1 year WBV/ doc fully retracted foreskin - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am so angry, Today was my sons 1 year WBV and the doctor fully retracted his foreskin and gave me some bull crap line about my son cant retract fully and will need to be circumcised in 2 months unless me and DH retract him at least twice a day! I am so angry I will never go back to that office! Hes one freaking year old, I WILL NOT retract him. How sad is it that a doctor who went through like 10 years of schooling is dumber than me? Ok end of my rant I am just so angry I had to tell someone and no one IRL gets it.
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#2 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 07:44 PM
 
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How sad is it that a doctor who went through like 10 years of schooling is dumber than me?
Chances are high your doctor has no foreskin himself and was taught absolutely nothing about foreskin function or development and was only taught to cut it off. I'm so sorry this happened to your son and I hope he's okay. Even if you never go back to that practice, please file a complaint or send some literature that details foreskin development, normal age of retraction and how retraction at this age is harmful. I believe DOC has some info or will send some to him and I think the AAP website has info as well.
No, you don't need to be retracting it and your son does not need a circ. He's one year old, all he needs to do with his penis is urinate. As long as that is happening, it's working just fine!

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#3 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 08:09 PM
 
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So sorry this happened to your son. Your doctor is way off base in what he did and what he told you. Your son is fine. Keep an eye on it to make sure there is no infection from the retraction. Otherwise, if there's swelling or discomfort with peeing, frequent warms tubs soaks or sitz baths can help bring in circulation to help with the healing, and dilute the urine when he pees.

Here are a couple of links about why retracting is not necessary and potentially harmful. I would given them to your doctor with a note about why you'll be leaving his practice, so he doesn't put other intact boys at risk this way.

http://www.kindredmedia.com.au/libra...ractions/401/1

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/

http://www.healthychildren.org/Engli...No+local+token


The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker, will send a letter to the doctor/nurse/hospital pro bono (free) on your behalf telling them what they did was wrong and the consequences. It isn't a letter stating you'll sue, but it is not likely to earn you any friends at the doctor’s office. It is fully referenced and ought to get their attention, and should be very educational for them.

Email him at docdirector.geisheker@gmail.com

Before you contact John, you will need the following information:

The name of the doctor or nurse who did this, the name of his/her practice and their (snail) mailing address.

The name of the hospital where the doctor has privileges, (the hospital where they practice) and the mailing address. (even if it didn’t happen at the hospital)

The name of the CEO or Administrator of the hospital. (even if it didn't happen in the hospital, find out where the offending doctor has privileges and send it to those hospitals)

The name of the hospital's risk manager.

The name of the head of the department (OB, peds, emergency, etc.)

Baby’s name, date of birth, age.
Full detailed narrative of incident, what you were told, aftereffects.


Letters will also be sent to:

The state medical board in your state.

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (hospitals fear them like a boogeyman)


John V. Geisheker, JD
DoctorsOpposingCircumcision.org
1727--14th Ave., Suite #5
Seattle, WA 98122
Tel / fax +1. 206. 568. 0566
Cell +1. 206. 465. 6636



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#4 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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Oh Mama... I am so sorry this happened to you and your ds. We have had trouble with this too, by two different doctors. In our case, neither doc fully retracted, as I was very quick to grab their hand and push it away, but still forcefully retracted. I was reprimanded by both, telling me "I" was wrong and it should be done...

I don't blame you for not wanting to go back. If at all possible, complain and send a letter to the office so other little one's don't have this happen to them.

Here's to finding a new, better informed doc...

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#5 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 09:24 PM
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Wow. I never realized that forced retraction is a pretty common occurrence. It seems challenging enough to protect our sons from the knife, you wouldn't think that they would need continued protection from doctors that are somehow magically drawn to unsheathing an intact penis. It must have something to do with lack of education/training. Perhaps they only learn how to care for a circ'd penis (continuously retracting to prevent adhesion) so they think those methods apply to intact boys as well? Or perhaps they're TRYING to cause harm to get parents to pay for a circ procedure? I wish I knew the method behind the madness.

