to protect that little organ.

Right now he wants to remain blissfully ignorant on the topic.
And that's totally common for a guy to feel that way. The "don't rock the boat" (appeasement) scenario is what keeps the vicious chain of abuse going. And a zillion kudos to you for your motherly instinct to kick to want to protect him. It's what parents are suppose to do. But sadly, some parents don't see it that way for circumcision. So we're all proud of you for thinking twice about the issue and wanting to protect him!!! :


Here's a link for you:

http://www.sexasanatureintendedit.com/
Top Ten (10) Ways Circumcised Male Sex Hurts Women

I don't know if you know this or not, but I'm a 33-year-old happily intact male and I wouldn't trade for my foreskin for anything in the world.
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#10 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the information!

I am going to make him look at that stuff. He really is a wonderful father- honestly. He was just so awesome with our twins and I believe in him. I just feel like he's wrong on this issue, and clearly you agree.

Well, it's late here and I'm exhausted. Thanks again, sir! I hope you have a wonderful night and know you may have saved another little boy's penis.
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#11 of 47 Old 10-07-2008, 11:54 PM
 
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Have a super night. Get some rest. You most deserve it, even without the circ fight. And I don't think it will be much of a fight at all. Glad you're with us.

P.S. Who knows... maybe a year from now, you'll even have an anti-circ bumper sticker on your car. A lot of circ'd DH converts here. Like intact penises, the more the merrier.
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#12 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 12:02 AM
 
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Here's what I think you do. It's not easy, but it's what you need to do if you want your son intact.

You say no, I'm not going to allow our child to be cut. Then you tell your OB that you don't want circ, and you do not sign consent forms in the hospital. You tell the nurses, etc. that you refuse circ.


I think in terms of dealing with your DH, you still let him express his feelings, while holding your ground that you will not allow it to happen. Let him ask questions, etc. but you just keep saying no, over and over and over and over....... and its going to be up to you to be strong.

You need to take the power of that decision.

My first two sons are circed because I was not strong enough and didn't believe it strongly enough to go alone on the decision and make my way happen. Now with our 3rd, DH is onboard.

Also, focus on your goal. DH does not have to agree circ is bad. All he needs to accept is that your son will be just fine with all his parts, and it's OK to have a foreskin.

Good luck! Please feel free to PM if you want to chat.

(My husband just looked over my shoulder at the computer and then said "I still think you're wrong about it, but I'm willing to do what you want." We're having our 3rd son tomorrow! And he will be intact. Your DH doesn't have to agree, he just needs to go along for the ride.)
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#13 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 01:24 AM
 
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I would talk with your doctor beforehand, let them know you do not consent in advance. Let them know that there is a difference of opinion, but that no matter what, you do not consent. Possibly have it notorized and placed in your birthing plan or file. I don't believe they can do it behind your back, and the Dr. will be prepared for any mishapps or missinformation given.
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#14 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:08 AM
 
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over my dead body, and mean it. seriously.
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#15 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:38 AM
 
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I strongly second the recommendation to watch the Pen & Teller BS episode with him. It's very, very entertaining and funny. That is absolutely crucial when someone really isn't much interested in hearing about this subject. I've never seen any other video about circumcision with that quality. His feelings of "I really don't want to hear about this" will be eased because it's hilarious. But it will impart much of the information he needs to know.

You should be able to find it on YouTube, in three parts.
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#16 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:59 AM
 
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You need to separate your sons penis from his. Yeah you need to show the value in the foreskin, and that its not a throw away body part. But tell him this has nothing to do with him. Tell him, "your happy with your penis, right?" Thats not the issue, the point is that this body part DOES value, and even though he might not find any value in it, your son is a different person, and who knows what he will value.

Its great your husband is happy with his body, but its his sons right as a man to decide for himself.
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#17 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 03:40 AM
 
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You try every way you can think of to get him to understand that it isnt going to happen and why. But in the end if he still stands his ground then it is up to you as the mother to protect your child and say it isnt going to happen, over my dead body, end of story.

I believe both parents should make parenting decisions together but in this case it isnt a parenting decision it is a personal one, your sons. No one else has the right to decide what his future sex life will be like him and only him should have that choice.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#18 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all so much for the advice and words of encouragement.

I feel empowered to stand up against everyone in the family- but really the only person I give a damn about is my DH. My mother-in-law is going to have something to say about it but she also had something to say about us co-sleeping, not feeding cereal at 2 weeks , babywearing, holding, responding to cries "spoiling", etc. She ought to know that my husband doesn't go to her for mothering advice, he goes to ME.

My mother is also pro-circ but she will support me 100%... she always has.

