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#1 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have a 4 week old little man that my hubby is insistent on circ. I don't see a need and it really hurts my heart every time I think about it. Hubby claims he will be teased mercilessly because of it at school. I guess he witnessed it when he was in the locker rooms growing up. He is afraid he will get some sort of complex from it. The parallel I drew is what if the little one had a nose that was different and came to us asking for plastic surgery to correct it so people wouldn't make fun of him. Would he be ok with that? The answer was no but he doesn't see the similarity. He wants to take him in next week. I just can't see handing him to a stranger, him being scared, and having a needless operation just so he'll "look like everyone else".

Anyone have any older sons that are not circ? Is it an issue for them?

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#2 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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I'm sorry he's giving you grief mama, but just gently tell your DH no. Please don't let your son be circed. Has your husband seen a circ video or photos? I'm in Texas too and the circ rate is dropping. It isn't as high as it was when your DH was in school. It seems like you are in S. TX or maybe the Galveston area?? If so, your circ rate will be much lower than it is in my area of N. TX.

And kids are teased for all types of reasons. What if your son needs glasses to see or braces? Will you forgo those in order to avoid teasing? What if your son is chubby? Will you get him liposuction (also a cosmetic surgical procedure) to avoid his peers teasing?

The way I see it, your son was born perfectly with all his natural parts. Your DH is wanting to subject him to a painful, unnecessary surgical procedure. The work now falls on your DH's shoulders to prove why your son needs surgery. Can he research the subject and find a real need (potential teasing is not a need)? If anyone notices or cares that your son is intact (or if it bothers your son one day), your son can choose to have a circ. But once it's done, it can't be undone. And from what I've read and heard, boys don't shower together like they used to, boys don't make comments about other boys genitals, and the intact rate is so much higher now. I highly doubt your son will ever be teased.

For what it's worth, my son is school aged and intact. He's never had any issues with teasing or infection or even looking different than his circed dad. My friend's w/ intact, school aged boys have never been teased either.

Read this link (just for you, not for your DH to read) - http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Maybe these would be good for your DH to read/view:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiEOiAkQRSY

http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/9985.html

http://mgmbill.org/statistics.htm

Good luck, mama. Please have your DH watch some circ videos, even the Penn and Teller episode if he isn't offended by R rated language or nudity. That episode hits home for some men. Other people will have other suggestions for you soon.
Congratulations on your new little boy!

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#3 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 03:36 PM
 
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Is he trying to make a case for homeschooling... or circumcision? Because it seems to me that if he KNOWS that the school environment is so hostile, that the adults in charge are so irresponsible and unaccountable, that the whole experience is so damaging to a child's self esteem- that they need to be genitally mutilated in order to slip under the radar... that might not be the best place for your son to spend his formative years.
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#4 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 03:43 PM
 
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My son is still little, but we are in texas and all my cousins 5 who live and grew up in texas public schools are intact. No issue.

Hold your ground mama! Don't give in and have your son altered for some bullies that may not even exist.

Texmati-- Knitter, Hindu, vegetarian, WOHM. Wife to superdadsuperhero.gif and mom to DS babyf.gif24 months, and DD boc.gif 8 months! .

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#5 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 04:20 PM
 
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I'm not in Texas, and the circ rate here is pretty low. However, ds1 was born in 1993, and the rate was higher then (not super high, as far as I know, but not as low as it is now). DS1 is intact. He's never been teased about it at all. He's never had a problem of any kind. And, he cringes when the subject of circumcision comes up.

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#6 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 04:45 PM
 
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If your husband wants to protect your son from teasing, this is a matter for good parenting - not for preemptive cosmetic surgery. E.g. teaching him about his marvelous body, all the positive reasons you chose not to circumcise him, reinforcing general positive self-esteem, ways to handle bullies etc. - in an age appropriate way.

Also, your husband's attitude toward your son's intact penis will make a big difference in how your son views his own intact status. If your husband conveys the message that there is something wrong with your son's intact penis, makes negative or teasing comments about it, or continually verbalizes that you should have had him circed, this will do more damage than the supposed risk of teasing at school.

