Help decide whether to have circumcision on next son. - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 38 Old 09-03-2010, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't even know where to begin. Our first son is circumcised and it was so horrible to watch. We did it because we thought it was just what you do. It just never crossed my mind at the time to not do it. My mom circumcised her first son, and not the second and when I asked her why she did that she just gave me this look of I can't believe your asking me, let alone know this. I didn't push it further but I'd really like to know why especially since I now know we are having a boy.

I think my brother has been insecure about being intact, and I would like to talk to him about his feelings about it, but don't know how he would feel with me asking such a personal question. My fiance says we are absolutely circumcising our next son. However, when I asked him why he just said "because" and so then I went on about how neither of us know why it should or should not be done so at least give me a chance to find out. I'm so overwelmed though. Can someone hold my hand? I want to make an informed decision this time around.

Ma (26) to a happy boy 04.07 and due with another 01.11 ~ finally marrying my HS sweetie 02.12!
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#2 of 38 Old 09-03-2010, 06:58 PM
 
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We would all love to hold your hand!
Start with the AAP recommendation, they no longer recommend it. They are totally leaving that decision to the parents. This is a totally cosmetic surgery. Parents circ for many reason, however none of the reasons for RIC are medical.
Next look at your reasons. From what you wrote, they are 1. DS1 is, and you don't want to have the brothers wondering why you chose differently. #2 your brother feels insecure. #3 DH wants it. Now you have to weigh if those reason are worth cutting off part of your son's penis.

I think you should talk to your brothers! Tell them you are thinking about circs for this son and you really need their help. They may not tell you right off the bat, but eventually, they may have some opinion for you.
Then you should talk to your DF. Let him know your concerns. If you son wants to have a circ when he's grown, he can make that decision. You aren't taking any choices away from him.
HTH

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#3 of 38 Old 09-03-2010, 07:16 PM
 
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YAY!!! Its A Boy!!!

Leave it as nature intended.

Check out this tool to help answer your questions.

"To Not Circumcise or to Not Circumcise; There is No Question."

"If you regret circumcising your son, please post here."

Advice for dealing with regret. by Marylin Milos

Hope this helps.
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#4 of 38 Old 09-03-2010, 07:54 PM
 
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It sounds like one of your concerns is your son's self esteem. Most of the boys that I know that are intact are totally happy with their status. I always ask them about whether they're happy with themselves and if hygiene is an issue (those were my two main concerns when making the decision myself, before I found this board). They all say that they are totally happy and would never change themselves and that hygiene is a non-issue- it's a piece of cake. None of them reported any problems such as UTI's or infections. My son is only 21 months, but he hasn't had any problems either. I doubt anyone would ever tease him, especially if they knew what a mama bear I am. I think my son being intact and totally issue-free has changed my family's mind (my mom said that he'd eventually have to have it done because of infections, but we're proving her wrong). One great thing about leaving him intact is you will quickly find that it's totally normal and natural and beautiful. There is a reason why your instincts and your last experience are leading you to question circumcision. I would say that those are good instincts. I am so happy I left my son intact- I am grateful every day that I didn't listen to some of my mommy friends, my mother and even my husband. My instincts that told me to question circumcision were totally right. The more research I do and the more I see my healthy happy little guy, the more convinced I am that I did the right thing in letting him make the decision for himself.

Remember, he can always chose to be circumcised later, but even with restoration there are things that are permanently lost with circumcision.

I love the Penn and Teller video, it's funny and you husband would probably watch it with you.
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#5 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 01:12 AM
 
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Do you know that the US has the highest rates of circumcision for reasons other then religious? Circumcision is rare in Europe. Canada is a bit more like the US but at a much lower rates of somewhere between 9% and 30%, depends on how the info is gathered. All the males in my family were left intact at birth, that includes my DH and sons. My DH and I are from a province where the circumcision rates are much lower then the national average but we moved to the province with the highest rates and when our first son was born, we were both so shocked that the doctor asked us if we planned to circ, that we both yelled "NO" in unison. We never even discussed the issue. To me even contemplating circumcising is strange. Now if you asked someone from Europe if the planned to circ they would be appalled.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#6 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 01:33 AM
 
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I was unsure what to do for my son, because my husband expressed a preference that the baby be circ'd. I thought about it and decided there was no way I would be able to hand my newborn over for such a procedure. I was also very worried about caring for such a painful wound in the diaper area, with exposure to all the bacteria. I told DH to research it and come up with valid reasons in favor of it. I also requested that he watch a video of the procedure, because if he was willing to put his son through it, he had to at least be willing to WATCH it.