I'm going to get him to watch the Penn and Teller thing first and take it from there. Goodness knows I watch enough of his political mumbo jumbo to humor him. Gah... if I have to watch one more "I invented the internet" anti-Obama things I'm going to scream.
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#19 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 11:35 AM
 
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I know just how you feel. DH is very pro and wont look at anything against and the only reason he is for it is bc he is Cir'd and wants his son to look like him. I have constantly asked him when was the last time he saw his own fathers penis?? When we were pregnant with out last we argued over a little bc there was a slim chance the ultra sound was wrong. I told him if he wanted it done it would not be done in the hospital and he would have to take him for the procedure. My hopes were that the insurance company wouldnt cover if it wasnt done in the hospital. I never called to find out if is was covered bc I didnt want to lie to him.
We are now pregnant with our third and we dont find out what we are having until Dec. The arguments have already started. My mother in law was yelling at me on Sunday about it. I really want a boy but am afraid of the arguments that a boy will bring on and am afraid that unless the arguments are settled we will never have a boy.

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#20 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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Cat, you've taken an approach that many mothers take and it is not likely to work in your favor. You have let your husband put you on the defensive in stead of him being the defensive party. If he wants your son circumcised, he should be the one defending his decision instead of you defending your decision.

If you present him with a video, he is likely to say "That's staged and fake." If you show him research, he's likely to say "Research can be manipulated to show anything." In essence, if he is determined, he will reject anything you show him. You can not let him put you in this position. You need to turn the tables on him. Make him show you how circumcision will benefit your son by providing 3 links from reputable sources. I can guarantee you that he will not find them and anything that he does find can be refuted. This will either settle the issue by him not finding anything or he will just tire of looking.

I would also caution you to be careful in the hospital. I have seen instances where the doctors or nurses will approach the father for the consent to circumcise when the mother rejects it. Sometimes they will strongly urge a disagreeing parent to consent. Unfortunately, this is legal. They do not have to have the consent of both parents and some unethical doctors and nurses will go behind your back to get the result they want. You have to realize that the consent form is nothing more than a way to limit their liability. It merely shows that someone with the legal right to consent has consented and not that there is agreement between the parties. It is purely for the doctor's and hospital's legal protection.



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#21 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That worries me... the idea that the hospital would do this without my consent.

It's a baby friendly hospital so do you think that means I might have more hope that this won't happen?

They can't just take him from me. I'm going to have to go wherever he goes, I guess.

I'd like to think that my husband wouldn't do that anyway. I'd like to believe he wouldn't just do that behind my back.

HeaMae-I was relieved to have twin girls. I knew I would never have to get into this fight. Now that we have a son on the way... oy. It's the only thing I'm hating about this right now.
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#22 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 12:51 PM
 
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I went through pretty much the same thing with my husband 6 years ago when we had our first son.

We argued throughout the pregnancy not knowing what we were having. I had told him that since he was the one with the penis he should decide. But when he said "of course we'll do it" it didn't sit right with me so we had low grade arguments through the whole pregnancy. He works in health care so he would tell me the horror stories about this kid or that who "had" to get it done when they were 3 or 6 or 9 or 47 or whatever. I would tell him about the kid who accidentally had his penis cut off.

I'd like to say that there was a huge moment of realization where he totally saw my point but there wasn't really.

What happened was when DS was one day old the nurse was making the rounds asking all the parents of boys if they wanted their sons cut that afternoon. DH told me she was coming and said "so what are we doing?". I started crying and said "I just think he is perfect the way he is. I don't understand why you want to hurt him." When the nurse came DH said we would not be doing it.

If I had it to do over I would just skip all the "discussion" and tell him flat out "our baby will be born perfect and will not need alteration". I don't think you will convince him based on what is GOOD and what is BAD since he is circ'd (DH can see now that being in tact is fine for our boys...I think the combination of being circ'd himself and working in healthcare had really convinced him that there must be some danger to being intact). Since you already have girls ask him how he would have felt about someone cutting on them when they were newborn.

It would be nice if in the end you could get him to see the light but I think when it comes down to it your are going to have to stand up to him on this issue and just let him be mad about it for awhile. DH now will even make comments about circ being bad (six years later) but after the decision was made we just didn't discuss it again. Make the decision and then just let him deal with it.

Good luck with everything. Its kind of crazy that it even has to be an issue, isn't it? You'd think not cutting on your new baby would just be common sense.
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#23 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's how I feel about it.

The crazy thing is, my DH is against the vaccine schedule. He didn't even want the girls getting the vitamin K shot. He was the one who stopped me from getting our daughters' ears pierced. I'm glad now... my reasons for wanting to do it were DUMB and I had some weird PPD thing going on.

But anyway- I feel like it should be the default that we don't do it. I shouldn't have to fight to keep my son from getting part of his little weewee cut off... and his daddy should want to protect it!!!
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#24 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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You gave me an idea.

I think I might tell him that there is no possiblity that I will go along with it unless he has the manhood (pun intended) to see what he wants to do to his precious son.
I did tell my husband that I would not have a baby circumcised, and that our pediatrician wouldn't do circumcisions, which kind of implied that if he wanted it done, he would have to arrange it. Although, that was during pregnancy, after the fact I would have been more protective. In any event, we did not have a boy.

Leave stuff around for him to read, send him e-mail with links to videos and stories of things that can go wrong. I agree, the default should be not to do it, not the other way around.
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#25 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 01:49 PM
 
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That's how I feel about it.