Your husband needs to buy into the value of leaving your son intact, so he can support him in feeling thankful and whole, in the unlikely event that an issue ever come up at school. Has your husband done research on the functions of the foreskin, the harms of circumcision, the ethical issues involved? It's likely if he gets more educated, his insistence on circumcising him will greatly lessen. BTW, I heard from a very experienced midwife recently that she believes that Dads who insist on circumcising often have a fear that their son will never have a normal sex life. They don't know how the foreskin works, and can't imagine how you could have a satisfying sex life with the glans "all covered up like that." Again, a matter of your husband getting educated.

Put your foot down about any talk of circumcision. If your husband is not willing to do any research, he doesn't get to have a say. If he can't come up with any better reasons for circumcision than "so he won't get teased", end of discussion. Any other reasons he might express can all be rebutted anyway. Stay strong Mama. Right now, you're the only one who can protect your son.

Gillian
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#7 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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For me, one of the major reasons not to circumcise my son was that it is his body, his choice. If he decides as an adult or even a teen to undergo cosmetic surgery, he will at least then receive adequate pain management during the surgery and after.

Also, the "look like everyone else" theory doesn't really hold up to scrutiny when about half of little boys born today in the US are intact. In some Western states, the rate of circ is down in the teens, the reveral of the circ rate from when your DH was growing up. Under those conditions, a circed boy is more likely to be in the minority among his peers. Who would be made fun of then, if anyone?

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#8 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by texmati View Post

Hold your ground mama! Don't give in and have your son altered for some bullies that may not even exist.


Stay strong, mama. Be the mama bear and protect your cub!!

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#9 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 06:39 PM
 
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My FIL is not circumcised and he's 60 something years old. His brothers were but he wasn't only because he came fast and was unintentionally born at home. His parents just didn't think about it and he ended up staying intact. And he's a great pro intact example because he is a Vietnam vet and he says he has never had any issues with infection or problems keeping it clean even with the conditions he lived in during Vietnam. He has never had any problems whatsoever and my MIL hints that their sex life is just fine. lol.

My husband and brother were circumcised though. Mainly because it was done in the hospital and agian it wasn't questioned. So my husband grew up seeing that his father looked different from him and he says he never gave it much thought. My sons are not circumcised and my 7 year old has just now begun to realize that daddy looks a bit different but again he gives it no thought. It's not something we talk about really. My FIL by the way suffered no bullying or any other negative comments that he can recall about his penis.

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#10 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 07:11 PM
 
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I am sorry you are gong through this mama. I hope that you can find the strength to do what is right and protect your ds. Have you read the Regrets thread in the sticky there are hundreds of mom's there in a position like yours who went ahead and let their dh have his way and they will always feel the pain and regret of letting it happen.

Please mama it is your job to protect your son from being hurt like this. Not only at the time of the surgery but also down the road when it could very well affect his sex life.

 
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#11 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TX Mama View Post
I just can't see handing him to a stranger, him being scared, and having a needless operation just so he'll "look like everyone else".
Being circ'd won't make him "look like everyone else," so if that is your DH's goal it will fail.

First, not every male is circ'd. Only slightly more than half the male babies in this country are being circ'd, and world wide the vast majority are not circ'd.

Secondly, there is always going to be individual variation anyway.

I'd like to second the recommendation to read this article about why many circ'd men are irrational on this subject.

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#12 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 07:15 PM
 
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The circ rate in texas right now is at 49% so your ds will be far from the only one intact http://mgmbill.org/statistics.htm

He will actually be in the majority if you leave him intact. Your dh grew up in a different world as far as circ is concerned than your ds will.

Even if your ds gets pain relief during it for the next few weeks he will urinating on an open wound and their is nothing you can do to protect him from that pain. Boys die every year from circ and every single man who is circed has lost sensation even though they dont know it. Your ds deserves to have his who body just like the majority of woman here in the USA do.

 
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#13 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 09:26 PM
 
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I can assure you that I am so glad we left DS's penis alone. We say it all the time.

I can assure you that all the intact men I've asked have NEVER been teased.

I can assure you that if all you husband is worried about is the teasing, it's easy to remedy. Teaching your son to love himself for how he is and how to gracefully deflect rude comments of ignorant peers is a great life lesson.

