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#31 of 49 Old 03-22-2009, 03:33 PM
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Surgery is for sick people, not healthy ones.
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#32 of 49 Old 03-22-2009, 04:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
Your DP doesn't have to be anti-circ, he just needs to be OK with an intact son. It may be easier to say intact is OK for him than to deal with his emotions about circ.
:

i was sorely disappointed when my (circed) dh didn't get as angry and anti-circ as i did when i presented the research to him, but i realized that while that would have been nice, all i really needed was for him to not pursue circ'ing our children.

i would drop it for now, with the intention of just not consenting when the time comes. your partner knows how you feel about it now, and really, the burden of proof for wanting to perform cosmetic surgery on your child rests on him. let him tell you why he believes it should be done if he brings up the subject again, and refute, refute, refute, but i would not broach the subject again, other than to let him know that circumcising your child is not going to happen, full stop.

christina

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#33 of 49 Old 03-22-2009, 07:39 PM
 
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DH told me that i dont get to have an opinion b/c i dont have a penis. i told him that means he doesnt get to have an opnion b/c he doesnt have a foreskin. i was kinda mad at that point.

Me,DH,DS1'95, '98,DSD'03,DD1'07,DD2'09,DS2'12 Living with Fructose Malabsorption Syndrome and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome Type 3-Hypermobility.)o( and sometimes I get toif I am lucky.
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#34 of 49 Old 03-22-2009, 09:01 PM
 
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I'm sorry you're dealing with this. DH and I were in the same boat as soon as we found out we were/are having a boy, and we JUST came to an agreement last weekend (with 3 weeks until our due date. Phew!)

We mostly avoided the topic for the majority of those 17 weeks. The 2-3 times we tried to talk about it ended with me in tears and it wasn't getting us anywhere. Last weekend, we attended an information/discussion session at our birth center, and at the end the leader of the discussion presented a very unbiased and informative slide show about circumcision (complete with graphic photos - ick). Up until that point, I hadn't put my foot down about it, I just quietly hoped that he would eventually come around; but when I saw those pictures, I was ready to say HELL NO. Fortunately, I didn't have to. As soon as we got in the car to go home, DH said that we didn't have to maim our child if I didn't want to, and admitted that there was no solid medical reason, and get this - his own stubbornness was not a good enough reason. I was floored.

In short, there is hope. If your doctor/midwife is competent and understanding of the fact that there is no legitimate reason to circ, maybe you could ask him/her to sit down with you and your DP and try to knock some sense into him.

If all else fails, I agree with the others - just say no.





By the way, hi everyone! I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster to the forums here. :
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#35 of 49 Old 03-22-2009, 10:22 PM
 
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By the way, hi everyone! I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster to the forums here. :
Welcome to the board Bezark! What a lucky boy, : what a great DH! I hope now that you've come out of hiding you'll participate. So what state are you in, I am courious where the good info is being presented.
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#36 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Thanks! I don't want to hijack the thread, but we're from NJ, and the good information came from The Birth Center in Wilmington, DE. There've been quite a few discussions about them elsewhere on the boards, and they really are fantastic.
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#37 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 10:41 AM
 
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I just put my foot down with my dh and he eventually came around on his own. I figured it was his issue to work out, since it was more about his circumcision than the baby's.

That is why your dh is obsessing about "needing" it done later in life - he is subconsciously in pain for his own circumcision, yet still needs to think it was necessary, so he is transferring his own pain onto the baby. Therefore the baby will eventually "need" it done, but it will be painful. Understand?

This is what I say, and there is no arguing it. You will only have stewardship of the penis for 3 years. For the next 80 years, your son will be the one living with it, peeing out of it, and having sex with it. Therefore all permanent decisions about it should belong to him. If he "needs" to be circumcised as an adult (and it is more likely he will need a mastectomy for breast cancer), he can make the decision himself after exhausting all treatment options, and he will get adequate pain relief during and after. There is nothing emergent about his baby foreskin and so it can just be left alone.

After that, it is your dh's responsibility to work out his own issues. The more you try to make it easy on him, the less responsibility he has to take for himself.
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.

Have you seen the updated user agreement yet?
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#38 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 08:12 PM
 
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I just put my foot down with my dh and he eventually came around on his own. I figured it was his issue to work out, since it was more about his circumcision than the baby's.

You will only have stewardship of the penis for 3 years. For the next 80 years, your son will be the one living with it, peeing out of it, and having sex with it. Therefore all permanent decisions about it should belong to him.


After that, it is your dh's responsibility to work out his own issues. The more you try to make it easy on him, the less responsibility he has to take for himself.
(emphasis mine)

That was really well said/written! I'm floored. Thank you.
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#39 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 08:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by To-Fu View Post
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.
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(emphasis mine)

That was really well said/written! I'm floored. Thank you.
Thank you both. :

DS1 2004 ~ DS2 2005 ~ DD1 2008 ~ DS3 2010 ~ DD2 due Dec. 2014
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#40 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 09:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by To-Fu View Post
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.
I really like this post!
If my adult sons decide that I made a big mistake by keeping them intact, and decide to get circ'ed now, then that is their decision to make (although I would try to talk them out of it). I'm so glad that I left the decision up to them. I do know that the younger one is quite happy he's intact!
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#41 of 49 Old 03-23-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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DH told me that i dont get to have an opinion b/c i dont have a penis. i told him that means he doesnt get to have an opnion b/c he doesnt have a foreskin. i was kinda mad at that point.
Yup, I've used that before in discussions with women who were allowing their circ'd husbands make the decision. I worded it, "What does HE know about foreskins, since he doesn't have one?"



