Did anyone else refuse consent even though their so wanted to circ? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 49 Old 07-30-2009, 08:04 PM
 
tutucrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
By leaving him intact you give HIM the choice over the function and appearance of his most private area. Your DH has no right to impose his personal sexual preferences on his child. Your child is the one who ought be respected. It is his body to respect not your husband's. Good for you for sticking to your guns. I also recommend ordering a NOCIRC/I'm intact, don't retract onsie from cafepress for when he is at the hospital.

http://clothing.cafepress.com/item/i...eeper/56361189

Momma to DS (2/08) and #2 due 10/11.
 
tutucrazy is offline  
#32 of 49 Old 07-31-2009, 03:57 AM
 
robertandenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the only thing I can say right now is GOOD FOR YOU!!! : Im so glad u made your decision of letting your son decide.

Latina Mama of 3 and Wife of a great man since 1997
: : : : : : :
robertandenith is offline  
#33 of 49 Old 07-31-2009, 04:36 AM
 
LiLStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 3,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
my dh is pretty pro-circ.. and I've been working on him the whole friggin time we've been married, but he still hasn't quite come around. He hasn't really been all that vocal about it. He REALLY hates the topic. Towards the end of my pregnancy in particular, I tried to be really gentle on him and ask if there was something in particular (ie, not obvious) that makes circ especially difficult to discuss, and why foreskin bothered him so much. He had said before that the mere thought/sight of foreskin really bothered him and he couldn't stand to think about it or even see it. No explanation why. I told him he could write it out in a letter if he wanted, so he could get it out of his system all at once without me interrupting him. I told him that the topic NEEDED to come up soon so we could come to some sort of peace about it. I gave him time to gather his thoughts. When I was really close to term, I insisted we have "the talk". I told him I really wanted to listen to him and understand his side. I don't remember too much of what he said.. I think one was that he'd heard of "lots" of guys who got circed (by choice) as adults and were glad they did, hated being intact, thought sex with a foreskin was "like having sex with themselves" He also said that it wasn't fair that I got to make the decision all by myself (I did make it crystal clear long before we were even engaged that there were certain things that were not negotiable, and circing was one of them. he married me and got me pregnant knowing this fully!)

Then I told him my side. And not so much the reasons that I'm against circ, because I've spent the last 3 years shoving THAT down his throat, more or less. I explained that it was important to me, now more than ever, that he accept ds as he is, intact. I told him I didn't expect him to like it, or be necessarily happy about it, but as I neared labor, I needed to feel that this was a "safe" home for him to be born into. I needed to be certain that his dad was capable of loving and bonding with him. I needed to be certain that there wasn't suddenly going to be pressure to circ after his birth. I told him that I didn't expect him to change any diapers at all (until he's old enough that i'm comfy leaving the house without him!) I explained that his attitude was causing me a LOT of stress and that I worried that it would delay labor (or cause it to stall) because I feel as though he is safer on the inside. My body would protect my baby. I didn't think I would be capable of going into labor until this was resolved. And I played to his reason that if he went too far past his due date we wouldn't make it to his sister's wedding, and that would just suck!

After that, he agreed to "accept" it as long as I changed MY attitude on something that bothered/hurt him (something not related to parenting at all and completely within my power to change, I should add) and I have kept my word 100% even if I dont "like" it. I should add we had a home birth so there was never a risk of it happening in the hospital without my consent.

dd (7) ds (5), ds (2) &3rdtri.gif hbac.gif and the furbabies cat.gifZeus, Dobby, Luna, & Ravenclaw
LiLStar is online now  
#34 of 49 Old 07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
 
mquester's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Alright, I lean towards passive-aggressive when faced with conflict so here is my suggestion.

I would stop shoving information down his throat. I would explain to his that this is a very stressful time for you and you want to be able to enjoy what remains of your pregnancy. Ask him for time. 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, whatever you pick.

Tell him you aren't able to deal with conflict right now, and you will be miserable following birth if your new son is hurt, even for a second. Ask your husband to wait a certain length of time, and at the end of that time period you can discuss how you both feel about circumcision for your son and you will seriously consider what he wants then.

It will give you a chance to relax, let him feel like he has some control over the situation and hopefully he'll become used to your son's anatomy and won't care once that time period is out. Even if he does, it gives you months to gather documentation and find a pedicatrician who will support your stance.

Also, make it quite clear to him that if he won't respect your feelings on this and tries to have your son circumcised on his own it is a marriage "dealbreaker" and he will be divorced quickly afterwards. I know my husband was shocked when I told him how serious I felt about harm coming to my child. I explained if I couldn't trust him in this, I couldn't trust him in any part of our marriage anyway.

