UGH!! MIL rant! Update post #79 - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So dh and me have not discussed Circ in a while. He wants it, I dont. Found out insurance wont cover it unless its done at the hospital. We are having a home birth so we would have to pay out of pocket for it. DH's hours have been cut really bad so I know we cant afford it and figured the issue would just die away and pretty much has. Until today!! DH stopped to see his mom this morning and she asked about Circ. he told her that I wont even talk about it with him any more. He told her we cant afford to pay out of pocket for it so she told him to find out how much its going to be and of course she will pay for it!!! "Its something that just has to be done" I am so insulted!!! I knew thats what she would say. I dint discuss it any further. DH knows where I stand. She babysits a lot, its not possible for her to find a doc and get this done behind my back, is it??

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#2 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 01:23 PM
 
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I don't think any law-abiding doctor would circ a baby if the grandparent tried to arrange it. That sounds like grounds for a Big Time lawsuit.

But if your MIL is going to be babysitting your son, you need to make SURE she won't retract!

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#3 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 01:25 PM
 
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So dh and me have not discussed Circ in a while. He wants it, I dont. Found out insurance wont cover it unless its done at the hospital. We are having a home birth so we would have to pay out of pocket for it. DH's hours have been cut really bad so I know we cant afford it and figured the issue would just die away and pretty much has. Until today!! DH stopped to see his mom this morning and she asked about Circ. he told her that I wont even talk about it with him any more. He told her we cant afford to pay out of pocket for it so she told him to find out how much its going to be and of course she will pay for it!!! "Its something that just has to be done" I am so insulted!!! I knew thats what she would say. I dint discuss it any further. DH knows where I stand. She babysits a lot, its not possible for her to find a doc and get this done behind my back, is it??
It might be possible but would be really stupid on her part. It would also be a significant liability for her and the Dr you might need to make it clear the repercussions such a move would create.
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#4 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 02:12 PM
 
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does she know your stance on this?

I would be uber irked. To the point of 'we need to have a talk' and pulling her aside to tell her to butt out.

I'm angry for you.

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#5 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 03:39 PM
 
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Unfortunatly yes it is possible for her to have it done without your concent. All she has to do it make the appt. and take him in it is as simple as that. She can give any story about you she wishes and since your dh isnt on board with not circing he might even go with her.

If you have no other choice but to let her babysit you need to sit down with her and explain it in a way you know she will understand that if she where to do something like that she would never see her grandchild again and any other "facts" that might befall her should she even consider it.

In all honesty I would be terrified to leave my ds with her. What if she decides to retract him so that it causes damage so he will "have" to be circed. Even if she backs off on the circ issue.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this but please mama talk to your MIL dont let their be any doubt in her mind where you stand on circ.

We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.

 
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#6 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.


Wow. That kind of deception would be grounds for divorce for me.
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#7 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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Wow. That kind of deception would be grounds for divorce for me.
Here, here!

My DH and I only have a 12mo DD, but we've fought over the circumcision 'decision' off and on since I discovered more about it AFTER DD was born. Thank GOD I didn't have a boy first, or he may be cut right now! DH wants to circ if we have boys- he is, and wants his sons to be, too. We went through the rounds of 'oh, it's cleaner' and 'insert other circ myth here' but I finally just wore him down to he 'just thinks it looks better'. I, of course, hadn't bridged the gap to speak to MIL about it, and if I ever were pregnant with a boy, should she give me any advice on the subject, I would most certainly bite her head off. Anyway, yeah, if DH went behind my back and had our future son/s mutilated because he has hangups about his own penis, I wouldn't need a divorce- I'd need a wooden box and shovel.

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#8 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 04:38 PM
 
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We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.
Wow, what happened with that woman. Did she divorce that guy?



To the OP- I think thats a more unusual case, but you do need to sit down with your MIL and let her know that you and her son are the parents. Tell her, you understand she is just trying to help, but as parents, this is an issue you and your husband will figure out, and ask her to butt out until AFTER a decision is made.
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#9 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well I went to her house today just to hang out and I wasnt there 2 min. before she brought it up. She was at physical therapy today and brought it up to her therapist, who has two boys. I stopped her there. Just told her I refuse to talk about it. Thats that. I think before we even knew we were having a boy she asked if we would do it and I said no and we got into about it, so she knows where I stand. I am just too hormonal right now to discuss anything with out breaking out crying. There was no way I was going to talk about it. DH wants it done but I dont think he would go behind my back like that and do it.

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#10 of 87 Old 03-24-2009, 09:17 PM
 
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To the best of my memory she is still with her dh. They did get into a big fight about it though but she decided since he backed down after her finding out he would just let it go.

That is the only story like that I have came across here that extreme thank goodness.

She never thought that her dh would do something like that either but he surprised her

 
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#11 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well dh and me just got into a huge argument about it agian! I dont know what to do any more!! He left for work and I am left crying. Argument put on hold until another day!

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#12 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 01:00 AM
 
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Just let it go mama it isnt good for you or the baby. If you are having a hospital birth dont let the baby out of your site and anyone that enters the room gets the "he is not to be circed" lecture.