I agree with the PPs that sometimes it just comes down to Mommy putting her foot down and saying NO!!!

Good luck, OP!


p.s. though the circ videos were always horrendous to me, actual pictures of male penises with bridges and various other physical, visible complications were shocking and I wonder if some daddies might not find those to be even more compelling.
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#42 of 49 Old 03-24-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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I tend to go with the "mommy gets the choice since she is the one with intact genitals" After all, she still has her prepuce.

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#43 of 49 Old 03-24-2009, 02:21 AM
 
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At the very beginning, I was on the fence about circ and glad I had a girl so I didn't have to make the decision. Then we found out we were having a boy. DH is circ'ed, as are most men his age who grew up in North America. He thinks it's normal, it's cleaner, etc, and wanted to circ our son. I was against it and the more I read about it, the more against it I became. I can't remember how exactly, but I managed to convince him not to have our son circ'ed, and I'm so glad about my decision. I think it's just because I stood my ground and backed up my argument wiht more and more research when it was discussed. He eventually backed down, but wasn't happy about it. I'll get an earful if there's ever a problem because of it.

It breaks my heart that children are put through pain unnecessarily.

Mama to my two sweet monkeys - DD '04 and DS '06
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#44 of 49 Old 03-24-2009, 09:38 AM
 
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My partner is pro-circ and is still very resentful about leaving ds intact. It was a very charged issue and one that I never thought would be such a problem. (We are both vegan and compassionate people). I was not going to budge on the issue. I hope that someday he comes around but if not, oh well. All of my boys will be intact.

S~ Peace loving, natural living, FuNkY vegan mama to Keiran bouncy.gif 23/Dec/06:
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" ~~ MLK
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#45 of 49 Old 03-27-2009, 08:37 AM
 
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#46 of 49 Old 03-27-2009, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks again, folks.

I'm afraid no amount of showing him anything (videos, websites, etc.) is going to change his mind -- he's just too stubborn.

The good news is that I'm the exact same way, and I'm holding all the cards in the situation.

For now, we're just going to sit back and relax and wait.

- Born 7/21/09
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#47 of 49 Old 03-27-2009, 10:58 AM
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Thanks again, folks.

I'm afraid no amount of showing him anything (videos, websites, etc.) is going to change his mind -- he's just too stubborn.
Both, my husband and I are VERY stubborn as well. But when it comes to well-being of our kids we can change our mind in a heartbeat if presented with trustworthy info/facts. So, I would say definitely show him the circ vodeo as well as the new 20 min long video called "Circumcision Decision" http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65256830319025
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#48 of 49 Old 03-27-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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Thanks again, folks.
I'm afraid no amount of showing him anything (videos, websites, etc.) is going to change his mind -- he's just too stubborn.
The good news is that I'm the exact same way, and I'm holding all the cards in the situation.
For now, we're just going to sit back and relax and wait.
Then as you suggest (relax /wait...) do your best to close the situation- don't spend more time worrying about it. You know YOU ARE not going to do it, no more discussion/energy needs to be spent on it. Leave yourself free to focus more on the many other things you can do to plan for a wonderful preganancy and birth.
Perhaps at some point he'll start to see how dis-harmonious (is that a word?) circumcision feels with all the other energy being focused on creating a healthy and peaceful experience (for everyone- you, your son, even your partner).
I think I mentioned (sorry for going on/on about our situation) I spent a lot of time agonizing over the circumcison issue, including the religious aspect of it, in the end dh WAS just being stubborn-- be he just refused to discuss, and wasn't wasting his time/energy. I don't regret a second of my time spent, but I wish I could have had the resolve to just let it be and know I would just protect my son when the time came- that I didn't need to defend my decision or build a case or know every answer/detail.
It would have been helpful to have more time to have created more of a support system for our birth, breastfeeding and babymoon time and that would have then supported the issue of intactness. More of a support system then would have been helpful because of all the uncertainty and being overwhlemed I almost caved in to let it happen because I was just to darn exhausted, tired of fighting, and hormonal. But deep down even as I said something like 'i give up, it will probably end up allright, you make the decision' to dh, I deep down knew that would destroy me as well as destroy my relationship with my husband (we had repair work to do after all that anyways).
Luckily by then dh realized that the issue WAS that serious AND that upsetting to me, and he realized he wasn't so keen on it either. We don't really discuss this much, but the times it has come up he's been actually a little supportive- which is quite a statement considering all. We had such a time trying to have a beautiful birth (and didn't get exactly the way we wanted it), I fought so hard to breastfeed, and our little one was just so amazing, and tiny and dependant on us-- all of that to him really made him quite protective- for example, he fully supported delaying any decision on circumcision till breastfeeding was going better.

It's no fun to spend a pregnancy AND post-partum period fighting a battle. If you need to fight it, you'll know it, and you will be able to.

((Hugs)) and hang in there.

Jessica

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Dhprivateeyes.gif, Joshua rolleyes.gif Rebeccagrouphug.gifand dog2.gif.    candle.gif for Laura
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#49 of 49 Old 03-27-2009, 12:28 PM
 
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The good news is that I'm the exact same way, and I'm holding all the cards in the situation.

I am glad you are standing up for your son! thanks for doing this, for holding tight!

Latina Mama of 3 and Wife of a great man since 1997
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