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#121 of 152 Old 10-28-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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Hi,
I'm Jill. I have one daughter (17 months) and a boy on the way. I brought the whole circ issue up with my DH this past weekend, pretty much knowing what his response would be (an irrational demand that his son be circ'ed for hygienic reasons and to be like him).

I figured I would bring it up once a week until we get this resolved. He brought it up last night ("By the way, our son WILL be circumcised"), and I asked him why he wanted to do that. He made a comment related to how I apparently feel about his genitals, so I told him, that's not it at all - I don't want a procedure like that done on my newborn son. He replied that we don't have to do it right way, and I responded that I'd rather put it off but I don't want it done at all.

Now I'm wondering if I should let the issue go for a little bit, since he's already given in a little, and hope that he brings it up again when he's willing to talk about it more - maybe get used to the idea for a while. I've still got 4 months to go, and since I think we can avoid fighting about it at the hospital now, I feel like I've got some time. I just don't want him to think that there's going to be a compromise here.

Always,
Jill

Mom to DD (6/08), DS (3/10), and babyf.gifdue 6/12

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#122 of 152 Old 10-29-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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Hi Jill,
I totally get where you're coming from. My husband wanted to circumcise if we had a boy and he kept saying that it was just a "gut feeling" that it was the right thing to do. He was offended when I told him that in this case his "gut" wasn't good enough, I needed his reasons. I would periodically make my case, but never argue. I'd just state any new reasons that I found not to, explain why I felt the way I felt, debunk any lame medical excuses, etc and leave it at that. This was against my nature, I typically am one to force a discussion, but I knew that this was a very sensitive issue and that arguing was only going to be off-putting.
I think we also both thought that maybe we'd have a girl and not have to think about it.
At the birth center they were telling us why the like to give a potassium shot and one of the reasons is to help the blood clot if parents decide to cirumcise and he paused and then said "we're not circumcising him". I would have jumped for joy if I hadn't just finished a 30 hour labor. Instead I kissed him and cried and then stared at my perfect little boy with his perfect little penis and was so proud of my husband.
4 months is a long time. Be patient and gentle, it's definitely a subject that is best to finesse rather than force. Hopefully he is open to any reasons that you bring up. Is he able to present any solid reasoning for circumcising? That's what it came down to for us--- all my husband had was his "gut" but he knew that there was no true reason to do it and ultimately I think it was his logical side that won out.
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#123 of 152 Old 10-29-2009, 11:37 AM
 
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Hopefully he is open to any reasons that you bring up. Is he able to present any solid reasoning for circumcising? That's what it came down to for us--- all my husband had was his "gut" but he knew that there was no true reason to do it and ultimately I think it was his logical side that won out.
Unfortunately, logic is not my husband's strong suit. If you know Myers-Briggs temperaments - he's an ENFP. He makes decisions based on subjective feelings and values (basically, his "gut"), so I need to find some way to put things in those terms for him - which (as an INTP) is not my strong suit. If I can get him to watch some of the videos of a circumcision, that might help, but I think he'll be more willing to respond to it if he decides to look on his own.

Always,
Jill

Mom to DD (6/08), DS (3/10), and babyf.gifdue 6/12

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#124 of 152 Old 10-29-2009, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have either of you watched the Penn and Teller circumcision episode?
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#125 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 12:15 AM
 
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Have either of you watched the Penn and Teller circumcision episode?
No, but I saw it mentioned somewhere else on here as well. I don't know what it is, but I'll do an web search for it and check it out.
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#126 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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No, but I saw it mentioned somewhere else on here as well. I don't know what it is, but I'll do an web search for it and check it out.
Season 3 Episode 1, see more here. You can rent it from netflix or elsewhere.
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#127 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 12:48 AM
 
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The only medical reasons for circ are frostbite, gangrene and cancer so as you can imagine the odds of him needing circed now or later are very very low. Let it rest and when it comes up again talk to him in the end it is your decision to make only you can sign the consent in the hospital after you leave that changes though.