See if you husband will put it off another month...and then another month... the longer you son is intact, the longer you husband has to get used to the idea. If you have to be really firm, be really firm. Don't deny your instincts as a mother, don't cave into his pressure. Think of it from your child's perspective, not just your husbands. Your child does not want this surgery!
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#14 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 09:50 PM
 
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Circumcision really is not as common as it once was. Even in our VERY small rural town in the middle of Appalachia. About a year ago at the health department a nurse saw me changing my sons diaper and made the comment "seems like hardly anyone is circumcising their boys anymore" I turned to give a fierce reply but saw a smile on her face "that is a good thing, those things were terrible" so even in tiny backwoods America people are catching on.
On that same note of mine and dh's adult friends we have several that are intact as well as several that are circumcised the ONLY one that ever had the classic locker room teasing or had a partner comment on the "strangeness" of his penis was one dear friend that got a botched circumcision that resulted in a very odd half way circ. Not only are circumcisions painful and unnecessary they also can go very very wrong.

Loved wife to JT and grateful mother to M (dd age 13) L (dd age 10) T (ds age 6) A (ds age 4) E (dd age 2) and C & S (twin boys born 10/13/10)
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#15 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 10:03 PM
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I think the locker-room thing is mostly a myth. Even if it were a real phenomenon, it would be lessening as the circ rate drops and more boys are left whole.

At any rate, if someone was teasing one of my sons about the state of his penis, I imagine my kid would say, "Why are you checking out my stuff?" Seems the "gazer" would be more embarrassed than the intact boy.
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#16 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 10:08 PM
 
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I love the replies. Stand your ground. I would divorce someone before I would allow them to mutilate my child's body. But given all the links and information you have available form the other posts, let's hope your dh understands it is non negotiable.

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#17 of 57 Old 06-19-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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Stand your ground and do your research. Present an evidence-based argument for leaving your son intact. I gave in to DH's pressure before either of us understood, and didn't bother researching it before hand. After it was too late for my son, I found out the truth and was so resentful it nearly destroyed our marriage. The only good thing to come of it is that now DH is as anti-circ as I am, and is restoring himself to boot.

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#18 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 02:24 AM
 
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Stand your ground and do your research. Present an evidence-based argument for leaving your son intact.
I disagree.

Have HIM do the research and present to YOU an evidenced-based argument for modifying your son't gentials without concent.

The default is "leave it as it is".

The option that has to be researched and proven is "cut a chunk off".

ANYthing he comes up with can be shot down - there are no good medical reasons to circ an infant. Come back here if you need help dispatching any "medical" arguments your DH might come up with.

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#19 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 03:00 AM
 
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BTW, I heard from a very experienced midwife recently that she believes that Dads who insist on circumcising often have a fear that their son will never have a normal sex life. They don't know how the foreskin works, and can't imagine how you could have a satisfying sex life with the glans all covered up like that. Again, a matter of your husband getting educated.

Put your foot down about any talk of circumcision. If your husband is not willing to do any research, he doesn't get to have a say. If he can't come up with any better reasons for circumcision than "so he won't get teased", end of discussion. Any other reasons he might express can all be rebutted anyway. Stay strong Mama. Right now, you're the only one who can protect your son.

Gillian
and the truth is that your son, if left intact, will have a MORE satisfying love life, thanks to the functions of the foreskin. most adult men are circumcised and don't realize what they are missing. but the head of the penis is meant to stay moist via the foreskin covering. this contributes to the sexual experience in a very positive way.

i also agree that the onus on is your husband to prove to you why this surgery is NECESSARY... not "desirable" (in your husband's eyes)... but medically necessary -- "teasing" even if it happens is not enough of a reason to do this. there are real, major risks to circumcision surgery. bleeding, MRSA infection, medical errors, pain (probably still done without anaestesia at five weeks old), great suffering on the part of the child (suffering perhaps many times worse than any possible future teasing -- which is unlikely to happen anyway, as boys are not likely to admit to checking out another boy's penis in the locker rooms).

and let's not forget: this is not your husband's body or his penis. it belongs to your son, the whole penis. you have the chance to preserve his natural penis function for him, a gift for the rest of his life. stand your ground on this. please don't cave! come back here for more support. good luck!!

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#20 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 10:15 AM
 
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my son is 7 and intact. he goes to public school and to swim classes. absolutely no problems!!!

(and by the way, locker rooms offer privacy these days!)
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#21 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 12:01 PM
 
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My son is 15 on the swim team. Trust me he isn't being tease and the last thing they tease about is penis.

"Why you staring at my d*ck?" solves a lot.
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#22 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 01:19 PM
 
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If it makes him feel any better about your son's sex life you can point out that the area of the world responsible for the Kama Sutra also has low circumcision rates.

