Hostility Against People Who Circ - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 22 Old 07-03-2011, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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As a mom who chose to have both of her boys circumcised  (1st one out of ignorance, 2nd by informed choice), it seems like I receive a HUGE amount of hostility from intactivists. I understand that everyone has their own opinions on this matter, but if I can support and accept your decision why can't you do the same for people who choose otherwise? I'm in mom's groups with lots of intactivists, and I often feel uncomfortable to change my boys in front of them because of all the judgment being passed. So, intactivists, can't you let bygones be bygones and let other parents make their own decisions just as you have done for your sons?

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#2 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 12:29 AM
 
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i agree. you shouldn't be made to feel bad for a choice you made, especially if you feel good about the decision and comfortable with what happened. maybe it shouldn't be something you talk about with in your group.

as someone with all intact sons, it can be hard to hear that someone did that to their child. BUT i have friends who have and those who have not and i love them all dearly.

i don't think you can stop people from trying to get the info out there, though, which is a good thing. many people make this choice without any information at all. before i had my first son i knew NOTHING about circ other than "didn't every man have it done?" we didn't even talk about NOT doing it in nursing school. it wasn't until i saw one as a nursing student did it sink in. when i held ds#1 in my arms i knew i wouldn't do it to him. at the birth center they didn't do them and our ped didn't do them, so i had to wait 2 weeks, and that two weeks i took care of him and realized it wasn't a big deal. and so we just never had it done. and none of the other 3 boys had it done either. 

for me i don't see it as any different then circing a girl, i wouldn't do it. 

 

h


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#3 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 05:51 AM
 
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IMO circ is not a parents decision to make, so no.

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#4 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 07:00 AM
 
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1.It's not our jobs to make this decision for our babies.

2.It is illegal to circ a girl so it should be for a boy also.

3.It's done usually without pain relief.

4.There are absolutely no studies showing it's necessary so the people making this decision for their sons are doing it for terrible, selfish reasons.

 

Those are some of the reasons I feel hostility towards parents who do this horrible thing to their sons. And I don't apologize for it. Many of us honestly see it as abuse and mutilation. When the US is the ONE COUNTRY in the civilized nations who rountinely circs, that shows us there's an issue(along with our pitiful breastfeeding rates). No research shows circ is necessary...


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#5 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 07:59 AM
 
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I have a feeling this thread will be pulled soon but...


Because I feel that circ is a human rights violation. So it's not like the choice to start solids at 5 mos. vs. 6, cloth vs. sposies, homeschool vs. public....all the other choices we have as parents. The 'right' to remove a functional body part, just because, makes this issue very different than any other parenting decision. You may find that while the issue of pain holds a big place in the arguments of some folks against circumcision even when that factor is removed, circumcision is still just as wrong. You say you are supporting my choice to leave my DS intact, and that's great but the thing is that many of us dont really feel we made a 'choice'...just like we didn't choose to not have their pinkie fingers removed.

I feel like perhaps you are projecting your feelings onto those around you.

 


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#6 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 09:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post

While I understand all the reasons who all do NOT like circumcision, I feel you're letting emotion cloud how you can feel towards other people. If you've never had it done, how do you know how "horrible" it feels? Neither of our sons cried a peep when it was done. Neither seemed uncomfortable during healing. All the men I've asked who are circumcised said they feel completely fine with their parents' decision to do it for them. My husband said he is GLAD his parents had it done to him. While I understand most of you feel that it's a child's choice whether or not to have it done, it's also a parent's responsibility to do what they feel is best for their child. I guess we'll see when our sons grow up how they feel about it, but I think you all demonize it more than it needs to be. In reality, the majority of men really don't care all that much. As long as it works and can get them off, they're happy.


Have you read the posting guidelines for this forum? See the sticky at the top of this forum. This forum does not host advocacy for circ. 

