Feel bad for my nephew but feel bad for my sister.... - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My nephew is 6 months old. He was circ'd at about a week old. My sister and her husband didn't want to circ....but BIL was circ'd at the age of 6 because of recurring infections. I explained to my sister that it should've never happened, but BIL remembers going under anesthetic, and how much pain he was when he woke up and for WEEKS afterwards, blah blah blah. Still don't agree with them, but anyways, my sister let BIL make the choice because he was the one "traumatized".

So when my nephew was a week old, my sister brought him to the pediatric floor of the hospital. She thought the doctor said to meet her in the pediatric department so she went to the nurses station and explained that she was there to get DS circ'd. A couple of the nurses made the "pffffft" noise and turned their backs and the one nurse said "Umm...we have absolutely NOTHING to do with mutilating little boys here, so you can take him somewhere else". My sister burst into tears and went back down the hallway where she ran into the doctor who was doing the circumcision. My sister was already suffering from a bit of PPD but that pushed her over the edge.

I am all for genital integrity and am very much pro-intact, but I can't believe how the nurses handled it. They could've made the effort to explain to my sister the benefits of being intact, or the risks of circumcision, instead they pushed my sister deeper into the PPD hole.
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#2 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:33 PM
 
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I feel badly for your sister because of her PPD but I love the that nurses stood up for babies and seemed totally horrified by the prospect of circumcision on their floor. That's a hospital I'd feel totally comfortable birthing in.

And if your BIL was the one who wanted it done, why didn't HE take his son to do it? Why on earth did your one week PP sister have to do it???

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#3 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I feel badly for your sister because of her PPD but I love the that nurses stood up for babies and seemed totally horrified by the prospect of circumcision on their floor. That's a hospital I'd feel totally comfortable birthing in.

And if your BIL was the one who wanted it done, why didn't HE take his son to do it? Why on earth did your one week PP sister have to do it???
I gave birth in the same hospital and I wasn't even asked if my DS's was going to be circ'd. There's only one doctor out of the 8 that deliver there that will do the circ's.
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#4 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And if your BIL was the one who wanted it done, why didn't HE take his son to do it? Why on earth did your one week PP sister have to do it???
BIL was working.
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#5 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:43 PM
 
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Sheesh, we anti circ RNs are pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't
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#6 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:51 PM
 
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I'm sorry your sister had PPD, but I LOVE what those nurses said. LOVE it.
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#7 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:53 PM
 
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Sheesh, we anti circ RNs are pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't
A courteous "Sorry, we don't do circumcisions here" equals not damned.
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#8 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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I'm sorry that someone was so rude to your sister. My mother is an intactivist and was a maternity nurse for a very long time. She never would have treated someone in that manner. It is not helpful to make nasty rude comments to strangers about circ. That usually only pushes people in the opposite direction. Your sister probably wouldn't have fled if the nurse had offered her some information in a kind and caring way.

 
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#9 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sheesh, we anti circ RNs are pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't
You know, I'm anti-circ and dream of becoming a nurse some day, but I can never imagine speaking with another mother like that.
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#10 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:09 PM
 
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You know, I'm anti-circ and dream of becoming a nurse some day, but I can never imagine speaking with another mother like that.
Ditto--I work in a hospital postpartum unit, and start nursing school in January, I would never talk to someone like that.

CPST & mom

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#11 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:10 PM
 
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I hear over and over ON THIS FORUM, that we, as health care workers, need to stand up for babies and against circ. That's exactly what these nurses did!!! It was a visceral response. Just like we all have with this issue.

Yes it was rude, yes there are better ways to do it, but I have a feeling that if this wasn't involving someone's direct family member, this board would be thrilled with that resonse.

I often feel like my quiet "polite" intactivism isn't doin' the job. It's not enough to "not ask" about circ. It's not doing the trick to provide them links and resources and education! I'm on the front lines here. The ones who want to do it, DO IT ANYWAY! It's very discouraging when you do it the "right" way and it doesn't work. But I guess it's different when it's a theoretical issue and you don't have to confront this issue in a concrete way every time you go to work! Those nurses said what I feel like saying every time I have a family that chooses to circ.