I also question WHY the US has such high usage of Viagra and other ED medications if circumcision supposedly doesn't do anything negative to a man's sex life (wikipedia refutes this but all studies that say circumcision IMPROVED their sex life were surveys, not actual studies, of course men are going to say their sex life is good if the alternative is embarrassing!).

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#23 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 01:19 PM
 
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Have HIM do the research and present to YOU an evidenced-based argument {to} "cut a chunk off".

ANYthing he comes up with can be shot down
It's important to keep cool if he throws something at you that you haven't got a ready rebuttal for. Don't BS him. Say: "I saw something about that online. Let me look it up and we'll address that tomorrow."

This is a life-changing cosmetic penile reduction surgery. One more day to research it could only be objected to by a bona fide monster.

To me this is NOT about "unneccessary surgery" but rather avoiding the 100% certain loss of the fullness of sexual experience, and avoiding the real risk of outcomes like you'd see if you Googled circumcision damage.

-Ron

-Ron
HIS body, HIS decision.
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#24 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 04:42 PM
 
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I lived in Galveston and I bet he will not be even close to the only one in the locker room who isn't circed. Not to mention that locker rooms are a lot more conservative and private now.
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#25 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 06:02 PM
 
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I also live in TX.

My first ds was surgically altered at birth but his brothers were not. His friends are not. As mentioned before, there are more boys with a complete set of male genitals than boys who have had the surgery.

My children participate in a "Parent's Night Out" at Lifetime Fitness where they swim and compete in various gym activities. They're changing out of their wet suits in the locker rooms & in front of their peers. They're not noticing what other boys look like. I don't think they care.


If your dd's breast looked weird and "different" than the other girls in the locker room would you encourage surgery?

Gillian made the perfect argument. I'll echo, building a healthy self esteem and a strong backbone is paramount to good parenting.
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#26 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 06:08 PM
 
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dh (31) nd ffil (58) are both intact, no teasing for either of them. ds1 and 2 dont e pose their penis to anyone so the issue has never come up for them. i would sooner get a divorce than to be bullied into doing a circ. the guilt would forever haunt me
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#27 of 57 Old 06-20-2010, 06:49 PM
 
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MY bro in law coaches high school varsity baseball, football and junior varsity junior high school baseball. He told me, "curves left, curves right, too big, too small, light, dark, pink, cut, uncut they will find something if they want to tease a peer." He said there really isn't a way to avoid being teased at that age and that it is often a bonding thing they do.

I don't think any form of bullying is right, but he coaches in deep East Texas (used to coach right outside of Houston) and he said the kids get by with a certain level of 'teasing' but not 'bullying.'

A bunch of 10 year old boys helped change my son's diaper all weekend and no one said a word about it looking different, and all the boys were circ'ed.
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#28 of 57 Old 06-21-2010, 12:32 AM
 
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I started a thread a few weeks ago titled "post locker room stories here" or something close to that. I can't get it now or I'd post the link.

~helen~ mama to 5 yo twins jonas and micah and my 2 yo baby boy eli
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#29 of 57 Old 06-21-2010, 01:05 AM
 
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Locker Room Stories thread

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

MCatLvrMom2A&X is offline  
#30 of 57 Old 06-21-2010, 01:27 AM
 
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I disagree with those that have said that someone questioning the decision to circ shouldn't research. That was me, and my failure to do research led to my son being cut. If I HAD done the research, he wouldn't have been. My husband gave me reasons that sounded logical to me at the time, and since I hadn't researched it myself, I had no idea they were completely false. If just ONE PERSON had suggested I do the research against it, I wouldn't be racked with guilt and nearly die of shame every time I see my son naked. It's easy to say that the burden of proof is on the one wanting to do the cutting when you already know how horrible it really is. But when you're just starting to question, it doesn't work that way. Circumcision, whether we like it or not, is the status quo, and as the ones wanting to change the status quo, we need to know all the arguments, both for and against it, since there's mountains of propaganda-posing-as-evidence promoting cutting that the average person might take at face value as a valid argument. It doesn't mean you have to give credence to the specious arguments, just be aware of them. And yes, in the end, "his penis, his choice" should trump all other arguments, end of story. But all too often it doesn't.

SAHM to Declan (12/12/06) and Blythe (2/9/09)
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