Well, DH did not research, did not watch a video, and had to admit that it wasn't really all that important to him, he just thought it seemed like the thing to do. And he was so squeamish about even just watching the procedure, he agreed it would be cruel and unfair to subject a helpless baby to it. So the baby stayed intact.

I had never seen an intact penis before in my life, so I was unsure how it would be - it's FINE! Totally normal looking and easy to care for. I just really can't see it being a problem in any way for my son, and I have spared my tiny baby from suffering a painful and invasive procedure. I'm so glad we decided to keep him intact, it just seems RIGHT for our son, and was the right decision for our family.

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#7 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 03:22 AM
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#8 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 03:30 AM
 
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I also have a compilation of research from different sources that I can send you with the links they came from. I covered the history, the myths about intact penis, the myths about medical benefits of circumcision and the sexual and protectional functions of the foreskin.

Dianna environmentally educated tree hugging mom of dd 9/06 and ds 10/08 newbie dd 9/10
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#9 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 06:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoami View Post
I don't even know where to begin. Our first son is circumcised and it was so horrible to watch. We did it because we thought it was just what you do. It just never crossed my mind at the time to not do it. My mom circumcised her first son, and not the second and when I asked her why she did that she just gave me this look of I can't believe your asking me, let alone know this. I didn't push it further but I'd really like to know why especially since I now know we are having a boy.

I think my brother has been insecure about being intact, and I would like to talk to him about his feelings about it, but don't know how he would feel with me asking such a personal question. My fiance says we are absolutely circumcising our next son. However, when I asked him why he just said "because" and so then I went on about how neither of us know why it should or should not be done so at least give me a chance to find out. I'm so overwelmed though. Can someone hold my hand? I want to make an informed decision this time around.
First, I want to applaud you for looking into it. It can be so very hard to research a decision like this once you've already circumcised one child. But, as the saying goes, when you know better, you do better!

I think if you put the two sentences I highlighted together, it tells the whole story. It was horrible to watch, because it goes against all your mother instincts to subject your baby to unnecessary pain and trauma (and yes, possibly death) "just because." And when you read about circumcision, you will find that there really isn't a good reason to circumcision.

 
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#10 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by whoami View Post
My mom circumcised her first son, and not the second and when I asked her why she did that she just gave me this look of I can't believe your asking me, let alone know this.

I think my brother has been insecure about being intact,

These 2 highlighted parts probably go together, as well. Circumcision, like shame about the issue, is something that only thrives in silence and repression. When people's true feelings and motivations are explored and revealed, it becomes a non-issue.

Ma, your post is full of good things. You're a happy mom, you're in love, your proper instincts are strong with this pregnancy, and you have confronted your feelings about the first circumcision honestly.

American circumcision is a social fad. Nothing more. It doesn't confer health, cleanliness or beauty. It doesn't make a boy more "regular" or popular. It simply removes part of his sex organs and important rights of his. At the same time, it makes an aware parent miserable. The trend is strongly away from this practice because of instincts like yours. I hope you will find the knowledge and strength to follow them.
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#11 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 08:49 AM
 
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Your husband's "just because" is because he doesn't want to face the facts you are finding about circumcision... because he is circumcised. He has two choices... kind of like the blue pill and the red pill in "The Matrix." He can "take the blue pill" and go on believing that his circumcision was good for him - that it saved him from infections, from rejections from women, from teasing in the locker room, from all sorts of health problems, from great difficulty in cleaning and from having a smelly, cheesy penis AND that it in no way diminished his sexual sensitivity and prowess. If he believes all of this about his own circumcision, then it follows that it is true of all circumcisions, and therefore circumcision was the right choice for your first son and will be the right choice for your second son.