Best of luck,
MQ
mquester is offline  
#35 of 49 Old 08-01-2009, 03:01 PM
 
freestyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My DH was pro-circ until I got him to read more about it and see some pictures and explicit discussion of circumcision and what it does to babies. BLECH. It's horrible. I would NEVER EVER EVER give consent for my baby to be injured. Never in a million years. And I don't care who has a problem with it. Circumcision is just as wrong as female genital mutilation.
freestyler is offline  
#36 of 49 Old 08-04-2009, 04:59 PM
 
smeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
The problem is there IS no happy medium to circ. In his mindset it ISN'T fair that he gets no say and intact is intact, so ultimately you get your way 100% on the issue. But if you were to agree to circ then he would get HIS way 100% and it would be equally unfair to you! Either way, SOMEONE is going to feel "betrayed." You can't just do half-and-half with circumcision. Therefore the ONLY medium that exists is to wait and reevaluate later after you've had a happy and whole baby for some time and if conflict still exists then let the child decide when he's old enough.

Obviously, it should be that way no matter what as it's a permanent cosmetic decision. But in a situation like this it IS the only "medium" that exists. Purely in regards to the parents, not taking into account the actual child whom is being affected the utmost, SOMEONE will lose. At least the pro-circ parent has a chance at winning later on down the road. Once done, the anti-circ parent will lose for good.

But of course we all agree there is no winning, and the true person that loses is the child if circ is done, but I'm purely speaking on HIS mindset.

- Emy . Single mom to DS nut.gif Ezra (15.12.05), angel2.gif Thames (reincarnated 18.04.08) and DD rainbow1284.gif babyf.gif Allora (11.02.11) and dog2.gif Hoppylactivist.gif  novaxnocirc.gif  waterbirth.jpg fambedsingle2.gif bfinfant.giffemalesling.GIFcd.gif

smeep is offline  
#37 of 49 Old 08-04-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Fyrestorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some one here (not sure if it was the vax boards or here in CAC) said something very wise once.

When it comes to parenting decisions, if it's elective and not the natural approach, than it must require two yes answers."

Should we formula feed? 1 yes and 1 no = no.

Should we vaccinate? 1 yes and 1 no = no.

Should we circumcise? 1 yes and 2 no's (the second no would be the baby) = no.

and as stated before, the one who would be most betrayed here would be the one getting his primary sexual organ chopped up.

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
Fyrestorm is offline  
#38 of 49 Old 08-04-2009, 06:40 PM
 
Louisep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Atlanta,GA
Posts: 721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My DH also let me "call the shots" on everything and I said to him that he could choose about circumcision if he did the research into it. Once he read up on it he didn't want DS circ-ed. DH was not as set against non-circing from the start, but I wonder if you ask him to research into it first it might help him change his mind? It's kind of different if they read up on it themselves instead of taking "our" word for it.

Good luck, this is tough for you.

babyboy.gif: 01/10/2009 and 09/29/2011

Louisep is offline  
#39 of 49 Old 08-04-2009, 07:35 PM
 
swd12422's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I agree w/ PPs that maybe you could convince him that it really isn't up to either of you -- it should be your son's choice. Yes, you "win" for now, but it's irreversible surgery and neither of you really knows what your son will want.

I always remember how bitter my grandmother was (even in her 80's) that she had unwanted holes pierced in her ears. Her mother had them done when she was a baby, and she never liked wearing earrings, but hated how the empty holes looked even more. So she wore earrings every day to hide the holes, and hated every minute of it. She tried to let them close a few times, and they wouldn't...

And ear lobes don't hold a candle to a guy's penis in terms of importance!
swd12422 is online now  
#40 of 49 Old 08-20-2009, 05:53 PM
 
skylarsmom08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I 2nd (4th, 5th,100th) the opinion that you should "compromise" and ask your husband to wait a specific amount of time after your DS is here before resuming talks about it.
I would also make it a "requirement" (don't know if that's the right word) that he should have to watch how it is done...with sound. I can't get through even 5 seconds of it without wanting to cry.
Hopefully he's so enamored with his son that he won't be able to fathom putting him through that kind of pain and you can both rest easy with the decision.
If he says he can't wait til your son is older, I would really have him examine his feelings and figure out why it has to be done at a few days old.
My husband lets me "make the decisions" when it comes to this kind of stuff (vax, drug-free birth, homebirth, etc) but that's because he knows I research everything and only have good intentions (and I know he doesn't want to do all the research himself). But by "defaulting" to me on these decisions, he's making a decision as well. If he had objected to anything I decided to do/not do, it's his responsibility to speak up--same goes for your husband. He didn't have any objections for "your" other decisions, so he agreed with them. He can't throw them in your face now and say "you got A, i get B"--you both got A.
Sorry you're in this situation...I'm sure your husband with "forgive" you for putting your foot down, just give it time.

