Nurses like cut fathers? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 18 Old 11-16-2003, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've read about several nurses on here who are adamantly pro-circ. One mom mentioned a nurse cutting her own son. This bothered me for quite a while (well, still does for that matter). But I was thinking abou it, and I think they're kinda in the same boat as cut fathers. It seems that cut dads prefer to have thier sons cut to say, "See, I'm fine, there's nothing wrong with me. To prove it, I'll do it to my son rather than admit that I'm missing something." Perhaps these nurses are really saying, "See, I'm fine, I'm a good person. To prove it, I'll do it to my own son to prove that I'm not doing anything wrong." Just something that crossed my mind.
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#2 of 18 Old 11-16-2003, 03:45 PM
 
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Nurses, doctors, fathers, no one is immune to the cultural pressure to be sheep. Our society almost demands it and is quite ready to tell you so. If you don't buckle to their demands, you may be shunned or lectured. Few are able to stand up to this social pressure. Even fewer are able to speak out against it.

The people who are new parents now come from a time when cirucmision was almost universal. If you were a White, European descent, Christian, middle class male born 20-40 years ago in America, there was an almost 100% chance that you would be circumcised. That is the reality of these parents. Luckily, about 12 years ago, the word started coming out and a few rebels listened. They spoke to other rebels who spoke to mainstream people who spoke to other mainstream people. Then the internet became available to the masses and even more became able to get real information and now the circumcision craze has turned around. Now, intactness is accepted by the younger group and will become the reality for the next generation of parents.

We are at that turning point right now and the debate is furious because we are almost evenly divided. The older generation feels the need to justify and support their decision. The younger generation is quite ready to listen to new information. The ones in between are the ones that have the most difficulty because they are being pulled from both sides. It is difficult to know who to believe. They see the evidence against and it appears credible and accurate. It comes from unimpeachable sources. It makes logical and rational sense. On the other side, almost everyone they know has been circumcised and it appears there are no problems. They don't realize that even if there are problems, they are not discussed.

If a man has a problem due to his circumcision, there is a very good chance that he has no idea that the problem is due to circumcision or he may not even recognize it as a problem. Even those that are terribly disfigured may think they have a normal circumcision because they generally don't closely inspect other men's penises.

Women are in an even worse position. They will probably never meet a man sexually who has a very badly botched circumcision because the man will be ashamed of his penis and will avoid sexual encounters. Even if it is only botched cosmetically, he is likely to hide it under the cover of darkness. If the man has sensitivity problems, he will have "staying power" and be a "real man" or if he has problems with premature ejaculation, it will never be connected with his genital surgery. Some women even view the excess friction of the immobile shaft skin as normal and desireable and the resulting vaginal irritation as inevitable and normal.

There is a new generation coming and the women of that generation will have ample opportunities to experience the natural way. The intact penis will be normal as will the circumcised penis be viewed as normal and they will have the opportunity to experience both. Without the cultural pressure, they will recognize the inherent superiority of nature's unmodified design and will choose to leave their sons intact from first hand experience.

Once this happens, the examples like the nurse will be very rare. as the older parents die out and younger ones take their place, circumcision will be viewed for what it really is. That is an archaic procedure that was started and perpetuated in ignorance and abandoned once education became available.




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#3 of 18 Old 11-16-2003, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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if he has problems with premature ejaculation, it will never be connected with his genital surgery
Is this a problem circ causes? I've understood that it desensitizes men which seems to be the exact opposit.
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#4 of 18 Old 11-16-2003, 09:22 PM
 
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Hi, I am an RN who is not currently working (SAHM), but I have worked in hospitals. My last job was on a post-partum floor. One of my duties was to assist the doctor with circs. This was the worst part of my job. I had a hard time with the whole process. I even had to strap down the baby for the procedure. Luckily I only ended up working there for three months.