Or, your husband can "take the red pill" and listen to the facts you have been finding and presenting to him. Just like in the movie, taking the red pill can be extremely traumatic... but at least things are real. It would be really hard for him to think that his circumcision, and the one he had done to his first son, actually did take away important sexual nerves and tissue, and that it actually did not provide any protection from infection and disease or make the penis cleaner. But sadly, those are the facts. Living in denial, and cutting the second son, are not going to make those facts go away. But accepting reality, and ending the cycle, can be incredibly healing.
I wish you and your husband the best as you work through this difficult time.

Jen
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#12 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 09:45 AM
 
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And if he takes the red pill, he may wish to restore his foreskin. You and he will reap large benefits in terms of sexual feeling and function if he does. And, if he does, then he will look like his son...
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#13 of 38 Old 09-04-2010, 09:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoami View Post
I don't even know where to begin. Our first son is circumcised and it was so horrible to watch. We did it because we thought it was just what you do. It just never crossed my mind at the time to not do it. My mom circumcised her first son, and not the second and when I asked her why she did that she just gave me this look of I can't believe your asking me, let alone know this. I didn't push it further but I'd really like to know why especially since I now know we are having a boy.

I think my brother has been insecure about being intact, and I would like to talk to him about his feelings about it, but don't know how he would feel with me asking such a personal question. My fiance says we are absolutely circumcising our next son. However, when I asked him why he just said "because" and so then I went on about how neither of us know why it should or should not be done so at least give me a chance to find out. I'm so overwelmed though. Can someone hold my hand? I want to make an informed decision this time around.
My guess about why your mother chose not to circumcise the second was that, like you, she had second thoughts after seeing what the first went through.

If your brother grew up feeling insecure about being intact it is probably because he grew up in a time when most of his peers were circumcised and he probably wasn't given a lot of positive messages about his penis at home either (I know that sounds weird as I write it that way, but what I mean is, given your mother's reaction to your question, how do you think she would have reacted if your brother asked, "Why do I look different from my brother and my friends?" If she responded with a look of horror, he probably picked up a negative feeling about it. If she had said, "When your brother was born, we thought that it would be better for him to have his foreskin cut off, but when you were born we knew it wasn't necessary--you were perfect just the way you were!" he probably would have felt better about himself).

With all that said, even if your brother does feel insecure about it (and he might not!), it does not mean that your son would feel insecure if he were to be left intact because circumcision rates are a lot lower now so your son will certainly not be the only one of his peers who is intact. Also, you can help him to feel positive about it as in the example I gave above.

As for your fiance, I think he is going to have to come up with a better reason than "just because" and I hope that the links provided will help the two of you make a more educated decision. Good luck!

Now mom to a boy born January 2010. 
Cautiously expecting Dec 2014!
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#14 of 38 Old 09-05-2010, 02:42 PM
 
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The US circ rate has been declining for some time. It was 33% in 2009, the lowest it's ever been in this country for quite a while. So your son will most likely be in the majority if you keep him intact, and the minority if choose to circ.

http://www.acep.org/MobileArticle.as...5&parentid=742

This article is actually about how the rate of adverse effects from circ are low and usually easily correctable, (which is something I bet many here would disagree with ) but it does give you the stats I quoted above.

Banana, doula wife to Papa Banana and mother to Banana One, Banana Two, Banana Three, Banana Four...

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#15 of 38 Old 09-05-2010, 03:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by whoami View Post
I think my brother has been insecure about being intact, and I would like to talk to him about his feelings about it, but don't know how he would feel with me asking such a personal question.
If I may chime in as a male, assuming your brother is an adult, and if you'd value his input, just ask. "Did not being circumcised ever cause you any problems?--we're thinking about skipping it this time around" really isn't that weird a question to ask the uncle-to-be.
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#16 of 38 Old 09-07-2010, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the support and links! We clicked through a couple sites yesterday but we're going to have to look through it again when we have more focused time. Actually, it will mostly be me doing all the reading. My honey is supporting me and is open and eager to learn about this with me.