 
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#128 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 12:41 PM
 
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Hi Jill,

My husband wanted to have our ds cut, for "hygiene" and "it is what we do in this country" reasons. He was adament that he never suffered (or his brothers) from any negative affects and does not remember the pain because "Hey, that was 41 years ago."

I had a home birth so that put the actual event of mutalation 6 months further down the road. When my son did eventually turn 6 months old, my husband and I were driving to dinner having a happy convo when he asked me when I was going to call the surgeon and make arrangements to have it done. It got really icey in the car suddenly as I went dead silent.

Finally, he asked what was wrong. I told him that I was not going to make the call. If he wanted it done, he would have to make the appointment, take him to the office, buy formula as I would not continue to breastfeed (I know - that was really low,) and he would have to take a month off of work as I would not change the diapers and deal with a mangled penis (I know - even lower.)

In the back of my mind I knew this back door approach of getting my way would work though - and it did. I had tried logic and education. I showed him the mutalation video. I had tried everything else. It was my only and last ditch effort I had. My son's penis is whole.

My husband and I still have heated debates (I won't call them fights) about it. My husband is convinced that one day both my son and I are going to be very sorry that he was not circumcised. He is constantly throwing stats of this or that at me. My favorite is the one about men in Africa clamoring to be circ'd now because of some HIV statistic that is out there. Hmmm, couldn't be a life style choice there - no it is because the men are intact that they have a high HIV rate....

I'm very thankful that my third and last baby was a girl. AND I am extremely thankful that my first was a girl as I was not as educated, had her in the hospital, and my husband would have had his way.

I wish my husband and I were in agreement, I hate that we have this one sore point between us, but it is worth it for my son't sake.

Peace.
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#129 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Jill,

My husband wanted to have our ds cut, for "hygiene" and "it is what we do in this country" reasons. He was adament that he never suffered (or his brothers) from any negative affects and does not remember the pain because "Hey, that was 41 years ago."

I had a home birth so that put the actual event of mutalation 6 months further down the road. When my son did eventually turn 6 months old, my husband and I were driving to dinner having a happy convo when he asked me when I was going to call the surgeon and make arrangements to have it done. It got really icey in the car suddenly as I went dead silent.

Finally, he asked what was wrong. I told him that I was not going to make the call. If he wanted it done, he would have to make the appointment, take him to the office, buy formula as I would not continue to breastfeed (I know - that was really low,) and he would have to take a month off of work as I would not change the diapers and deal with a mangled penis (I know - even lower.)

In the back of my mind I knew this back door approach of getting my way would work though - and it did. I had tried logic and education. I showed him the mutalation video. I had tried everything else. It was my only and last ditch effort I had. My son's penis is whole.

My husband and I still have heated debates (I won't call them fights) about it. My husband is convinced that one day both my son and I are going to be very sorry that he was not circumcised. He is constantly throwing stats of this or that at me. My favorite is the one about men in Africa clamoring to be circ'd now because of some HIV statistic that is out there. Hmmm, couldn't be a life style choice there - no it is because the men are intact that they have a high HIV rate....

I'm very thankful that my third and last baby was a girl. AND I am extremely thankful that my first was a girl as I was not as educated, had her in the hospital, and my husband would have had his way.

I wish my husband and I were in agreement, I hate that we have this one sore point between us, but it is worth it for my son't sake.

Peace.
Your son will probably feel like he dodged a bullet.
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#130 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 06:43 PM
 
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I want to remind everyone of the TCAC guidelines:
Quote:
This is not a space to bash others. In an effort to minimize language which might alienate those seeking information, we are cautious about using pejorative terms such as abuse, barbarism, mutilation, etc. when routinely discussing circumcision. Let the facts speak for themselves.

 
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#131 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 07:33 PM
 
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Hello, I'm sort of a lurker here mainly because I'm due in a month and we don't know if it's a boy or a girl yet. I am from Canada where circ is not so common anymore but I'm living in WA with my DH who is a US citizen and it seems as though the entire population around here has a pro-circ mentality. We planned to have the baby in Canada but I'm not allowed to leave the US while the green card process is underway and so it looks like we are having it here now.