If I have a son I think I'll look around for some type of locking mechanism for his undies before we take him in for a WBV.
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#6 of 26 Old 02-09-2010, 10:26 PM
 
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So sorry this happened to you mama! I had a nurse practitioner that attempted it with DS at 6 months old and I literally slapped her hands... we did not have a good visit after that!

Good luck in your search for a new ped.

Wife (32) to DH (33) Mom to DS 2 and Twin DD's born 8/11
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#7 of 26 Old 02-10-2010, 02:01 AM
 
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I hope you use this opportunity to educate your doctor. Maybe a nice note from a lawyer would help.

SugarMama to Chatterbox Zoe (almost 4) and Locomotive Miles (2)
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#8 of 26 Old 02-10-2010, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you mamas for all of your support. I am going to have the one lawyer send them a letter. Then last night when I told my mom that I would never go back she got all prissy and told me that we should have just gotten him circumcisied. I really hate everyone who tries to tell me what to do with my son. And her reasoning was that its cleaner... people are just so uninformed.
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#9 of 26 Old 02-10-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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More resources.

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/phony...diagnosis.html

I'm so sorry to you and your boy. :_(

Momma to DS (2/08) and #2 due 10/11.
 
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#10 of 26 Old 02-11-2010, 12:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pogo0685 View Post
Thank you mamas for all of your support. I am going to have the one lawyer send them a letter. Then last night when I told my mom that I would never go back she got all prissy and told me that we should have just gotten him circumcisied. I really hate everyone who tries to tell me what to do with my son. And her reasoning was that its cleaner... people are just so uninformed.
When my ds had this happen to him and I was telling my mom about it and how mad I was she thought I should listen to the Dr. because after all they know best It is because that is what they where told back when she was raising my brothers that was what you should do.

 
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#11 of 26 Old 02-14-2010, 03:26 AM
 
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they retracted my brothers' intact foreskins, too. the first two brothers somehow got away with it; with the third, he was retracted at 6 months by the doctors... and it led to repeated infections for *years* and finally a circumcision at age 16. this was in 1973.

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#12 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 12:37 AM
 
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Why this isn't sexual assault/battery is beyond me.

Why don't doctors spread apart the labia of little girl babies at a well visit, leaving them with torn bleeding genital tissue?

I wish it was within the financial means of parents to persue sexual assault charges against physicians who do this. A few successful and well publicized cases would do much to stimulate the necessary education on intact care I think!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#13 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 12:50 AM
 
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I do not ask this to be harsh in any way, but why did you take your DS to a doctor if you didn't have full faith that he wouldn't retract? That's the first thing I thought of b/c we chose DS's pedi based on their knowledge about leaving intact penises alone.

I'm sorry for your LO that he was violated.

Alicia, wife to an loving and faithful DH, and mama to three fantastic though nutty children (cs, then an HBAC, then a VBAC!!).
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#14 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 01:21 PM
 
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CookAMH,
I think full faith can be hard to come by. Let me tell you of my experience this past summer.
I had my ds, 12 months old, at a childrens hospital. They wanted a urine catch in a bag. Before his clothes ever came off, I said "He is intact. He is not circumcised. Do not retract his foreskin." She said "OK" and proceded to wipe him down with the cleaning towelette from the base of his penis towards the tip. She then picked his penis up between her thujmb and forefinger and proceded to slide her fingers down towards the base of his penis, sliding the foreskin with them. I immediately said "You are retracting him. STOP" and she didn't. I had to physically remove her from my child at which point she became pretty indignant and said "What?" with a defensive tone. I told her she was doing exactly what she agreed not to do, that her medical knowledge was outdated and that she needed to read the American Academy of Pediatrics statement on intact care. She indignantly said "Oh, I will" in a tone that implied she'd be happy to prove me wrong.