I also talked to my brother and he said "what?! mom did that to x but not to me?!" - like what she did to our older brother was a good thing or something. So I guess he thought they were both the same all this time, which might be the case and I guess I'll find out when I talk to my mom. But anyways, he says he used to wish he was circumcised but not anymore and he thinks intercourse feels better. At one point he thought of getting circumcised but then the chance of losing sensation wasn't worth it to him. If he ever has a son he would choose to circumcise him though, or leave it up to his wife. Funny too, his friend was there when we were talking and he was saying to absolutely circumcise. He had no real reason as to why though.

Bro also said he felt better knowing his risks for stds are lower, which i always thought it was higher? And that he just has to clean better than if he weren't intact.

I've got a lot of reading to do!

Ma (26) to a happy boy 04.07 and due with another 01.11 ~ finally marrying my HS sweetie 02.12!
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#17 of 38 Old 09-07-2010, 05:43 PM
 
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IMO, circumcision's main damage is what it does to the blood vessels in the penis. It interferes dramatically with the efficient process of blood delivery (artery) and return (veins). This in turn changes the temperature of the entire organ, especially the distal end, and glans temperature has been correlated to testicle closeness to the body -- which in turn has been correlated to sperm count and fertility.

You already know about how circumcision cuts out a sleeve of skin, and this breaks the neurologic map running from pubis to glans.

In sum, circumcision short-circuits just about everything evolved, complex and positive about the penis. Fortunately, our bodies have remarkable recovery powers, particularly in the reproductive area. The problem is that recovery from this type of wounding (circumcision) is random in its efficiency and effectiveness and leaves the penis never as good as the original.
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#18 of 38 Old 09-07-2010, 06:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by whoami View Post
Thanks for all the support and links! We clicked through a couple sites yesterday but we're going to have to look through it again when we have more focused time. Actually, it will mostly be me doing all the reading. My honey is supporting me and is open and eager to learn about this with me.

I also talked to my brother and he said "what?! mom did that to x but not to me?!" - like what she did to our older brother was a good thing or something. So I guess he thought they were both the same all this time, which might be the case and I guess I'll find out when I talk to my mom. But anyways, he says he used to wish he was circumcised but not anymore and he thinks intercourse feels better. At one point he thought of getting circumcised but then the chance of losing sensation wasn't worth it to him. If he ever has a son he would choose to circumcise him though, or leave it up to his wife. Funny too, his friend was there when we were talking and he was saying to absolutely circumcise. He had no real reason as to why though.

Bro also said he felt better knowing his risks for stds are lower, which i always thought it was higher? And that he just has to clean better than if he weren't intact.

I've got a lot of reading to do!
Re-read this. Maybe repeat it to him. Ask him to talk you through the logic of those statements.

He probably used to wish he was circ'd because he may have felt different. That was a childish/immature view (he'll probably admit to that) and it's also not relevant anymore because more and more are choosing to leave their children intact.

Now as an adult he realizes what he has retained/gained by being intact. He LIKES it.

Yet he would circ his own son??? Why?

My brother and I had this same discussion. He was intact until age 5 or 6 when he had a circ supposedly because he was having erections and his foreskin was splitting. Why a complete circ vs any of the other available treatments, who knows, probably because the drs were just quick to circ. He remembers the aftermath, the week of AGONY he experienced, he remembers our parents making him a warm bath just so he could sit in it to pee. He remembers sitting in a bath of warm water trying to peel the gauze off his raw bloody penis. He REMEMBERS all of this. Yet he told me he would circ his son.

Why? Because he didn't want his son to go through what he did. But when I pointed out that he was actually *guaranteeing* that his son would go through it, while a helpless newborn nonetheless, he kind of faltered in his argument. I encouraged him to look up alternate ways they could have treated his tight foreskin, with stretching exercises, creams, or even a dorsal slit (I believe it's called, where a small incision is made in the foreskin to release it, but not a full circ) All of those were available to him as a child, but my parents chose a full circ instead. Thereby inflicting mind-numbing pain that he remembers nearly 30 years later.