I brought up the circ issue with DH when we first found out I was pregnant and it was the most heated argument we have ever had. I told him that under no circumstances will our son (if it is a boy) be circ'd. His main argument for circ'ing is his religious beliefs which I believe is his way of winning the argument as there is no real rebuttal against that. In the end and after many words, he agreed to leave it up to our child. My argument was that it is not our decision to change or alter in any way that which belongs to the body it is attached to, not ours. I told him that if our son wanted it done later on that I would be happy to take him provided he knows that is actually what he wants. So we never talked about it again after that.

A little backround....My IL's have felt from the beginning that they have a say as to what happens with 'their' grandchildren. Everything from handing us a list of BOYS names that they 'approve', to parenting choices, to toys, to colours for the baby's room lol. They live 20 min away and they drive me nuts (that's putting it nicely).

Well, last weekend they brought up circumcision. I don't even remember how they brought it up but we were sitting at the dinner table and MIL says:
"It's definitely best to do it to them when they are babies and don't know any better" I was floored!
My reply: "Well that won't be a problem anyway"
FIL: "What do you mean?"
Me: "We won't be circ'ing"
MIL and FIL: "WHAT!? You can't do that! You NEED to circ!"
Me: "Um, no we don't. We have already discussed this and I don't feel it's necessary to put a baby through that kind of pain"
MIL: "They don't remember anyway and it's not like they feel it"
FIL: "You HAVE to do it! All boys need to be circ'd and it prevents HIV and other things!"
Me: "Actually no it doesn't. I have done A LOT of research on this and it's not medically necessary! In Canada you have a hard time finding a doctor in a lot of places who will perform one anymore, And it's even more rare in many European countries."
MIL looking at me like I'm from another planet...
FIL: "Well it's not like Canada blah blah blah" Something about Canada being a third world country basically.....I'm not kidding.
FIL: "That's disgusting! It's DIRTY!"
Me: "It was put there for a damn reason and there is no way I'm cutting it off and that's that!"
FIL: "My grandson blah blah blah......" he mumbled it and I couldn't hear.

Meanwhile my DH is looking at me like I have just talked back to God Almighty himself. I was left feeling completely isolated and I almost wanted to cry. The rest of the night wasn't quite the same. Everyone was uncomfortable.

I know what I'm going to say if they EVER decide to bring it up again but I'm having issues with everything else too. I do not want them to be a big part of my life and some part of me is worried that they will have a huge influence on their son (my DH). Has anyone else had issues about defending your decision to your IL's?

I guess my introduction was more of a vent/question lol...

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#132 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 10:17 PM
 
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Am a doctor-- have been trained to do circs. Would never ever ever have my son circ'd and discourage it. Still trying to figure out on where I stand on parent's right to make medical decisions for the child vs. personally refusing to perform them due to belief it is genital mutilation... had the issue brought up by an anthropology prof in college and have been anti-circ since.
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#133 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Am a doctor-- have been trained to do circs. Would never ever ever have my son circ'd and discourage it. Still trying to figure out on where I stand on parent's right to make medical decisions for the child vs. personally refusing to perform them due to belief it is genital mutilation... had the issue brought up by an anthropology prof in college and have been anti-circ since.

The child is your patient...not the parent. You have to do what is in the best interest of your patient. It is unethical to solicit or do cosmetic surgery on a non consenting person. The child is certainly not consenting. First - Do no harm.

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#134 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by SilvanaRose View Post
Hello, I'm sort of a lurker here mainly because I'm due in a month and we don't know if it's a boy or a girl yet. I am from Canada where circ is not so common anymore but I'm living in WA with my DH who is a US citizen and it seems as though the entire population around here has a pro-circ mentality. We planned to have the baby in Canada but I'm not allowed to leave the US while the green card process is underway and so it looks like we are having it here now.