I used to moderate this forum for MDC. I know this issue in and out and I was fully prepared for the medical community. I gave clear instructions and I intervened verbally when she did not follow my instructions and phycially when she did not follow my verbal demand to stop.

So, it's not simply a matter of having faith or believing that your wishes will be respected. It takes being vigilant and pro active and even then, it fails.

My son was not retracted because of my awareness of the issue and my distrust of the medical community. If I had believed her when she agreed to my request of no retraction, my son would have had his genital tissue harmed.

I also want to say, when I was having this discussion with the nurse, another woman in the room said "What, dont you clean him?" If I hadnt been 4 in the morning and I hadnt been up for almost 24 hours and I hadn't had be be debating care issues for my child, I would have picked him up, flashed her the full frontal view and said "I don't know, you tell me. Does he look dirty?"

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#15 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 01:33 PM
 
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I would've slapped that Dr.'s hand away so fast, his head would spin. Better yet, I wouldn't have taken the diaper off, and insisted that it stayed on.

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#16 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 01:58 PM
 
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s I too have been surprised at how ingnorant doctors and other health care providers can be. Obviously our children are not the first ones that have come to their practices intact, you think they would know better. I'm sorry you and your son had this happen!

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#17 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 02:42 PM
 
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I just had a 3 hour phone convo with a dear friend who is the head nurse of a pediatric level 1 trauma unit at a VERY famous hospital in Connecticut. He had no idea that you weren't supposed to retract. He's been dealing with children for over 20 years and had absolutely no idea.

Fortunately he was very open to the info and has agreed that what I was saying made sense. He has also agreed to read the info I have sent him and will educate the rest of the staff if he feels confident in the info I'm sending him.

It's all about education and there is an glaring lack of education among medical professionals in this country.

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#18 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post
CookAMH,
I think full faith can be hard to come by. Let me tell you of my experience this past summer.
I had my ds, 12 months old, at a childrens hospital. They wanted a urine catch in a bag. Before his clothes ever came off, I said "He is intact. He is not circumcised. Do not retract his foreskin." She said "OK" and proceded to wipe him down with the cleaning towelette from the base of his penis towards the tip. She then picked his penis up between her thujmb and forefinger and proceded to slide her fingers down towards the base of his penis, sliding the foreskin with them. I immediately said "You are retracting him. STOP" and she didn't. I had to physically remove her from my child at which point she became pretty indignant and said "What?" with a defensive tone. I told her she was doing exactly what she agreed not to do, that her medical knowledge was outdated and that she needed to read the American Academy of Pediatrics statement on intact care. She indignantly said "Oh, I will" in a tone that implied she'd be happy to prove me wrong.

I used to moderate this forum for MDC. I know this issue in and out and I was fully prepared for the medical community. I gave clear instructions and I intervened verbally when she did not follow my instructions and phycially when she did not follow my verbal demand to stop.

So, it's not simply a matter of having faith or believing that your wishes will be respected. It takes being vigilant and pro active and even then, it fails.

My son was not retracted because of my awareness of the issue and my distrust of the medical community. If I had believed her when she agreed to my request of no retraction, my son would have had his genital tissue harmed.

I also want to say, when I was having this discussion with the nurse, another woman in the room said "What, dont you clean him?" If I hadnt been 4 in the morning and I hadnt been up for almost 24 hours and I hadn't had be be debating care issues for my child, I would have picked him up, flashed her the full frontal view and said "I don't know, you tell me. Does he look dirty?"
Thanks for this, I'll def keep this in mind. I was thinking of how our ND answered when we quizzed her on proper handling of an intact penis and she said, nothing, let him play with it, that's all. So we're not concerned about her, but I can see from what you said and also remembering others who have instructed someone not to retract but the medical person is so uneducated they think they aren't retracting when they actually are.

Alicia, wife to an loving and faithful DH, and mama to three fantastic though nutty children (cs, then an HBAC, then a VBAC!!).
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#19 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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Cook, I wish it weren't so that we have to be so diligent....but every story about forced retraction posted here tells me differently. From the stories of mothers who have had this done to their sons, both those that know to be aware and those that don't, it happens so incredibly fast.