I have seen babies so traumatized by the procedure that they would start to gag and choke almost to the point of stopping breathing. I had parents witness the circ of their son and not seem the least bit horrified that he was screaming in pain.

Believe me this is the reason that my son is intact. There was no way I was going to do that to my son. I am also pregnant again with another boy, he will also remain intact.

I know I am probably in the minority in the medical field. Most of the nurses I worked with didn't really see a problem with circ. There are some of us who don't think hurting babies is OK.
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#5 of 18 Old 11-17-2003, 01:45 AM
 
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one of the rns where i had max, when she heard that we leave our babies intact, said 'thank god!' (i hadn't had high hopes for her, or her for me, when she griped about me tossing my darling formula pkt in the trash, or bypassing that all-important hepatitus b shot, but it goes to show you shouldn't cross someone off your list just because they do *something* you disagree with.)

i asked and she said nearly 100% were circ'd there- and it was a damned unnecessary shame. (and this was in a hospital where *every* mom when i was there had rooming in & was nursing- not a baby in the nursery to be found. that makes me think that if someone had bothered to educate these women about circ'ing, the way they did about bfing, obviously, the numbers might've looked different.)

i hope more nurses and medical personnel have the courage to speak out against the routine torture-mutilation of babies for profit. thanks, karry.

suse
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#6 of 18 Old 11-17-2003, 01:46 PM
 
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Originally posted by MelissaEvans
Is this a problem circ causes? I've understood that it desensitizes men which seems to be the exact opposit.

There is really not a lot of good research about this issue but some think that there is a connection.

I think for very young men, premature ejaculation is a problem of over excitement of the brain more than anything else. In my own experience, there was no way that it was over stimulation of anything other than the brain because there just wasn't enough time for anything else to get stimulated. It was both disappointing and frustrating.

However, if the problem persists into adulthood, the hypothesis is that a circumcised man does not have the sensory input to know when to back off a bit and prolong the act. It's like all of a sudden, it's there and there is no way to slow it down and stop it. The thinking is that with the extra sensitivity an intact man has, he is able to read the signals far in advance and is able to subtlely adjust what he does to prolong the experience for both himself and his lover. This is borne out in my personal experience after foreskin restoration. The stimulation is more intense but I can maintain that higher level with cooperation of my lover without going over the edge. At the point she starts to have hers, her vaginal muscles tighten and then I'm pushed over the edge at the same time as she has hers. Now it happens that way almost every time and of course, that makes for a far superior experience for the both of us than one trying to wait for the other or having to continue after they have already had theirs.

It would appear that lesser sensitivity would be the cure for premature ejaculation but it appears that it is the cause of it in many cases. Strange, isn't it?




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#7 of 18 Old 11-17-2003, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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First, I wanna say that although my spelling isn't great, I do know how to spell opposite. I have a wireless keyboard and it occasionally skips a letter much to my dismay. Wrong letters I have to take full blame for though. =)

Karry, I promise I wasn't trying to say that all nurses are heartless; I was just shocked with a few stories of how pro-circ some of them are. It surprised me, I would have thought more would have your reaction. I'm so glad not all nurses have their hearts amputated in the name of "medicine." Just like some dads are willing to let their sons be intact even though the dad is missing a part of himself. Dads and nurses like that make me proud to be human. =)

Frank, thank you for clarifying. That makes sense. Like a car going from 0 to 60 instentaniously. No time to look around at the scenery.
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#8 of 18 Old 11-17-2003, 07:51 PM
 
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I was the one who posted about the nurse cutting her own son. I later found out it got much worse. The friend who told me ,left out bits and pieces as she saw I was upset enough as it was.It turns out in her quest for a "good tight circ" the ridge (is that called the coronal sulcus?) became crushed in the clamp as well. She took "her" baby(or property) home and noticed at his next diaper change that the diaper was filled with blood. So she took him back to the pedi office(where she did the circ) and had him take a look. That is when they discovered that she sliced into the glans and took WAY too much skin. He hopefully will not need skin grafting. But did get the bleeding to stop.