I brought up the circ issue with DH when we first found out I was pregnant and it was the most heated argument we have ever had. I told him that under no circumstances will our son (if it is a boy) be circ'd. His main argument for circ'ing is his religious beliefs which I believe is his way of winning the argument as there is no real rebuttal against that. In the end and after many words, he agreed to leave it up to our child. My argument was that it is not our decision to change or alter in any way that which belongs to the body it is attached to, not ours. I told him that if our son wanted it done later on that I would be happy to take him provided he knows that is actually what he wants. So we never talked about it again after that.

A little backround....My IL's have felt from the beginning that they have a say as to what happens with 'their' grandchildren. Everything from handing us a list of BOYS names that they 'approve', to parenting choices, to toys, to colours for the baby's room lol. They live 20 min away and they drive me nuts (that's putting it nicely).

Well, last weekend they brought up circumcision. I don't even remember how they brought it up but we were sitting at the dinner table and MIL says:
"It's definitely best to do it to them when they are babies and don't know any better" I was floored!
My reply: "Well that won't be a problem anyway"
FIL: "What do you mean?"
Me: "We won't be circ'ing"
MIL and FIL: "WHAT!? You can't do that! You NEED to circ!"
Me: "Um, no we don't. We have already discussed this and I don't feel it's necessary to put a baby through that kind of pain"
MIL: "They don't remember anyway and it's not like they feel it"
FIL: "You HAVE to do it! All boys need to be circ'd and it prevents HIV and other things!"
Me: "Actually no it doesn't. I have done A LOT of research on this and it's not medically necessary! In Canada you have a hard time finding a doctor in a lot of places who will perform one anymore, And it's even more rare in many European countries."
MIL looking at me like I'm from another planet...
FIL: "Well it's not like Canada blah blah blah" Something about Canada being a third world country basically.....I'm not kidding.
FIL: "That's disgusting! It's DIRTY!"
Me: "It was put there for a damn reason and there is no way I'm cutting it off and that's that!"
FIL: "My grandson blah blah blah......" he mumbled it and I couldn't hear.

Meanwhile my DH is looking at me like I have just talked back to God Almighty himself. I was left feeling completely isolated and I almost wanted to cry. The rest of the night wasn't quite the same. Everyone was uncomfortable.

I know what I'm going to say if they EVER decide to bring it up again but I'm having issues with everything else too. I do not want them to be a big part of my life and some part of me is worried that they will have a huge influence on their son (my DH). Has anyone else had issues about defending your decision to your IL's?

I guess my introduction was more of a vent/question lol...
Welcome to the board. Your son is such a lucky boy to have parents who are standing up for him. I thought it was a good intro by the way. Might I suggest that you post the question to the forum in its own thread? There are others here with similar stories and I am sure they'll contribute but if it's buried in this thread it might get overlooked.
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#135 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Am a doctor-- have been trained to do circs. Would never ever ever have my son circ'd and discourage it. Still trying to figure out on where I stand on parent's right to make medical decisions for the child vs. personally refusing to perform them due to belief it is genital mutilation... had the issue brought up by an anthropology prof in college and have been anti-circ since.
Welcome to the board dollysods. It's nice to have a doctor introduce herself. I wouldn't mind talking about this issue with you and seeing where it would lead. The problem is we can't debate here. (Even though it seems clear that you are personally against it). I'd say if you're personally refusing to do them yourself and so long as you're explaining that as best you can, and don't provide a referral, you've got the bases covered.

I see it like this, if the west were innocent of circumcision and it was presented on the grounds it is now (the purported benefits) what would the reaction be?
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#136 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 11:04 PM
 
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SilvanaRose, Good for you for sticking up for your son. Some day he will thank you!!
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#137 of 152 Old 10-30-2009, 11:09 PM
 
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My first son was circ'd due to my husband and I not knowing any better, but now I am pregnant with our second son and this time we know better!! My family seems to be pretty against it, and so was my husband at first, but after he did his research he's on my side now We know what is right and that is all that matters. My son had some minor issues when he was circ'd and my husband has very distinctive scarring due to his circ. and we just think it would be best not to put our new little one through any of that. (We also are not circ. due to our religious beliefs) Yay. for all the lucky little boys to come!!

