"I remember being circumcised at birth" - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 01:58 PM
 
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While I don't remember my birth, I do have several clear, non-verbal memories...... mostly having to do with the playpen, the cat, the park near the house... that sort of thing. So these memories stem from a time when I was 6-9 months old.


I'm very glad that my son is intact.
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#32 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 02:51 PM
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"Memories" as we tend to think of them are stored in the hippocampus.  Feelings of memories, however, are stored in the amygdala. In general, I don't think the hippocampus remembers newborn circumcision,  but I have no doubt that the amygdala remembers the feelings of that experience. 


"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#33 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post

"Memories" as we tend to think of them are stored in the hippocampus.  Feelings of memories, however, are stored in the amygdala. In general, I don't think the hippocampus remembers newborn circumcision,  but I have no doubt that the amygdala remembers the feelings of that experience. 



Yeah, I notice that people don't seem to need an actual memory of an event (as in a mental movie they can play back) in order to have their emotions, worldview, opinions, etc, affected by that event.

 

For example, my DP and I occasionally have a conversation that goes something like this:

 

Me: Why do you _____?

DP: What? I don't _____.

Me: You _____ all the time!

DP: When have I _____ed???

(And I'll be lucky if I can name two examples, even though he's totally _____ed at least a dozen times.)

(In fact, this example is an example of itself, because I can only think of one thing to fill in the blank with.)

 

By this time next week, I probably won't remember what I had for dinner tonight, but I still want to enjoy my dinner. I actually don't remember very many events from my childhood, and I guess I kind of work under the assumption that once my kids reach my current age, they won't have many memories of their childhoods either. But I still want to try to have them have a happy childhood, you know?

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#34 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 07:42 PM
 
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I was researching infant surgery in general recently and came across some shocking information (though why I was shocked, knowing what I do about circ, I cannot say...). This site (http://ltinnin.wordpress.com/) was the first I came across mentioning the fairly recent custom of performing major infant surgery (including open heart and abdominal) without anesthesia. Just a paralytic to keep them still, but no anesthesia as it wasn't considered safe. It wasn't until 1986 that the Academy of Pediatric Surgeons changed their protocol in this regard. I shared this with a friend who underwent heart surgery at 6 weeks of age. He said it really explained the mysterious PTSD that plagued him all his life. So yeah, pre-verbal memories don't just disappear to never bother us again. God help those poor babies who had to undergo this AND circ.

 

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Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post

laohaire what an amazingly helpful post. My DH remembers his circ, something he does not share openly as it is met with ridicule.

Anyways, when he was a toddler he had open heart surgery. I wonder if the event triggered memories of his circ, and as you say, he would then have been able to transition his circ memories.
 
 


 

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#35 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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I have one memory of laying on the floor and looking up at a gold colored couch and was on what seemed like a white blanket. I described it in full and where I was in the room sort of, and it seemed as if it must have been a real memory. It was only a glimpse. But it would stand to reason it is possible that someone might remember an extremely traumatic moment from being a baby. BUT, I am guessing more likely they have read about it enough that they think they can remember it. I just don't really know.

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#36 of 47 Old 06-23-2011, 09:11 PM
 
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That is horrifying!!! It makes me wants to scream and cry reading it! How awful!!!! Those poor babies!!!!
 

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Originally Posted by T-man's Mama View Post

I was researching infant surgery in general recently and came across some shocking information (though why I was shocked, knowing what I do about circ, I cannot say...). This site (http://ltinnin.wordpress.com/) was the first I came across mentioning the fairly recent custom of performing major infant surgery (including open heart and abdominal) without anesthesia. Just a paralytic to keep them still, but no anesthesia as it wasn't considered safe. It wasn't until 1986 that the Academy of Pediatric Surgeons changed their protocol in this regard. I shared this with a friend who underwent heart surgery at 6 weeks of age. He said it really explained the mysterious PTSD that plagued him all his life. So yeah, pre-verbal memories don't just disappear to never bother us again. God help those poor babies who had to undergo this AND circ.

 



 



 

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#37 of 47 Old 06-25-2011, 03:57 PM
 
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When we were kids my sister claimed she could remember things that happened when mom was pregnant with her, or when she was very small.  Maybe she wasn't just making it up. 

 

What a fascinating topic!  And more than enough reason not to circ (not that I needed another one). 


Sarah, partner to J and mom to DD1 April 30th, 2002 and DD2 May 5th, 2012. love.gif

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#38 of 47 Old 06-25-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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I think it's entirely possible.  MOST people tend to remember things as far back as about age 3.  Just in talking to people, this seems very "average".  I've read that it has a lot to do with language?  Like once you can verbalize things you start to retain the memories.  Makes no sense, but that's the jist I get.  But I know people who don't remember anything before age 5.  My first memory was at age 14 months, and my dad's is estimated at about 9 months (according to his mother's recollection of what he described to her).  So obviously there's a huge range of normal.  I was pre-verbal for many of my early memories.  I didn't talk until I was 2 (at ALL).  My dad's first memory was obviously from when he was pre-verbal.  So to me, that doesn't seem to be a factor.  I talked to a girl in high school once who claimed she remembered being a newborn.  She was a preemie and her early months were very traumatic.  My first memories were all traumatic, scary, and/or significant things (nothing like routine care, diaper changes, or nursing, ect).  Maybe that trauma plays into how easily it's remembered?  My first memory, at 14 month was falling and cracking my head on the patio.  It was scary and painful.  Makes for a significant memory!