 

 

 

 

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#7 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 09:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post

While I understand all the reasons who all do NOT like circumcision, I feel you're letting emotion cloud how you can feel towards other people. If you've never had it done, how do you know how "horrible" it feels? Neither of our sons cried a peep when it was done. Neither seemed uncomfortable during healing. All the men I've asked who are circumcised said they feel completely fine with their parents' decision to do it for them. My husband said he is GLAD his parents had it done to him. While I understand most of you feel that it's a child's choice whether or not to have it done, it's also a parent's responsibility to do what they feel is best for their child. I guess we'll see when our sons grow up how they feel about it, but I think you all demonize it more than it needs to be. In reality, the majority of men really don't care all that much. As long as it works and can get them off, they're happy.


Please tell me you did not join this forum just to try and make a case for circumcision.

 

Like others have said, we didn't make a choice for our sons. That choice was made by God/nature. Just like they came to us with ears, nipples, toes, eyebrows. The only person who makes a choice about the way the genitals look is the parent who circumcises their son or daughter.

My feelings may be different than others here. I am a registered nurse and I've witnessed circumcisions numerous times (until recently I was an OB nurse). I've also seen a few cases that resulted in very bad outcomes (the head almost completely removed, major bleeding, etc.). Fortunately, I've never witnessed a death but death does sometimes happen due to circ. So while yes, it is a parents duty to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child, putting their child at risk for no medical reason isn't fair to the child IMO. If women in your playgroup look at you funny while you change diapers, maybe it's because they can't imagine why, if you truly researched it and made an informed decision, why you would opt to put your child at risk for your preference. If you feel the women are truly hostile or judgmental, maybe you should find another group. You certainly can't change what has happened. But personally, if someone told me they made an "informed decision" to circ, and didn't have a religious mandate to do it, I'd be uncomfortable around them as well.

 

I do find it very interesting that you say since we haven't had circ done then how can we know how "horrible" it is and isn't it just an emotional response. Then a few sentences later you say your husband was "Glad" circ was done to him. First of all, there are lots of things that go on in the world that I've never experienced but I know in my heart and my head are fundamentally wrong. Second, how can your husband be glad he was circed if he never experienced sex/life/pleasure with an intact foreskin? Isn't his response emotional? For him to say he's not happy would also be admitting something might be flawed w/ his penis and his parents made a mistake in giving permission for the circ (if they did, years ago it was often automatically done w/o parental consent). Maybe you might be interested in reading this :  http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html  .  Regardless of if he's happy about his circ or not, the truth is the foreskin removal forever changed the function of his penis and also your sex life together. I once read on here that circ makes a stick out of something that was supposed to work as a piston. It's true. That's really all I can say about it as MDC doesn't want to host discussions sexual in nature. Feel free to google it if you want more info.

 

I'm not sure what you were looking for when you posted in the case against circumcision. Hope you at least gain some understanding why intactivists feel the way they do. If you feel your mom group is too hostile, maybe you should seek out another.

 

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#8 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 10:07 AM
 
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my husband is circ'd as are most men of this generation and although he isn't mad at his mom at all he does wonder. i mean sure it works great... but what if? as for my MIL she had no idea you could leave it alone. they didn't even ask they just did it back in the 60's in the USA. now that most all her grandsons aren't circ'd she wishes she could have done it differently. 

 

i agree with PP if you feel like your group is just too hostile then find another group. 

 

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#9 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, if it came across as a post in favor of circumcision. That was not my goal. I personally believe each person's decision is their own to make. However, I feel it's unfair for intactivits to ask others to support their decision and accept it while many refuse to do so who choose the opposite. I just feel like it gets people no where to spew such hatred for a single choice that most men (all that I know) don't really care about. I just feel like it's something to divide women further.  Either way you do it, what's done is done. At the end of the day, if the kids are happy and healthy, why does it matter?

 

As for the increase in pleasure, feel free to steer me to scientific evidence supporting the idea that foreskin does increase pleasure. Please no self-reporting studies. I like hard scientific evidence. Thanks!

 

 

Also interested to find out how many of you who do not circumcise in order to give your son the choice, choose to spay & neuter your pets. Isn't that worse? You are taking away the reproductive rights of another creature and those parts are not harming them in any way...just curious how you can remedy those two in your own mind.

