Thank you for all the info, Anymore? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 5 Old 12-05-2003, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been browsing through some of the posts here and I just want to thank everyone for the information they have provided. And to ask what other links are good sources (I already have the ones from 'Circumcision Question').

I had already made the decision not to circ when I was pg (didn't know the sex, but we had a girl so it wasn't an issue), and my husband agreed with it, not b/c he believes in it, but b/c he knew that I wouldn't change my mind. But I want him to actually understand why I'm against it, even if he doesn't feel its unnecessary, I at least want him to be educated. He has the stance that since he was circumcised so should his son.

And, after reading some of the info, I'm starting to think that his circumcision wasn't the best idea (not that he had a choice.) He's only 25 but is starting to loose some sensitivity already. I read the stuff about restoration, but I don't know how to casually bring it up in conversation to get him interested in looking at the info. (He kind of needs to feel like things are his idea before he will get interested in them.) I don't know if he'd be interseted in it, but at least he'd know it's possible if it got to that point.

TIA

Trish~mama to Kaelie 5/03 and Amelia 12/13, surro mama to Aidan 2/08 & Ellyss 6/09, 

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#2 of 5 Old 12-06-2003, 01:39 PM
 
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Probably the best place to start is www.nocirc.com. That's the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers. From there you can pick up links to Doctors Opposing Circumcision, Attorneys for the Rights of the Child, The National Organization of Restoring Men and many more. From those sites, you will find many more links to other sites. You will find enough links to turn learning about circumcision into a career! There is also a reference library called the Circumcision Information Resource Pages - www.cirp.org. There are also many personal websites like Circumstitions.com that are a treasure trove of information.

Good luck on your journey of discovery!



Frank
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#3 of 5 Old 12-07-2003, 09:43 PM
 
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The May issue of Details Magazine (I know... it's getting out of date) had an article on restoration in it... it's a magazine that feels mainstream enough to most men that he would not feel like he was buying into a quack penis enlargement scam or floofy subculture... the article is coming at the issue from a very normal POV.

This issue: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...8&category=611

-Whatever you do I advise staying away from the book "Sex as Nature Intended it."

I think you can tell him you found out about it, and that's about it. Tell him you'd be supportive.

You could also get him something like:
http://www.manhood.mb.ca/details.html
this as a Xmas present. If you couple that with some other kind of sexy items... (you figure it out) it would make the gift have a attitude that you love him sexually and you care about him sexually, and your gift would come across as a caress rather than a criticism. The item itself... it might seem kind of goofy... but I don't know if having someone take a sexual interest in you is something you'd hold against them... the website has lots of restoring info in it- but is very positive towards circumcised men and their feelings.

You want to be REALLY careful that it does not come across like you are dissatisfied or critical of how he is.

Love Sarah
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#4 of 5 Old 12-17-2003, 02:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sarah
-Whatever you do I advise staying away from the book "Sex as Nature Intended it."
Sarah, dumb question, you mean because it would be too devastating to him or something? Or is there another reason?

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#5 of 5 Old 12-17-2003, 01:27 PM
 
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Hmmm... I know I have outlined my rant against this book/author elsewhere in another post... but I don't remember where.

Yes, because it might be unsettling and upsetting to him... but more, because I think that the author (woman) appoaches the subject from an extremely insulting and demeaning platform, and I think that she is a very poor spokesperson to communicate some of the things she is saying.

I do agree with many of the things she states about the mechanics of intercourse... but beyond that it all falls apart.

My husband's reaction to the book was abject fury. I do know that there are men out there who did appreciate the book, but I think thoise were men who had already come to terms with all the circumcision damage issues and for them the book may have served as a "validation" for feelings they already had... if a man is circumcised and happy with it and currently believing that his sexual function is just fine (even if it is changed somewhat) the premise of the book is going to be extremely insulting... to him, his marriage, and his partner.

Kristen O'Hara takes her own experience and opinions and then blankets the whole world with her ideas about sex, sexual anatomy and "the love bond" She says that natural sex promotes the "love bond" and that circumcision damages it. OK, I can buy that up to there... but then she elaborates by explaining away this adulturous affair with an intact man as if the love bond with her husband was being damaged by the pain that circumcision had introduced into her bedroom... while in the meantime she was being uncontrolabably compelled to screw this intact guy by her primal sex connections which were saying, "What he has is right." (and these and not quotes, they are my impressions)

Well, her husband winds up having a surgical restoration, her love bond is fixed, she develops the ability to tear herself from the primal attachment to her intact love and her marriage is saved through (a totally dangerous and risky form of restoration which could have entirely destroyed her husband's ability to enjoy sex at all) and she tells the world that restoration is the answer... no need to fear, if your marriage is in trouble or you have been sexually harmed by circumcision, for the sake of your love bond you can restore your foreskin and all will be well. She repeats this over and over and it comes off like an infomercial.

Now, my POV... I have had some AWESOME sex with intact guys... and I also know that circumcision does interfere with the way intercourse is supposed to be... but it does not interfere with LOVE... because your love of a man is not to his penis.

I know a guy (not sexually) who was in a motorcycle wreck- and when he crashed- he took a gas tank to the crotch.. he was really damaged in the testes... I don't know if it affected his fertility, and I am pretty sure it did not change his erectile function... but what if it had? Sex with him would not be "as nature itended it" but would his wife leave him, abandon him as damaged goods? go get her jollies elsewhere? explain away her infidelity by a "poor me" story about her husband's damaged package? Would she bemone the shattered "love bond" or would she simply reconfigue the terms and practices of their physical relationship to respectfully, tenderly and lovingly reinforce the physical manifestation of the love for him that she has in her heart?

The book comes off on a female power trip.. that every woman deserves some level of sexual functioning from her husband and without that- marriages fall apart. Well- I know that's the crappy truth for lots of shallow evil women who don't really love their husbands. But for the rest of women, who are married to real men, intact ones and circumcised men, who are married to men with penises that are small or large, or occasionaly not erect at the perfect moment... or men who are not in the mood, or morbidly obese, or who have heart trouble, or AIDS, or who are not sexually inclined, who had a hard day at work, or who have hangups about certain types of intamacy ... shall I go on? Lots of people deal with loving relationships without insisting that their partner change an aspect of their physical reality and perform "just so" or ELSE. Many women would not abandon our husband even if he had an accident with a chainsaw... it's insulting. But the O'hara premise is that even a little bit of interference wih natural sexual functioning is too much of a burden for a marriage to sustain.

I say that although it IS a real imposition... it is not more than a marriage can manage... it's not welcome- but together- we can make it! For better or worse.

And, it's none of my business, but Mr. O'hara's surgical restoration (as opposed to the safer but long term work of non-surgical restoration) haunts me. It feels like physical and emotiona abuse to me... like a woman who would get a boob job to save her marriage. I know that a foreskin and fake boobs are not comparable, but the seeming coercion to get love (back) through changing yourself physically... it makes me feel so sad for him. When Kristen said "I do" he was circumcised... and her cheating on him had nothing to do with faults in HIM... it had to do with faults in HER.

Women cheat on intact men all the time. And women are faithful to circumcised men all the time. Cheaters are cheaters. And love is LOVE.

Love Sarah
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