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#39 of 47 Old 06-25-2011, 07:52 PM
 
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I have memories that are pre two years old. I remember of the ice baths in the hospital, I had several before I was two for high fevers.  I can describe where the room was in the hospital and even where the tub was in the room in relation to the door.


Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#40 of 47 Old 06-26-2011, 06:20 PM
 
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When I was 6-8 or so, I had a recurring nightmare that I was trapped in a car with my mother while we sank into a giant mud puddle. Many years later, mom happened to mention that when I was about 6 months old, we were driving somewhere and the car got stuck in a huge mud puddle and dad went to get help to get us out. It obviously wasn't nearly as bad as my nightmares, but it's pretty clear that at least some part of me remembered it.

 

My first conscious memory is from sometime before 18 months. I crawled into my sister's crib before my parents got up, but I couldn't get back out so I had to wait for them. It might be that I remember it because I did it on a fairly regular basis.

 

So far none of my kids have said that they remember their births, which makes me kind of sad. I do believe that it is possible to remember it for some people.


mom to all boys B: 08/01ribboncesarean.gif,  C: 07/05 uc.jpg, N: 03/09 uc.jpg, M: 01/12 uc.jpg and far too many lost onesintactlact.gifsaynovax.gif

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#41 of 47 Old 06-27-2011, 08:06 PM
 
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As for remembering birth my DD was once talking with me about when she was born and said, "And that's when they pulled me out." Previous to this we had always talked about moms pushing the baby out, that was the only way we ever described it. I said, "No I pushed you out, right?" (I was testing her.) She insisted, "no they pulled me out."

 

My OB used the vacuum and did, indeed, literally pull her out as I was too numb from the (stupid) epidural. She had a really bad conehead and what my lactation consultant thinks was a jaw problem from the stress of being pulled too hard.

 

So, I say they can probably "remember" birth and if they can remember that, they can certainly remember circ ...


Me (40) DH (49) daring DD (9) and darling DS - almost THREE! (born June 25, 2010 in an amazing, unplanned homebirth.jpg

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#42 of 47 Old 07-06-2011, 01:15 PM
 
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My husband remembers the sensations of his circ. He could describe it vividly even before we started talking about having children, so when we got to the topic when I was planning to get pregnant he was already completely against it. He is also angry about the side effects he has, which are fairly numerous- but still considered "normal".


Momma to G 12/06 A 2/09, AND ANNOUNCING... Welcome big boy! A 5/10/10 9 lbs 10 oz! We and had our 3rd UP/UC!
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#43 of 47 Old 07-07-2011, 09:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakunangovi View Post

Some years ago there was a lady in California who was attempting to write a thesis on this. She had collected stories from parents whose little boys had verbalised a memory of their own circumcisions. I thought her name was Rosemary Kimmel - does that ring a bell with anyone? We corresponded a few times, and I believe that she, unfortunately, ran out of money to fund her project.


Well, among early intactivists there is both a Rosemary and a Kimmel, but different people. As has been noted, Rosemary Romberg wrote Circumcision: The Painful Dilemma. And Tina Kimmel is a PhD health statistician with the State of California. She is a good friend of mine and we just got together 2 weeks ago. Could that have been your correspondent?

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#44 of 47 Old 07-08-2011, 10:48 AM
 
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Brant,  you are correct - it was Tina Kimmel.  Old age must be catching up!!  How is she doing, and is she still involved in the inactivist movement?  I was very sorry that she was having difficulty with her project, as this is an absolutely fascinating sidebar to the topic of circmcision.  Did she ever manage to get anywhere with it in the end?

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#45 of 47 Old 07-08-2011, 04:04 PM
 
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I have a "snapshot" of my circumcision three days after birth. We know that some people recall their birth and other early events. And we know that the more traumatic the event, the more permanent the memory. So it is supported by science. A survery of circumcised men showed that 20% had some sort of early recollection of their circumcision. However, even if not remembered, it can cause permanent changes in the brain, which is also supported by scientific studies. More importantly, whether remembered or not it is still an avoidable birth trauma, and, to me, a gross human rights violation, too.

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#46 of 47 Old 07-19-2011, 12:47 PM
 
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I am in total agreement with you on the human rights violation!  I asked my husband if he would have wanted to be circumcised, and he said NO, but nobody asked him.  I think that's the point, isn't it?  Cutting at a baby boy's genitals at birth is just criminal in my opinion, and if people actually read the history of this practice, I don't see how they could disagree (yet it is a hot subject for debate).  How do we really know the impact of such a traumatic experience on a baby boy's brain?  And what about the research today on the benefits for men and their partners,  of not circumcising?

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#47 of 47 Old 07-19-2011, 12:55 PM
 
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We had a girl, so we didn't have to be concerned about circumcision, but my husband agrees if we had a boy, he was with me on NO circ! Most men with a circ have sexual issues related to their alteration at birth, but many don't recognize them.  The reason is because they don't know sex to be any other way.  The ironic thing is that a huge number of women who have "sexual difficulties"..... don't actually have sexual difficulties, except where the effects of circumcision created them! How's that for being lied to for so many years? When you hear that a circ doesn't cause any problems, well, that's the lie.  I am just finishing an amazing book, "Sex, the Way Nature Intended it."  I recommend this book to all women and men because it is a wealth of information!

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