And no I absolutely do not talk to anyone that way, but if anything could make me do it, it would be the issue of circumcision.
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#12 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:19 PM
 
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Well, if they have the info and still do it, it's their legal right as a parent. I wish it weren't but that's the truth. Short of physically preventing them from circ'ing, what else can you do?

CPST & mom

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#13 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:29 PM
 
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Yeah, it was unprofessional but at least they stood up for the poor babe when his own parents wouldn't

Mom of 3 sons and one daughter
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#14 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:30 PM
 
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Your story has me so conflicted and I think illustrates how hard this struggle is for many of us. We must condemn the practice but at the same time it could cause incidents like the one you describe. And while you don't want to hurt someone close to you (like a sibling) you want to make sure they don't hurt someone else close to you either. It's just so messed up.
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#15 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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Everyone needs to realize that this happened in Canada where the circ rate is only around 10%. It is looked upon by most people, medical or not, as unnecessary at the least and as mutilation at the most. It is a very different climate. The nurses were rude but I know I would be tempted to say the same thing. Many Mother's to be that I have spoken to are insulted and appalled that I would even ask them if they would do such a thing to their precious boys.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#16 of 68 Old 10-13-2009, 10:53 PM
 
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Your story has me so conflicted and I think illustrates how hard this struggle is for many of us. We must condemn the practice but at the same time it could cause incidents like the one you describe. And while you don't want to hurt someone close to you (like a sibling) you want to make sure they don't hurt someone else close to you either. It's just so messed up.
I thoroughly agree.

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#17 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:50 AM
 
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I often feel like my quiet "polite" intactivism isn't doin' the job. It's not enough to "not ask" about circ. It's not doing the trick to provide them links and resources and education! I'm on the front lines here. The ones who want to do it, DO IT ANYWAY! It's very discouraging when you do it the "right" way and it doesn't work.
The baby in the OP was still circ'd, so being nasty to her sister didn't help, either. I'm totally anti-circ myself. I can't even imagine how I'd react if a family member did it. But, I still don't see what something like the reaction in the OP is supposed to accomplish.

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#18 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 08:03 AM
 
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The baby in the OP was still circ'd, so being nasty to her sister didn't help, either. I'm totally anti-circ myself. I can't even imagine how I'd react if a family member did it. But, I still don't see what something like the reaction in the OP is supposed to accomplish.
:
As they say, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

That poor little boy
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#19 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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I am sorry your sister is suffering. I do think they made a classic fear based decision, which is rarely one that will bring peace. It would have been nice if the nurse had gently asked her if she was fully informed about circ. She may have been swayed. We don't automatically inherit every problem our parents have!

If I was a nurse I would feel like saying exactly the same thing, but I would hope I would be more diplomatic. I met Marilyn Milos and she is incredibly sweet and diplomatic in her approach.

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#20 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 11:10 AM
 
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As they say, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

That poor little boy
And his poor mom!
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#21 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 11:26 AM
 
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I just bet there was a fair chance those nurses could have changed the outcome with compassionate education.

Homeschooling mama to 6 year old DD.

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#22 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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This is Canada. If she had gotten as far as having an appointment made and be in the hospital looking for where she is supposed to go. She will have had to gotten past her doctor to find one who would do it unless she had one already, and even ones that do do it are usually pretty even in their presentation of the facts, though there are still some pro circ docs around. Family that will most likely discourage it. Sometimes they even have to travel out of province to get it done, though that doesn't seem to be the case here. They would of had to pay for it to be done, no provinces pay for it. I can see how these nurses were disgusted at her determination to get this baby circed, you have to be pretty determined here. It's not just a simple easy thing they do in the hospital before you leave. You have to search it out. I'm not defending the nurses but I can empathize with their disgust.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#23 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:08 PM
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I am taking my hat of in front of those brave nurses! It should have been a much better clue for your sister than "it's better to not circ because....". I mean they realized that her mind was made up and if anything could stop her...ANYTHING AT ALL...that would do it.
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I don't see how it was the nurses' job to make it any easier on her to circ that baby.