I hope your dh comes around but putting your foot down and saying it isnt happening might be the way it has to be. I didnt like doing it but oh well ds is intact and dh is still not anti circ. But all that matters is ds is whole.

 
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#13 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 02:11 AM
 
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Well dh and me just got into a huge argument about it agian! I dont know what to do any more!! He left for work and I am left crying. Argument put on hold until another day!
What are his reasons for wanting it done?
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#14 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 02:28 AM
 
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What kind of insurance do you have? If you're going to have a regular pediatrician, make it quite clear to him/her that under no circumstances do you consent to your son being circumsized, and that if one is performed on your child anyway (with father's consent), you will take any necessary legal action.

Also make it quite clear to your MIL and DH that if they try to do it behind your back, there will be hell to pay. Period.

Honestly, most doctors won't even see a child for the first time without a parent or legal guardian present, let alone perform a procedure like a circ on them without parental consent.
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#15 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 03:34 AM
 
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I know this sounds extreme, but you might consider sending letters to paediatricians in your area notifying them not to perform the procedure without your consent. Just in case.

Good luck. I hope you can convince him, or if not, just have it at the point where he can't/won't do anything.
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#16 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 10:15 AM
 
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s

I was told by my DPs that boyfriend's mother says it (circ) WILL be done. I couldn't form a coherent response at the time -- that this is not her baby to decide what "will" be done and what won't.

Hang in there. I hope things work out positively.

- Born 7/21/09
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#17 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 10:35 AM
 
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I would tell my MIL that it can't be done without mother's permission and presence and if it was in any way attempted that you would call the police, file charges, and sue. Not to mention divorce her son in a heartbeat and then she will *never* get visitation.

That is pretty extreme. If it were me, I would just look her straight in the face and tell her that your son's penis is none of her business and it is unhealthy and making you uncomfortable that she is taking such an interest in it.

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#18 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 11:14 AM
 
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Well, you have recieved some good advice about preventing the deed from taking place, and I would not take that lightly. Definitely talk to your Dr. However, I feel that , if possible, you need to somehow educate your DH and your MIL to get them off your back. Maybe print our the article on circumcision that was published in "Men's Health" some years ago. That should have credibility enough for your DH. For MIL, how about the article published by Dr Christianne Northrup (very well respected female Dr) entitled " How circumcision may have ruined your sex life" - or something like that.
Good luck - and don't give up. We are all here for you!
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#19 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 12:15 PM
 
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Maybe your MIL feels so strongly about it because she doesn't want to admit that she did it to her son unnecessarily?

Just tell her you know she made the best decision for her son with the information she had at the time. Now that the medical community knows that circ is not medically necessary you will make the best decision for your son that you can. Tell her you expect her to respect your decision and you would appreciate if she'd quit meddling in your marriage by discussing it with your husband - this is a decision between yourself and your husband, not her. She really needs to drop it. Tell her you know she doesn't want to cause harm to her son's marriage.

Also, ask her if she will have a problem following your care instructions for your son's intact penis. This opens the door to explaining that she should never retract, wipe it just like a finger, etc. Her answer and reaction will tell you if you'll be able to trust her with the care of your son.

By explaining it to her that you are making the most informed decision you remove her from the debate. She can't argue if you won't argue with her. Also, by talking to her about it point blank and showing that you aren't going to argue or be swayed by her it should send a strong message that this is not a battle she will win and she is also possibly harming your marriage.

As far as DH is concerned - I'm sorry he is still not in agreement with you. Have you tried to agree to disagree and let your son make the decision when he is old enough to consent to plastic surgery? What are his arguments for having it done?

Hugs to you. You'll get through this, have a beautiful baby boy and it will all blow over as he grows up.
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#20 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 12:20 PM
 
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i am afraid that if my mil made this offer knowing how i feel i would not allow her to be alone with my child, as her lack of respect for me would not be something that i would be happy for my child to be exposed to.
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#21 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!

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#22 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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I'm sorry.

Don't you think the reason to do such a thing on an innocent person is kind of shallow?

He will come around. Protect your baby. He will thank you for it later.

I didn't fight hard enough and my husband won that battle. Now that we both know better we both terribly regret what happened and are very VERY ANGRY at the American Medical Community for doing what they did to our precious newborn. We won't ever give birth in a hospital again.

The difference between you and I is, YOU KNOW BETTER! If you give in and allow something so terrible to happen to your intact son YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF! Trust me, your guilt will be worse than mine! Guilt is poison. It will ruin your life. You will carry this to your grave.

Hang in there. This will soon be a non-issue between the two of you. If it does happen, you can never get it back and he will be robbed of that choice over his own sex organ. Once its gone its gone forever. You CAN give him that choice over his own body. I'm not saying you or your dh should ever present to him that choice but rather if he decides on his own he wants to undergo this surgery AFTER experiencing what its like to have an intact penis as an adult then he will have the greatest pain medication available, he will feel empowered over HIS CHOICE, and his surgeon will have a grown organ to work with which is MUCH BETTER than something that hasn't grown into his potential yet.
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#23 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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Don't let him win because you will resent him for it for the rest of your life. Talk about harming a marriage.