It is so hard to break the cycle sometimes, so hard to force yourself out of a paradigm, so hard to consider alternatives.

You sound like you're well on your way towards researching and educating yourself. I'm so glad your hubby is on board, some men are very unwilling to discuss the topic at all!

Work your way through the links. Make a list of questions you have, make a list of conceptions you have and try to prove or disprove them (the STD argument, for example) Then try to determine whether any of the issues warrant a neonatal circ. If you are methodical and focus on the information, you will come to a conclusion that you feel very good about.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#19 of 38 Old 09-08-2010, 05:00 AM
 
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2boyzmama,

The brother's "logic" made absolutely no sense to me either. He recognizes that he has more sensitivity with an intact penis, and thus, decides he would rather not give that up. But with regard to his son, he would rather have him circ'd rather than experience the full "sensation" of having an intact penis? Hello?

Why would you opt against circ for yourself, because you believe it to be damaging from a sensitivity perspective, but then sign your unborn son up for it?
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#20 of 38 Old 09-08-2010, 11:23 AM
 
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My own intact hubby recently told me he was always insecure about being intact when he was growing up. However, he was told the reason he wasn't circ'd was because he was too sick as a baby. Now, as an adult, he's glad he's intact but that's only because of the research I shared with him. If your brothers/sons understand the functions of the foreskin, I think they will be glad too.
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#21 of 38 Old 09-08-2010, 11:54 PM
 
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Well, I appreciate that there may be intact men out there who (for whatever valid/not valid reasons) wish they had been circ'd as babies ...

however ...

I feel that number is far outpaced by the number of women with circ'd partners/husbands who wish their partners/husbands were INTACT.

Count me as one, and I *know* I'm not alone here, on this board.

hugs
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#22 of 38 Old 09-09-2010, 12:54 PM
 
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Hi whoami. Thanks for being concerned and wise enough to reach out for information and help on this important matter.
One way to think about this is to see that there are four basic hypothetical possibilities here:
1) Circumcising is right for your second son and you do it. No mistake has been made and there is no problem.
2) Circumcising is wrong for your second son and you don't do it. No mistake has been made and there is no problem.
3) Circumcising is right for your second son and you don't do it. A mistake as been made and there is a problem.
4) Circumcising is wrong for your second son and you do it. A mistake has been made and there is a problem.
Since there are no problems with 1) or 2), I think we can forget about those possibilities. What worries us are the possible mistakes and problems involved in 3) and 4).
I think the central thing then is to realize that IF 3) circumcising were right for your son (I don't believe it is, by the way) and you don't do it, he can always "correct" your "mistake" later, when he's an adult, but that if 4) circumcising is WRONG for your son (I believe circumcising is always wrong for every healthy child) and you DO it, NO ONE can correct it later. EVER.
If you're going to make a potentially serious mistake - circumcising him can and might kill your child; pretty doggone serious if you ask me - make one that the person most affected by it can correct later, not one that NO ONE can EVER correct, whether it kills him outright, injures him severely but doesn't kill him, causes him emotional and/or sexual problems later, or kills only the most sensitive part of his penis, which it certainly will do, whatever other problems it may or may not cause.
Of course, from my own viewpoint (I've studied and thought deeply about this issue for over 50 years), not circumcising a healthy child is never a mistake in the first place, but IF it were, at least it's one that your son can "correct" on his own later. Give him that option. Preserve his options for him. Preserve his freedom. Preserve his living, healthy body parts, all of them. You're his mama bear. That's your job. Be as fierce as necessary to do it. You'll feel much better about yourself for the rest of your life if you do.
On the issue of two sons in the same family one intact and one not, I have good friends who circumcised their first boy and not the second. They say that circumcising the first was the worst mistake of their lives, and they could never do it again to anyone. The boys love each other and understand the parents' decisions. Don't even think about circumcising the second child because the first one is circumcised. That's not a good enough reason.
It seems to me that one should never harm or even risk harming one person unnecessarily trying to spare the tender emotions or feelings of someone else. In the first place, it might make the older son feel worse, not better, knowing that his brother was harmed permanently and unnecessarily and maybe even killed to try to prevent him from feeling badly about himself.
More importantly, each person has a human right to his or her own intact body. This isn't about the first son. His situation is already whatever it is. No one can go back in time and do that over again now. This is about the SECOND child - I AM one so maybe this is easier for me to understand - as an INDIVIDUAL. It's HIS life and bodily integrity on the line now.
Just to make the point in the most vivid way I can, worst case scenario, suppose a parent decides to circumcise a second child to make him "look like" the first (to try to cover up for a little while within the family, between the two children, that circumcising healthy children is wrong, which they will learn later on anyway), and the day after the circumcision of the second child, done "for the sake of" the first, the first child dies. The second child then lives an entire lifetime, perhaps a hundred years or more, with an incomplete sex organ because his parents didn't want to have to face telling the first child that they had made a mistake with him and he never even lived long enough for them to do so! Or reverse it. The first child lives 100 years knowing his baby brother was killed by a circumcising meant to spare his own tender feelings. Not good, for EITHER child!
We must respect the human right to bodily integrity of EACH person, no matter who else in the world might have had their human right to bodily integrity violated earlier, or how.
Anyway, after over 50 years of thinking about it, that's how ChildProtector sees it.
My best wishes to you and your growing family. Good health and wholeness to you all.
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#23 of 38 Old 09-09-2010, 03:11 PM
 