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#138 of 152 Old 11-03-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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Hi, I'm Chris. This forum has been a HUGE help for me with my son. First, it gave me the information to tell dh and keep our baby intact. Then, when he had a UTI at 4 months, more help and info to take to the dr. He didn't have any more trouble until this summer (at almost 5 yr), when he had another UTI. I found more good stuff, especially how to deal with a VCUG, and fortunately he is fine (maybe mild reflux but we don't know for sure since he couldn't void for the test). I'm not a big poster but I love it as a resource or pick-me-up! Thanks, everybody!
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#139 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am seeing a lot of new folks so introduce yourself.
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#140 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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I am not sure if I am a lurker so much as just busy!

I have one daughter, and my husband was born in Russia and is intact. My first exposure to circumcision was when my brother was circumcised. I remember that it looked terrible and painful and scary, and when I asked my mom, she acted like it was completely normal and ok. I remember feeling a little scared and upset that she knew and allowed this to happen to my brother, but her calm, matter-of-fact attitude caused me to doubt my natural reaction, and circumcision became normalized for me. I was 7.

Shortly after I met my husband, my views on circumcision were challenged again. Somehow I had come across some reading on FGM, and I was deeply disturbed by it. I talked to my husband about it, and how awful it was, and how could anyone do that to their little girl?? He said, it happens to boys all the time. I said, but that's different. He said, how? How, indeed. I went home and researched online for a few hours, and became adamantly against circumcision for all people. I am so thankful that my husband is intact and nudged me to find out the truth about circumcision.
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#141 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 12:45 PM
 
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I lurk here. I have an intact 2 year old boy and any future boys will be too! Haven't had any problems and have a good, knowledegable family doctor (who came from the UK, actually) who said the majority of her boy patients are intact.

I have relatives who are supportive, a few who are a bit baffled, and 1 who is "concerned" about the "HIV risk," but understands that my son can choose for himself when he's an adult. (IMO, those studies are bunk anyway; and I think there are plenty of other ways to prevent HIV. But this is a relative who had close friends die of HIV, so he's very concerned about it in general, which I try to respect.)

Happy with my DH, 2 kids, dog, fish, and frogs
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#142 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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Hi All,

I'm one of your minority of male members. I have read the boards on a wide variety of topics for a few years now , actually, and formally registered about a year ago. They've been a tremendous resource in my outreach work. I know some of you in person and a few others may recognize me, though I use my middle name here. I've been an ardent intactivist since high school, actually doing a research paper on circumcision for my senior year with the resources at the Library of Congress -- and let me tell you, those resources were meager when I started. But I sat there every week for months as a 17-year-old duly researching why we were doing this crazy thing to ourselves.

I appear a number of times in the PBS-aired video Whose Body, Whose Rights? -- now in 6 parts on youtube -- and have been involved with parenting and childcare issues for just about all my adult life. I'm passionate about doing right by our kids; they're our future.

My friends are well aware of my intactivist stance, and I estimate that I've saved about 200 boys from being routinely circumcised. I've worked so many fairs, parades, conferences and symposia that I've long since lost track of numbers . The first few years, I just absorbed all I could, but more recently I'm not hesitating to speak out. As you can imagine, I have about a million anecdotes, and from time to time I'll bore y'all with a story or two.

The only one I'll share here today fills me with pride. If Sherman will kindly set the WABAC machine a few years back, we'll find ourselves sitting in a riverboat restaurant in Cincinnati as my college roommate fills me in on the impending birth of his first child. He detailed the whole birth plan they'd worked out, and I asked him what they were thinking about circumcision. He was caught off guard that there was even anything to think about; they were just automatically going to circumcise. So, I briefly launched into my first-ever spiel about how unnecessary and harmful it was, and how his son would thank him later for having the presence of mind to actively keep him intact. I'd brought some reading material, and my buddy said he'd review it with me later that night after his wife had gone to bed. He wanted to know it thoroughly before even bringing up the issue with her. I'll save the long story for another day, but... tomorrow my brilliant, handsome, accomplished godson leaves behind his teen years and turns 20. He's intact, like his younger brother, and very, very glad to be. We're very close, and recently he's asked me how and why I'm involved with intactivism, so pretty soon he's going to learn the drill. I hope he influences many of his friends and of course keeps his own children intact when he becomes a dad. Billy was my first "save" and I could not be prouder of the fine young man he's become. I'm so proud of his folks, too, for going against the convention of the day and holding steady in the face of disapproval/doubt from just about every corner.