Melissa, wife to Brian, mommy to my home born, breastfeeding, sling-riding, sleep sharing, cloth diapered, intact kiddos Adam 11/09 and Leah 8/12.

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#25 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:20 PM
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You know, I'm anti-circ and dream of becoming a nurse some day, but I can never imagine speaking with another mother like that.
I would imagine it's because you haven't seen babies screaming in agony on a daily basis. That would sure do that for me.
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#26 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:23 PM
 
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Personally I think I'd have the same reaction there. As someone else said, this isn't the US where its offered and paid for and pretty much any doc will do it before even leaving the hospital.

I also feel bad for your sister but really....she made a decision based on fear of something that theres a 99% chance of never happening. She obviously still didn't want to do it, but she did it anyway. Had she been totally sure, she wouldn't have been so upset by the whole thing.

And as for both of them, in what world does it make sense to say "it hurt a lot and I remember being in so much pain for so long..." make you go hmmm...well then, lets just do that to our newborn baby. I really don't understand the reasoning there. What, since they wont remember it doesn't matter anymore? Yes, it does. He didn't even have to be awake for his!

My best friends husband was circ'd at 8 years old. He doesn't like to talk about it so my friend isn't sure why, but she's pretty sure it was either due to repeat infections or phimosis-ie he wasn't retractable. She thinks its the former though, apparently his mom was obsessive with cleanliness and even if she wasn't retracting and cleaning under there, she most definately used a lot of soap. Anyway, I was her surrogate, so the conversation came up with me in the middle of it. He said it was fine, not circing.

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I hear over and over ON THIS FORUM, that we, as health care workers, need to stand up for babies and against circ. That's exactly what these nurses did!!!
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#28 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is Canada. If she had gotten as far as having an appointment made and be in the hospital looking for where she is supposed to go. She will have had to gotten past her doctor to find one who would do it unless she had one already, and even ones that do do it are usually pretty even in their presentation of the facts, though there are still some pro circ docs around. Family that will most likely discourage it. Sometimes they even have to travel out of province to get it done, though that doesn't seem to be the case here. They would of had to pay for it to be done, no provinces pay for it. I can see how these nurses were disgusted at her determination to get this baby circed, you have to be pretty determined here. It's not just a simple easy thing they do in the hospital before you leave. You have to search it out. I'm not defending the nurses but I can empathize with their disgust.
No no no no no. There are 8 doctors who deliver babies in the hospital. The doctor who delivered my sisters baby was the one who circ'd him. You don't get to choose who delivers your baby. It is whoever is on call the day you go into labor. If it had been any of the other seven doctors, I'm sure he wouldn't have been circ'd. Sister did NOT have to go seek out a doctor. She delivered, doc asked her if she was going to circ, and doctor had the appointment made within a couple of hours.
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#29 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would imagine it's because you haven't seen babies screaming in agony on a daily basis. That would sure do that for me.
Like one of the PP said.....the circ rate here is about 10% and I'm actually guessing it's even less. I only know a handful of people who have circ'd their boys. The rest have left the intact. My DS was in the NICU for 5 days and I was with him from 7 am - 9 pm and I didn't see one single baby go in for a circumcision and that's where they do them.
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#30 of 68 Old 10-14-2009, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am taking my hat of in front of those brave nurses! It should have been a much better clue for your sister than "it's better to not circ because....". I mean they realized that her mind was made up and if anything could stop her...ANYTHING AT ALL...that would do it.
I don't see how it helped though! My sister is EASILY swayed by medical authorities. She's one that will trust ANYTHING a nurse or doctor says. She was so emotionally distraught after what those nurses said that she said she could barely even walk. She just put her son in the doctors arms, sat down and cried. I'm 99.9% sure that if one of the nurses had spoke with her and asked her if she was informed on the risks of circumcision and benefits of being intact, she would've changed her mind. The ONLY reason she did it was because she didn't want him to have to be circ'd when he was older because of the trauma BIL went through when he had to get circ'd when he was 6 years old.
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