And Fyrestorm, I'm SO glad to hear that you had such a great educational opportunity.

I will add to my above story that I discussed the issue with the head ER doctor who just shook her head and apologized. She said "You are absolutely right. I have two intact sons myself." She said she'd educate them.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#20 of 26 Old 02-15-2010, 10:28 PM
 
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[QUOTE=PuppyFluffer;15069926]Why this isn't sexual assault/battery is beyond me.

Why don't doctors spread apart the labia of little girl babies at a well visit, leaving them with torn bleeding genital tissue?
QUOTE]

Sadly, sadly, this does happen regularly. In this forum, there are several threads on labial adhesions, which can be a variation of normal. Some doctors prefer to rip them open even without telling mom first. Then they perscribe the cycle of vasaline, daily ripping, and steroid creams - just like for baby boys with "phimosis." On more mainstream parenting forums, there are many, many stories about this. Girls and boys need their sexual parts protected from doctors.

I'm so glad that the E.R. doc was receptive. I hope she really educates the staff.
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#21 of 26 Old 02-16-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
I just had a 3 hour phone convo with a dear friend who is the head nurse of a pediatric level 1 trauma unit at a VERY famous hospital in Connecticut. He had no idea that you weren't supposed to retract. He's been dealing with children for over 20 years and had absolutely no idea.

Fortunately he was very open to the info and has agreed that what I was saying made sense. He has also agreed to read the info I have sent him and will educate the rest of the staff if he feels confident in the info I'm sending him.

It's all about education and there is an glaring lack of education among medical professionals in this country.
So, what are you going to send? Just curious....is it medical "enough" to convince a doctor?
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#22 of 26 Old 02-16-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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So, what are you going to send? Just curious....is it medical "enough" to convince a doctor?

I sent DOC and the AAP statement. I just hope he doesn't try to hit me back with the AAP stuff on vaccination since he knows I don't vaccinate

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#23 of 26 Old 02-16-2010, 11:44 PM
 
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[QUOTE=FernG;15073665]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post
Why this isn't sexual assault/battery is beyond me.

Why don't doctors spread apart the labia of little girl babies at a well visit, leaving them with torn bleeding genital tissue?
QUOTE]

Sadly, sadly, this does happen regularly. In this forum, there are several threads on labial adhesions, which can be a variation of normal. Some doctors prefer to rip them open even without telling mom first. Then they perscribe the cycle of vasaline, daily ripping, and steroid creams - just like for baby boys with "phimosis." On more mainstream parenting forums, there are many, many stories about this. Girls and boys need their sexual parts protected from doctors.

I'm so glad that the E.R. doc was receptive. I hope she really educates the staff.
I am aware of the issue of labial adhesions with baby girls. Unless an adhesion was interfering with the passage of urine, I personally would not intervene.
I think the difference here is that most all normal boys are at risk of having their genitals injured in a medical setting out of ignorance. I don't think the risk to normal girls exists in the same way that it does for normally developed girls.
No doctor should do anything to the genital tissue of anyone without first demonstrating a medical need for interference, fully informed consent as to the advantges and disadvantages of what ever is being proposed and proper pain relief. Period. I don't wish to minimize the danger or damage possible to baby girls but in general, I don't think they are at risk in the same manner that boys are.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#24 of 26 Old 02-17-2010, 01:05 AM
 
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I see your point now. I agree that only a few girls in the US are at risk vs all boys being at risk.
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#25 of 26 Old 02-17-2010, 08:12 AM
 
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.
I would have picked him up, flashed her the full frontal view and said "I don't know, you tell me. Does he look dirty?"
I would dearly loved to have seen the reaction to that !!!
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#26 of 26 Old 02-18-2010, 08:41 PM
 
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It's all about education and there is an glaring lack of education among medical professionals in this country.
Ironic, isn't it?

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