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Thanks for all the support and links! We clicked through a couple sites yesterday but we're going to have to look through it again when we have more focused time. Actually, it will mostly be me doing all the reading. My honey is supporting me and is open and eager to learn about this with me.
Glad to hear that.

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I also talked to my brother and he said "what?! mom did that to x but not to me?!" - like what she did to our older brother was a good thing or something. So I guess he thought they were both the same all this time, which might be the case and I guess I'll find out when I talk to my mom. But anyways, he says he used to wish he was circumcised but not anymore and he thinks intercourse feels better. At one point he thought of getting circumcised but then the chance of losing sensation wasn't worth it to him. If he ever has a son he would choose to circumcise him though, or leave it up to his wife. Funny too, his friend was there when we were talking and he was saying to absolutely circumcise. He had no real reason as to why though.

Bro also said he felt better knowing his risks for stds are lower, which i always thought it was higher? And that he just has to clean better than if he weren't intact.
I don't know exactly how old your brother is, but he was probably left intact when there was still really bad advice on foreskin care (okay - there still is, but people also have access to good advice). It's quite likely that he had tearing, scarring and adhesions from the "care" your mom was told to give him. His comment about cleaning suggests the same to me. A circ'd man, ime, just has to get his penis wet, with the rest of his body, during a shower or bath. An intact man? Same thing...although retracting while in the shower or tub does reduce odour which is obviously hugely important in this culture (just have to walk down a stinky supermarket aisle full of soap to know that). Your brother really doesn't have to do anything special in the way of cleaning at all. And, his sons (and yours) wouldn't be in the same kind of minority that he probably was. The situation is changing a lot.

The cleaning/hygiene argument always blows my mind. We should all keep our genitals clean (although not as "clean" as douche and scented tampon manufacturers would have us think), and foreskin doesn't change that. However, there is nothing clean about an open wound in a diaper. Every time I even think about a newborn with a circ'd penis having a bowel movement, I want to vomit.

I can also say that ds1, who is 17, is intact. I've talked to him a little about some of the pro-circ stuff I come across online and he's absolutely horrified by it. He doesn't get why people chop pieces off of baby's penises, and I think he'd fight to the death if someone tried to do it to him. While he's never thanked me in those words, he did once say, "I'm awfully glad you never thought like that".