As she told my friend about "his little snip" she was smiling. No big deal.She did say"in all the circ's I've done,my kid has to be the bleeder."


Sorry. This is why I haven't bothered to finish telling you all.
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#9 of 18 Old 11-18-2003, 02:15 AM
 
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oh god, if that doesn't qualify as physical and emotional abuse i don't know what does. is there a pro-circ advocate in the world that could laugh *that* story off? that is truly horrific.

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#10 of 18 Old 11-18-2003, 11:31 AM
 
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That woman should be committed
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#11 of 18 Old 11-18-2003, 11:49 AM
 
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I fully understand about Frank's "sheep" theory, social pressure and being in the middle. The day my son was born, 18 months ago, the same woman (my sil) who held my hand during labor, went behind my back to my husband convincing him to circumcize his son, or he would forever be "different" from his Dad and all his friends. This was supported by the rest of his family and my family. Talk about feeling alone. All I can say is Thank God for breastfeeding the mothering hormones that come along because there was no way in hell I was going to let that happen.

I was lucky that in my birthing classes, the instructor was very graphic in describing circ's,and as soon as I heard about the strapping down, that was it for me, I was convinced it would never happen.
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#12 of 18 Old 11-18-2003, 05:50 PM
 
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I,m even more horrified about the nurse who ended up mutilating her son and thought nothing of it.She probably isnt even qualified to do the procedure.The only nurses I heard who can do circumcisions are some midwives or advanced nurse practitioners.That poor boy is probably going to be sexually dysfunctional because of his own mother who seems more like the dragon lady from the Stephen King book "MISERY".Personally if that woman bragged to me about butchering her son I probably would have clobbered her.I hate people who deliberately harm their children.
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#13 of 18 Old 11-19-2003, 08:19 PM
 
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I had a thought of do nurses prefer circ cause its easier for them in the long run? To care for an elderly man who needs care of his penis they might look at it as more work, so get cut. Just my thought
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#14 of 18 Old 11-19-2003, 08:48 PM
 
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I have a friend who worked as a nurse's aide in a nursing home. She said that if she had a son she would have him circumcised, because she didn't like having to deal with the foreskins on the old men who needed diaper changes. Ugh. Yeah, I'll deprive my son of a foreskin for his ENTIRE LIFE "just in case" he ends up in a nursing home unable to care for himself so that some aide who won't even be born in my lifetime won't be "inconvenienced". OK, maybe I shouldn't really define this woman as a friend - she's the wife of my dh's best friend and I CAN'T talk to her about things that really matter (KWIM?)!
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#15 of 18 Old 11-20-2003, 11:39 AM
 
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I'm quite sure these same women would find it quite horrible to suggest surgically "cleaning up" a baby girl's genitals in the off chance that they may end up in a nursing home and it would be a "favor" for her caregivers. :Puke





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#16 of 18 Old 11-20-2003, 07:22 PM
 
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Frank~

Your first post on this thread is wonderful. It gives insight to every issue dealing with circ'ing. Thank you very much for your very knowledgable insight on this topic. I am very happy I looked in on this thread.



And momto3boys, I am absolutely sickened about that nurse.

Un-freakin-believable.
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#17 of 18 Old 11-20-2003, 07:41 PM
 
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"One of my duties was to assist the doctor with circs. This was the worst part of my job. I had a hard time with the whole process."

This is something I have always wondered about. Couldn't a medical professional simply refuse to do (or assist) circumcision for ethical/philosophical reasons? Could they legally fire you for refusing to do elective cosmetic surgery if that is not specifically part of your job description?
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#18 of 18 Old 11-20-2003, 10:13 PM
 
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There are nurses who refuse to assist and are able to keep their jobs.The most public ones are the nurses at St Vincents in Sante Fe NW.They also have their own organization and website.
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