And finally, I'm in awe of the unity and sharing of information here. You truly are Mama Bears when it comes to protecting your kids and educating yourselves and your families and friends.
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#143 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 02:33 PM
 
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Brant31,
Your story inspires me and gives me hope!

Mom &  RN   intactivist.gif
Pardon the typos - CWOK (cat walking on keyboard)   signcirc1.gif

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#144 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 06:47 PM
 
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Brant31,
Your story inspires me and gives me hope!
Ditto! So wonderful.

Mama to my love (4.22.09)
signcirc1.gif
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#145 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 11:08 PM
 
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I am a lurker, and have posted maybe a handful of times.

I don't have any kids yet, but I will definitely not be circumcising. I hadn't really thought about it until a few years ago. As I do with practically everything, I began researching it when DH and I started discussing TTC. I quickly came to the conclusion that it was not anything that I wanted any part of. I tried to talk to DH about it, and of course, he shot me down right away. Basically like, I'm on board with most of your "weird" stuff, but this is taking it too far.

I brought it up a couple more times after that, to test the water, so to speak. He didn't really want to talk about it. Then, lo and behold, he decided to research HIMSELF without even telling me, and ever since, he's been totally on board.

Ever since that happened about three years ago, I'm becoming more and more pro-intact. It's one of the "parenting" things I am extremely adamant about. (CIO is the other one. Obviously against.)

Still TTC that baby, though.

Mama to learning.gifJulian Matthew, born 5/10/2011 nocirc.gif  

Hopeful vbac.gif for the next!

 

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#146 of 152 Old 12-18-2009, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
I lurk here. I have an intact 2 year old boy and any future boys will be too! Haven't had any problems and have a good, knowledegable family doctor (who came from the UK, actually) who said the majority of her boy patients are intact.
I love hearing stories like this. It makes me think that there are more lucky boys than we think.


Glad to see so many check in, I hope to see you all contribute more in the future.
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#147 of 152 Old 12-29-2009, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#148 of 152 Old 12-29-2009, 09:23 PM
 
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I've lurked here for years and just started posting on the boards. I've learned so much from your threads here! Both of my sons are intact. With the first one we honestly had no clue what to do. When DH and I started to research, I came upon this board among many other resources. It was really a no-brainer for us. Once we saw how barbaric and unnecessary circ is, I've really become an opponent of it to anyone who will listen.

Oh, and my DH is circed (child of the early 70s) and he was completely open to our sons "not looking like him" LOL. In fact, he has no idea if his father is circed or not and I don't know about mine either! We also talked about the locker room argument (as a woman I honestly had no clue). He told me "guys do anything they can to avoid looking at each other's privates in those situations."

Thanks for all the wonderful info you've provided me over the years!

Laura, momma to DS1 12/12/06 and DS2 6/5/08
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#149 of 152 Old 12-29-2009, 10:19 PM
 
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Hiya!

I lurk here because I'm on a few other mainstream message boards and every now and then I just need a breath of fresh air.

Mama to a couple of full-moon caul-bearing rockstar girls:
9yo and brand new as of 4/28/10!
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#150 of 152 Old 12-29-2009, 10:22 PM
 
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Just a quick reminder.
Per the TCAC guidelines:
Quote:
The discussion of or reference to religion is outside of the scope of this forum. Any posts which bring any aspect of religion into the discussion are not appropriate and will be removed. Respectful discussion of a religious nature regarding circumcision, alternatives, etc. may be hosted in the Spirituality forum. The Spirituality forum is a debate-free zone. Members maintain a list of helpful websites in a Web Resources thread for further information about religious issues.

 
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