Daryl~~ to Troy~~SAHM to Skylar (5/21/09) and Dylan (9/23/09)
skylarsmom08 is offline  
#41 of 49 Old 08-24-2009, 01:33 PM
 
abiyhayil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We only mentioned circ once, the LC who taught our baby class told us that circ is unnecessary and showed us pictures We both looked at each other and shook our heads in disbelief. At the hospital right after birth, DH says he would really like DS circed (in a thats final kind of way) I said it was up to him and signed consent and the numbing cream was put on. The dr had just finished telling us that it is medically unnecessary and barbaric. Dh said 'do it and I want to be there' he left to eat with his parents and i broke down with my mom there. She stood up for me and reassured me that its ok to protect my baby and say no. DH is always very headstrong and I knew he had made up his mind, but I told him no (probably the first time ever and its been easier standing up for myself ever since1) and he told me basically what your DH said. The next month every one he told everyone how I was responsible for my sons future social isolation because he was intact. I cried A LOT thinking how close I came to letting my perfectly innocent baby be hurt and irrevocably changed. I took to the task of researching intact care and found MDC He now acknowledges the research and facts but is still not convinced that he won't have a penis problem at school and with girls

><> Mom to superhero.gif (6) hearts.gif (4) energy.gif (2) and baby.gif (born March!)
abiyhayil is online now  
#42 of 49 Old 08-24-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Yaliina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hampton, Virginia
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momalea View Post
I wasn't in the same situation because my dh was fine with not circumcising, however he didn't see what the big deal was all about. However, once ds was born he felt very strongly about not circ because he couldn't imagine intentionally causing his baby pain. So, maybe your dh will have a change of heart once your ds is born.

My heart goes out to you, if my dh felt strongly about circ I would have fought him as well and that's hardly the stress you need when you're pregnant/post-partum.
:

Wife to luxlove.gifsince '98; selectivevax.gifintactlact.giffamilybed2.gifcd.gif  Homeschooling, working on my doctorate & becoming crunchier by the day; Mom to ribboncesarean.gif DSs: banana.gif06/10,broc1.gif12/05, & angel2.gif1/99.
Yaliina is offline  
#43 of 49 Old 08-27-2009, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
ashleedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DH and I have not revisited the topic, and I don't plan on being the one to bring it up. I spoke to my pediatrician and also to my ob to find out exactly what to expect, regarding the hospital's policies on consent, etc. My OB said this, "OUR group (4 doctors) are the only ones permitted to do the circumcision. We'll come by and ask you about it the morning after you give birth when we do our check up on you - and if you don't want it, you don't sign anything, we just don't do it. NO ONE else has permission or authority at that hospital to TOUCH him, except us, and ONLY us with YOUR consent. In fact, you have to sign a consent, then *I* have to sign a consent form stating that I SAW your consent form, and the nurse that assists me has to sign one that she saw ME read your form and sign my own. It WILL NOT happen unless YOU want it to, and your husband can not consent to it - only YOU can. I'll write it in your chart right now that you don't want it, and if you want to, you can mention it at every appointment until he's born and we'll continue to write it down so it's on the top of your chart every week and we likely won't even ASK you at the hospital if we see it noted in the chart."

So, basically, it's not happening - I'm refusing to allow it to happen to my son. If my dh has an issue with it, he'll learn to accept it, and realize that I am allowing this decision to belong to our son, not to either of us. I really think that it will become a non-issue fairly quickly, because when I DID try to bring it back up, he said he didn't want to talk about it, which to me, means that he realizes that it's something we won't see eye-to-eye on and he's just letting it go.

Thanks for all of your advice and support!

Our clan: Me (25), Dh (29), dd (6/19/08) and ds (10/2/09) :
ashleedio is offline  
#44 of 49 Old 08-27-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 12,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
: Great news, mama! I think it will become a non-issue over time once your dh meets and loves your ds *as a person and an individual, i.e. his son* and not just as the baby *you're* pregnant with.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#45 of 49 Old 08-27-2009, 09:00 PM
 
ShadowMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was in your exact same position. We had all the same arguments and dp gave the same reasons for wanting to circ as your dh did. I refused to budge and ds remains intact
Dp still resents me for it. It sometimes comes out in arguments or unrelated conversations if he gets upset enough. He still feels he was in the right and his son should have been circed. I still don't regret my decision and I hope that in time, dp comes around. Good luck and stay strong

S~ Peace loving, natural living, FuNkY vegan mama to Keiran bouncy.gif 23/Dec/06:
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" ~~ MLK
ShadowMoon is offline  
#46 of 49 Old 08-28-2009, 12:26 AM
 
ElliesMomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleedio View Post
I spoke to my pediatrician and also to my ob to find out exactly what to expect, regarding the hospital's policies on consent, etc. My OB said this, "OUR group (4 doctors) are the only ones permitted to do the circumcision. We'll come by and ask you about it the morning after you give birth when we do our check up on you - and if you don't want it, you don't sign anything, we just don't do it. NO ONE else has permission or authority at that hospital to TOUCH him, except us, and ONLY us with YOUR consent. In fact, you have to sign a consent, then *I* have to sign a consent form stating that I SAW your consent form, and the nurse that assists me has to sign one that she saw ME read your form and sign my own. It WILL NOT happen unless YOU want it to, and your husband can not consent to it - only YOU can. I'll write it in your chart right now that you don't want it, and if you want to, you can mention it at every appointment until he's born and we'll continue to write it down so it's on the top of your chart every week and we likely won't even ASK you at the hospital if we see it noted in the chart."
this is basically the same conversation i had with my midwife today. she also put it in my chart. she said that *I* am their patient, so what i say goes, not my husband's opinion on it. i'm still going to be vigilant in the hospital, however, to make sure there are no "medical errors" in this regard.

i was glad to read your post. i have a similar thread going now -- and your conversation with the OBs being almost the same as mine, gives me confidence.

i am also going around my husband's opinions on this matter. i don't think he realizes yet that it is incredibly painful for the baby, not medically necessary at all, and as you state the decision belongs to the child, not us.

what you and i are doing is not even making a decision. we are just letting our sons "be" the way they were born, for gosh sakes. we are refusing to surgically alter them, is all.

the husbands' "deciding" to have elective surgery on a newborn is a huge deal, versus the wives' "deciding" to simply take no action in that regard.

i'm right with you on this.

ElliesMomma is offline  
#47 of 49 Old 08-28-2009, 12:48 PM
 
dancindoula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: drowning in textbooks....help!
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by abiyhayil View Post
He now acknowledges the research and facts but is still not convinced that he won't have a penis problem at school and with girls
If it were me, the next time he brought it up I'd let him know that any girl that vapid wasn't worth my son's time. What other body part should he plan on surgically altering to be more attractive to "the girls"? Is that the message he wants to raise his son hearing? That we MUST always alter ourselves to fit EVERYONE ELSE'S notion of beauty? How shallow.

By the way, just how many girls does he want involved with your son's penis while he's in school???

Sorry if this sounds a bit strong, but that line of reasoning always hits a nerve with me.

"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." â E.B. White
dancindoula is offline  
#48 of 49 Old 08-29-2009, 02:00 PM
 
jenP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleedio View Post
he'll learn to accept it, and realize that I am allowing this decision to belong to our son, not to either of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliesMomma View Post
as you state the decision belongs to the child, not us.

what you and i are doing is not even making a decision. we are just letting our sons "be" the way they were born, for gosh sakes. we are refusing to surgically alter them, is all.

the husbands' "deciding" to have elective surgery on a newborn is a huge deal, versus the wives' "deciding" to simply take no action in that regard.
I had been thinking about this thread last night and came now to post, only to see you two saying basically what I was thinking!
You're right, as the mom not consenting to surgery you are not "making a decision" at all. You are simply leaving any decisions up to your son. It is the dad who wants to decide to do drastic surgery.

If your husband feels upset that you "get to make all the parenting decisions," maybe it would help for him to
A)Participate more in the decisions! If you are making most of the decisions, you are probably doing most of the research. He can read and research and discuss too and feel much more involved in his child's life
and
B) realize that, although as new parents you have many decisions to make, circumcision is NOT one of them! Circumcision is not a "parenting decision" that he is "letting" you make. It is a cosmetic body modification decision that your son can think about when he is older.

HTH, and all the best to you! Glad it sounds like things are working out!

Jen
jenP is offline  
#49 of 49 Old 08-30-2009, 01:44 AM
 
natural_mama89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
Well, what it sounds like is from the start (in some in direct way) that "your idea was right, and his was wrong, and to prove it here is evidence why your wrong".

If thats true, I think a major issue he has here is less about the circumcision and more that (as he says) feels "betrayed" and hurt. Because instead of raising the baby together, you have picked it up and ran off saying you know whats best.

What you need to do is stop with the facts, and points proving your right. Instead sit down with him and ask him why he wants it done, let him express his side.

Here is a key line from your post, "However, my mind is made up and my son WILL remain intact."

Not to sound rude, but just as much as your husband has no right to circumcise him, you have no right to say he must be intact. Thats the wrong wording.

You need to make it clear to your husband that this is not about what he wants, or what you want either. That all you want is your son to get to make this personal decision about his body, for HIMSELF. And the only way of doing that is keeping him intact. Tell him you will support whatever your son wants when he is 18, because all your trying to protect here is his choice.


With that, the discussion moves off "whose right" (which can just lead to hurt feelings) and moves to the health and happiness of your son. And thats a point both of you can have an easier time agreeing on.

Student and aspiring midwife mama to Angel: and Iris. Expecting a new sometime near Halloween! I am a all the way!!!!!
natural_mama89 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off