The crazy thing is, my DH is against the vaccine schedule. He didn't even want the girls getting the vitamin K shot. He was the one who stopped me from getting our daughters' ears pierced. I'm glad now... my reasons for wanting to do it were DUMB and I had some weird PPD thing going on.

But anyway- I feel like it should be the default that we don't do it. I shouldn't have to fight to keep my son from getting part of his little weewee cut off... and his daddy should want to protect it!!!
I think all of this is a good sign! It means your DH can think for himself and wouldn't do something "because the Dr said so."

If he can stop you from getting your daughter's ears pierced then you can certainly stop him from cutting parts off your son! Because he is a rational person there will come a point where he will see the light. I think if you just say "Absolutely not" to circ from birth there will come a point where he will even wonder why it was an issue. I think once you say its not happening though its important to not keep pointing out why its a good idea and trying to convince him. Let it drop. The decision is made. He'll come around in his own time. Right now his son is just an idea...once he is here and he can see that he is perfect I think it all becomes less of an issue.
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#26 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You people are just so wonderful!

I am so glad to have found this place... or should I say "re found" this place. :
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#27 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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Cat, listen to Frank!

You spend 9 months waiting, worrying, and praying that you will give birth to a healthy, normal baby. You wonder how you would handle it if there was something wrong, baby needed to be in ICU, or - Heaven forbid! - Baby needed an operation right away. Scary thoughts, right?

So what happens when you do give birth to a normal, healthy, perfect baby boy? You count his fingers and toes; you stroke his downy hair; you marvel over his cute little ears; you try to decide if he has your nose or DH's. Then you look at his penis. Is that a miracle too, or do you avert your eyes and say "Gross! THAT has to be fixed!" and sign him up for cosmetic surgery?

Baby boys are born with a foreskin - it IS the default. Before authorizing ANY operation for an infant or child, one needs to look carefully at the risks and the alternatives. I like this list of questions:

http://www.medicinenet.com/surgery_q...ns/article.htm

The problem is, infant circumcision is so commonplace in the US that most people don't even thionk of it as an operation, but it definitely IS. Tell your DH that you are not subjecting your baby to an operation without a REALLY good reason, and it is up to him to provide that reason, from more than one unbiased source (like a medical organization).

Finally, your DH needs to understand that this is NOT about HIM. Would you sign up Junior for an appendectomy just because DH has a scar? If DH was missing a finger, toe, or arm, would Junior need to have the same part amputated? A foreskin is exactly the same thing - the fact that your DH lost his as a child is no reason why your son needs to give up his.

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

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#28 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:18 PM
 
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My dh was not too open to listening at first, but I kept it up and won. It almost happened on a technicality, because ds was adopted at birth. His birthmom consented to the circ but was on medicaid. Medicaid didn't cover it as it is a "cosmetic surgery," and the hospital pedi wanted $250 cash to do it. We balked at that and told everyone we'd look into having it done on OUR insurance when we got home with him, and then didn't. DH would have agreed to do it if I had wanted it done, but didn't want to fight with me anymore about it - he eventually realized he wasn't going to win me over and that it wasn't worth fighting about anyways.

Our families are also pro-circ. Our ds is the only intact male that I'm aware of. I hope we have another boy and then they can realize that leaving ds1 intact was NO mistake. I can't really talk about it calmly and rationally, so I haven't been able to convince anyone else to leave their son intact, but would love to be able to save just one little boy someday.

Maybe by not talking about it for awhile, it can die down and he can become more open-minded. I'm pretty sure you have to consent in addition to your dh. I would file a letter with your midwife and also the hospital when you register that you absolutely do not consent to circumcision or retraction of any kind.

My ds was born in a hospital and we were present for his birth. It was a very adoption-friendly, rooming-in kind of hospital. We were offered a room of our own down the hall from birthmom and she allowed us to take him to our room overnight and much of the day after he was born. He never left my side. They wanted to take him to the nursery to do his hearing test but I wasn't going to just leave him at the nurse's station by himself. : I stood there with him and then they realized I wasn't going to walk away - they cheerfully offered to do the test in the room. He was never alone with a nurse - he was always with birthmom or one of us.

DS - 5! - adopted at birth after infertility, IUI, and IVF; DD - 4! - surprise pregnancy discovered when DS was 8 months old ; Hoping for another soon (actively TTC ~ 2 years)
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#29 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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Ok I just had a thought that I am going to throw at my dh if this one is a boy. The reason he is against it is bc he wants his son to look like him, well the simple answer would be to have dh fix his!!! I love this idea!!! They're are a lot of arguments that can go along with this.

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Mom to Madison 2005, Morgan 2006, Joseph (Cooper) 2009 and Jackson 2011
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#30 of 47 Old 10-08-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Love with my life
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I haven't read the other posts yet and I'm sure this has been thrown out there but,....

You are the Momma, it's your job to protect that child!! Circ can been done when LO is older and chooses that for himself, until then he needs to stay whole.

SAHMhomeschool.gif: to LCjog.gif (6-08) GJsuperhero.gif (3-06) KDREPlaySkateboard04HL.gif (3-04) and a new little on one the way1sttri.gif: and :megan, henrie, and apple and wife to BD for 12years now!!
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