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#10 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 10:27 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post

However, I feel it's unfair for intactivits to ask others to support their decision and accept it while many refuse to do so who choose the opposite.



"My brother chooses not to beat his wife, and I feel that it's unfair for him to ask others to support that decision and accept it while he refuses to do so for men who choose to do the opposite."

 

Even if you don't think circ is a human rights violation, it really can't be THAT hard to wrap your head around the fact that people are unwilling to accept and support a 'decision' that they consider to be abusive. 

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#11 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 11:10 AM
 
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Are you ok with people circ'ing their daughters?  Would you support my right to choose that for my child?  Let me give you a hypothetical...my daughter is severely disabled and will never be able to have sex.  She will never use her genitals for anything other than urinating.  She will never have a baby.  She's started to have "hygiene issues" down there and we feel it might be in her best interest to remove the extra skin.  But putting her out for the procedure would be too risky due to her respiratory issues.  So we're just going to strap her to a board, spread her legs and do it.  She's non-verbal and wouldn't be able to tell us "no".  And almost every doctor thinks she's cognitively at about a newborn level and possibly doesn't even know what's going on.  Hey, she might not even remember it!  Is it ok?

 

Surely you can see why so many of us can't ignore the human rights issues behind strapping a child down and removing a functional piece of tissue.

 

You said you made an "informed decision"?  Did you really risk death, loss of his whole penis, hemorrhaging, infection, meatal stenosis, excessive scarring, need for future surgery, risk of him feeling he shouldn't have been, ect for a few *possible* benefits (please tell me you actually read those studies and didn't take them at face value since most of them are highly flawed!)?

 

FWIW I've never met anyone who actually researched circumcision and still chose to do it (aside from mothers who were bullied into it, but I don't consider that a "choice").  Would you really have accepted death as a side effect?

 

I wonder about people's reasons for circ'ing, but I never berate them for it.  I am VERY against it, but I never look down on a person for doing it.  I just assume they didn't KNOW what it really is.  They think it's truly necessary for good health, or that it really is painless, or that the foreskin really is "extra" disposable skin.  If someone told me they knew the foreskin was there for a reason, knew the possible side effects of the surgery, including death, knew their son might one day suffer serious complications and/or feel violated simply for having had it done to them, and knew it was painful and still chose to do it....yes I would judge.  I'm not ashamed to admit it.  I agree with the other posters who have said that if you feel judged you should get new friends.  They aren't likely to change their minds about how they feel just because you cry "parental choice!"

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#12 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 11:15 AM
 
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All of us here in CAC also believe that circumcision is each person's decision to make for his or her own body. Not anyone else's. You have exercised control over your sons' bodies that should have been solely their decisions to make about how their own penises should look, feel, and function. Pretty much no one here would deny that a male over the age of consent -- or a female for that matter -- has the right to alter their genitals surgically for any reason or for no reason at all. But all of us here agree that genital surgery is not the parent's decision to make.

 

Would you have made a similar "choice" for any daughters, to remove their foreskins? All normal humans are born with foreskins, which develop from the same fetal structures in utero. A female's foreskin is her clitoral hood. Other cultures believe as strongly as you do that parents have the right to exercise their "choice" by deciding to remove all of the clitoral hood, and sometimes more, of a female child. If you were in a playgroup of women from, say, Indonesia or Egypt, where all of the women had had their baby girls circumcised to remove their clitoral hoods because it's "cleaner and healthier" and the women were circumcised and GLAD of it, how would you feel every time a girl baby had her diaper changed in front of you? Wouldn't at least some part of you -- since you have had the benefit of intact genitals, which these girls and women will never have -- be sad for them, and sad that their mothers were culturally indoctrinated into making this permanent decision forever altering their daughters' bodies?

 

As far as evidence on the structure and function of the intact penis, and the removal of the most nerve-rich part of the male body, you should read these peer-reviewed studies from the British Journal of Urology that describe the physiology and innervation of the foreskin:

 

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/taylor/

 

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/cold-taylor/

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/full

 

As for your language -- it's more accurate to state that circumcision likely decreases sexual pleasure because it destroys the ridged band and permanently removes thousands of unique, specialized nerve endings. Humans (both male and female) evolved with foreskins (or were created by God that way if you prefer). The "standard" is intact and circumcision is an aberration from normal, not the other way around. Just as breastfeeding is the norm and formula feeding has risks -- formula fed babies are less healthy than breastfed babies, and formula feeding is not the health norm against which breastfeeding is compared.