Instead, tell him that since you are at a crossroads you both need to go to a counselor. Get some recommendations from friends (and from this board) and go talk about it.

As you said, you love him and it isn't worth ruining your marriage over but what type of marriage will you have if you feel like you didn't protect your son from harm and grow to blame your husband for it?

This is tough, but as parents and partners you'll have to work it out.
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#24 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 04:22 PM
 
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I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks.
Would he be pushing for this if he didn't like the look of his daughter's sex organ? Probably not. Would he be pushing for cosmetic surgery if he didn't like the look of his son's perfectly healthy nose/eyes/ears? Doubtful. Keep reminding yourself and him that this is only cosmetic surgery. You both love your son dearly and only want what's best for him so surgically altering him to make him meet some random ideal of beauty is beneath either of you. Send your son the lasting message that you love and accept him as he is, and that surgery is for helping sick people not for giving in to peer pressure about beauty. You can do this, Mama! Stay strong for your son - he will thank you for it.

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#25 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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Um this is your baby! Over my dead body would somebody do something to MY baby I didn't want done!

Tell your DH to hold off on getting anything done until you both reach a compromise. Afterall, it CAN be done later, but it can't be taken back. kwim?

GL to you! My lil guy is intact and I'm so so happy we left it that way!!!!! :
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#26 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!
can you honestly live with yourself if you allow this to happen?

This is your ds's life it is not yours or your dh's Dont give up mama just say NO. The one who has the most to loose here is your ds.

Your dh will learn to live with it but what if your ds is one of the ones that has major complications later on. What are you going to tell him when he asks you why? Your answer will be that you just gave up on fighting for him.

How do you think he will feel about that?

 
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#27 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 06:14 PM
 
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When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!
I know this is tough, but forget about your husband and your MIL for a second and think about your son. I am a young guy who was circumcised, and wished I wasn't. This is not about the pressure you feel, this not about your feelings, or your husbands feelings, this is about your son. What if your son also feels violated like so many men in america? What will you tell him then? As a parent your number one job is to protect this baby, and this is your first test.
Remind yourself that in the end this is NOT not a choice between you or your husband. This is about allowing your son to make this choice for himself. Tell your husband that your not trying to "go behind his back" with this decision. You are saying this is your son decision, not "ours" its his body, let him decide.
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#28 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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You are not alone. Many mom's here have faced this very issue. Some decided to not allow it no matter what. Some allowed their dh to "win" their stories of guilt and regret can be found in the "If you regret having your DS circed" thread there are several hundred stories there. Have you read it?

If not take the time and read it now. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#29 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heamae View Post
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants.

My husband didn't think too much about it, just assumed it was something that was done. Since I felt so strongly about our son not being mutilated, he was willing to go along with my feelings. I didn't think that was enough and made sure he had plenty of access to information about circumcision, parental attachment, etc. And *on his own*, he realized that he never wanted to inflict something like this on his child. I wanted him to realize how barbaric and horrible it is and to not just "go along", but to wholeheartedly agree with our decision to leave our son as nature intended.

My husband is a creature of logic, often to a fault, but it worked out in my son's favor.

Anyhow, if he'd been ruled by emotion, instead, I'd have just told him that the mere presence of his penis didn't necessarily qualify him to make this decision. After all, he has no prepuce. As an intact female, I DO have a prepuce. It's functional and I shudder at the thought of *not* having it. Therefore, I know what an intact prepuce can be and my experience holds more weight and there would be no amputation of a tiny newborn's genitalia.

I suppose it helps that I'm the crazy passionate one in our relationship. He's not emotionless, he's just not ruled by his heart quite as much. He prefers that I not be a harridan and I try not to steamroll him too often. I would *never* let him strip my child of his genital integrity, however. Fortunately, it became a non-issue.

There used to be information in this forum that was VERY useful and informative and that information made a HUGE difference in his feelings regarding circumcision. Sadly, I think those threads are now gone. I haven't been able to find them in awhile.

Chasing DS since April 2007 and pumping for DD March 2013.

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#30 of 87 Old 03-25-2009, 06:48 PM
 
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If you feel very strongly about this (and you should), please don't give in. It may be tough now, but it will be worth it for your son in the long run. And like others have said, the guilt will be unbearable.

My best friend had my God-son when she was very young. She didn't want to cut him, but her son's father felt very strongly that they should, and she did give in. After the circ, she cried uncontrollably every time she changed his diaper, and really, really resented her boyfriend for insisting on the circ which caused a lot of issues in their relationship.
When his penis started to heal, it was obvious that there was a problem. Gavin is 8 years old now and has had 11 surgeries to try to correct his botched circumcision (I haven't seen his penis since he was still in diapers, but at that point after 4-5 surgeries, it was still pretty heartbreaking), and my friend still has horrible guilt over allowing it to happen; so much so that when DH and I were arguing about whether or not to circ, she threatened to end our 23 year friendship if I gave in.

This is not to say that something like this would definitely happen to your son, but if it did, could you live with your decision? Just something to think about.
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