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#24 of 38 Old 09-09-2010, 03:24 PM
 
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I also talked to my brother and he said "what?! mom did that to x but not to me?!" - like what she did to our older brother was a good thing or something. So I guess he thought they were both the same all this time,
That's something interesting for parents to keep in mind. Sometimes parents feel, even if they've changed their mind about circumcision since having it done to a first son, that they still need to do it to later sons so they all match. But here's your brother, who went all through childhood and into adulthood without ever noticing a difference between himself and his brother!

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If he ever has a son he would choose to circumcise him though, or leave it up to his wife.
Funny thing, at first reading I thought that meant he would leave circumcision of the son up to the son's future wife. And you know.... maybe that's not such a bad idea

Jen
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#25 of 38 Old 09-09-2010, 05:22 PM
 
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The US circ rate has been declining for some time. It was 33% in 2009, the lowest it's ever been in this country for quite a while. So your son will most likely be in the majority if you keep him intact, and the minority if choose to circ.

33% nationwide last year?

Sometimes in Ohio, however, it seems like it's 33% intact. I bet it's still higher out east. I was reading something a few years ago that suggests that the immigrant Latino population in the west and southwest makes things a bit lower than what it seems.

What this article said was basically that the further southwest you get, the more things turn "intact." The more north and east you get, the more things turn "RIC."

Anyone know more into regional stats?
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#26 of 38 Old 09-10-2010, 10:17 PM
 
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I'm an elementary special ed teacher, and most of our boys need bathroom help when entering kindergarten. So I've seen tons of little boys. And around here? More are not circd than are circd. Which I think is cool. My point being, it's unlikely these days that any boy would be alone in it. At least around here (Eugene, OR).
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#27 of 38 Old 09-10-2010, 11:19 PM
 
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What this article said was basically that the further southwest you get, the more things turn "intact." The more north and east you get, the more things turn "RIC."

Anyone know more into regional stats?
I'm not vouching for its accuracy, especially in light of this summer's CDC figures, but this map is really pretty clear. Scroll to the middle of the page, then hover your mouse over each state.

The two pockets of greatest resistance to keeping boys intact seem to be the clusters of MI-IN-OH-KY-PA and WI-IA-NB-WY. All over 80%. If it weren't for the cosmopolitan nature of Chicago and the fact that MN has ceased Medicaid payments for MIC, the entire US Midwest would be bright red. An interesting visual.
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#28 of 38 Old 09-11-2010, 01:52 AM
 
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Ugh. Ohio is tied with Michigan for 85%, the MOST in the nation and probably the world. Ugh. Thanks for the site, though!

I'm assuming this is only RIC and religious-type doesn't count?
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#29 of 38 Old 09-11-2010, 02:30 AM
 
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Yes, it's based on hospital discharge statistics.

Sorry, in my earlier post I meant to say WV instead of PA, although PA and SC are also pretty high MIC states. It looks like the epicenter of that particular clear-cut zone is around Dayton, OH. My friends in Cincinnati still fret to this day whether they did the right thing, even though their happy intact sons are 15 and almost 21. All -- and I mean all -- of their friends circumcised their boys. (And like so many other couples report, their pediatrician refused to advise them what to do, but when they told him they weren't going to circ he said, "Thank goodness. It's really unnecessary. Both my sons are intact.")
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#30 of 38 Old 09-11-2010, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Alright so both my bros are intact. I guess my little bro wasn't wrong all this time. We talked again today, he didn't understand why I am thinking so much about this, but after our chat he gets it now. I even forwarded some of the links to him, just so he could be more informed.

So far most of what I'm learning is making me lean towards keeping new baby boy intact. I've read more to my honey and he's given the nod on some things, but I'm feeling I'll have some convincing to do as it gets closer. I've asked him to find me stuff about the benefits of circumcising if he feels strongly about this, but I'm sensing he won't. We've still got time to think about this though.

Also talked briefly today with mom but that was just about me bugging my bros about their feelings towards their intact penis lol. Thinking I'll ask her in person this weekend about why she chose against circumcising. And also ask why she never thought to bring up the topic when I was pregnant with our first son.

Ma (26) to a happy boy 04.07 and due with another 01.11 ~ finally marrying my HS sweetie 02.12!
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