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#13 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post

Are you ok with people circ'ing their daughters?  Would you support my right to choose that for my child?  Let me give you a hypothetical...my daughter is severely disabled and will never be able to have sex.  She will never use her genitals for anything other than urinating.  She will never have a baby.  She's started to have "hygiene issues" down there and we feel it might be in her best interest to remove the extra skin.  But putting her out for the procedure would be too risky due to her respiratory issues.  So we're just going to strap her to a board, spread her legs and do it.  She's non-verbal and wouldn't be able to tell us "no".  And almost every doctor thinks she's cognitively at about a newborn level and possibly doesn't even know what's going on.  Hey, she might not even remember it!  Is it ok?

 

Surely you can see why so many of us can't ignore the human rights issues behind strapping a child down and removing a functional piece of tissue.

 

You said you made an "informed decision"?  Did you really risk death, loss of his whole penis, hemorrhaging, infection, meatal stenosis, excessive scarring, need for future surgery, risk of him feeling he shouldn't have been, ect for a few *possible* benefits (please tell me you actually read those studies and didn't take them at face value since most of them are highly flawed!)?

 

FWIW I've never met anyone who actually researched circumcision and still chose to do it (aside from mothers who were bullied into it, but I don't consider that a "choice").  Would you really have accepted death as a side effect?

 

I wonder about people's reasons for circ'ing, but I never berate them for it.  I am VERY against it, but I never look down on a person for doing it.  I just assume they didn't KNOW what it really is.  They think it's truly necessary for good health, or that it really is painless, or that the foreskin really is "extra" disposable skin.  If someone told me they knew the foreskin was there for a reason, knew the possible side effects of the surgery, including death, knew their son might one day suffer serious complications and/or feel violated simply for having had it done to them, and knew it was painful and still chose to do it....yes I would judge.  I'm not ashamed to admit it.  I agree with the other posters who have said that if you feel judged you should get new friends.  They aren't likely to change their minds about how they feel just because you cry "parental choice!"


I get frustrated when people play the "possible outcomes" card. Every time I drive my child anywhere, there is a possibility of death. Anytime I let my boys jump on the trampoline there is risk of serious injury. If I worried about every little thing that could go wrong, we'd never get anywhere. Also, people can be fully informed and choose to do so for religious reasons (which is partly why we chose to). Whatever the reason why someone chooses to do it, can't you just feel comfortable knowing that you tried to provide real information, and at the end of the day, that's all you can do. Harboring negative feelings about that person for choosing otherwise just doesn't seem fair. I'm sure they're not doing the same because you chose otherwise.

 

Again I'm not saying do it or don't do it. All I'm saying is try not to be so harsh when people choose other than what you tried to convince them otherwise of. There are strong feelings on both sides. And these parents are just trying to make the best decisions for their kids just as you are. Although they may be different, they aren't abusing/putting their kids in extreme danger maliciously or really at all. Everything we do in life has risks.

 

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#14 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post




I get frustrated when people play the "possible outcomes" card. Every time I drive my child anywhere, there is a possibility of death. Anytime I let my boys jump on the trampoline there is risk of serious injury. If I worried about every little thing that could go wrong, we'd never get anywhere. Also, people can be fully informed and choose to do so for religious reasons (which is partly why we chose to). Whatever the reason why someone chooses to do it, can't you just feel comfortable knowing that you tried to provide real information, and at the end of the day, that's all you can do. Harboring negative feelings about that person for choosing otherwise just doesn't seem fair. I'm sure they're not doing the same because you chose otherwise.

 

Again I'm not saying do it or don't do it. All I'm saying is try not to be so harsh when people choose other than what you tried to convince them otherwise of. There are strong feelings on both sides. And these parents are just trying to make the best decisions for their kids just as you are. Although they may be different, they aren't abusing/putting their kids in extreme danger maliciously or really at all. Everything we do in life has risks.

 


You are right that we can't keep our kids in a bubble.  We decide risk vs benefit everyday.  The difference though is that most things that are a real risk are things we HAVE to do or things that seriously improve our quality of lives.  We might choke when we eat, but it's something we HAVE to do.  We might die in a car accident, but for most people driving is necessary, largely in part because of how society is laid out these days, with business and residential areas spaced entirely too far apart to walk everywhere.  I actually moved closer to my work and a large city because I didn't feel comfortable driving so far every day.  I did what I could to reduce my risk.  Letting children ride bikes and swim in pools is enjoyable and provides exercise which is necessary for their health.

 

Circumcision is neither necessary nor does it improve a child's quality of life.  Where is the benefit that outweighs the risk?  Possible sexual benefits a child won't experience?  Benefits a man can choose for himself when he gets older?  I chose to risk death so my DD could have a gtube put in.  For us it was worth the risk because having an NG taped to her face permanently would have lessened her quality of life.  It's hard on her nasal passages, would have to be reinserted all the time, could affect her ability to swallow and the tape would break down her skin.  These are REAL reasons to justify surgery.  Not miniscule possible future benefits that won't even be experienced until the person is fully grown and having sex.

 

I've had MANY people judge me for not having my son circumcised.  If you think people who circ are the only ones who get judged you are sadly mistaken.  The difference is, I don't care because I know I did the right thing. If you are confident in your decision, why does it bother you what others think?

 

You know, almost 4 years ago I had possibly every parent's worst nightmare come true.  My daughter nearly died in childbirth and suffered a serious brain injury.  She will never walk or talk.  She can't even swallow her own spit.  We have to suction it out of her mouth 50 times a day.  The worst part...she almost died during our HOMEBIRTH.  You can't even imagine the judgment that was passed on me.  I was selfish and destroyed my daughter's life, or so I was to believe.  I re-played her birth over and over in my head hundreds of times in the first few weeks.  I came to the conclusion that it wasn't the homebirth that caused her injury, but just her birth in general.  I made peace with the ordeal.  The comments and judgment no longer bother me since I am confident I made the right choice.  No one can take that from me.  When someone says something horrible to me, I feel angry sometimes, but it's not because they "make me feel guilty".  No one can make me feel that but myself.  I'm angry because their sheer IGNORANCE makes them feel that they can be rude and horrible to another human being. 

 

If you are confident in your decision, move on.  Others can't make you feel badly about your decision.  Only YOU can make you feel that. 

 

It seems to me like you are trying to get us to admit that it's your personal decision and we just aren't going to do that.  Will it make you feel better if we do?  Will you feel better about your decision if we do?  What does that say about the choice you made?  That you need someone else to justify your reasoning?

 

You never did answer my question about female circ.

 

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#15 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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You are right that we can't keep our kids in a bubble.  We decide risk vs benefit everyday.  The difference though is that most things that are a real risk are things we HAVE to do or things that seriously improve our quality of lives.  We might choke when we eat, but it's something we HAVE to do.  We might die in a car accident, but for most people driving is necessary, largely in part because of how society is laid out these days, with business and residential areas spaced entirely too far apart to walk everywhere.  I actually moved closer to my work and a large city because I didn't feel comfortable driving so far every day.  I did what I could to reduce my risk.  Letting children ride bikes and swim in pools is enjoyable and provides exercise which is necessary for their health.

 

Circumcision is neither necessary nor does it improve a child's quality of life.  Where is the benefit that outweighs the risk?  Possible sexual benefits a child won't experience?  Benefits a man can choose for himself when he gets older?  I chose to risk death so my DD could have a gtube put in.  For us it was worth the risk because having an NG taped to her face permanently would have lessened her quality of life.  It's hard on her nasal passages, would have to be reinserted all the time, could affect her ability to swallow and the tape would break down her skin.  These are REAL reasons to justify surgery.  Not miniscule possible future benefits that won't even be experienced until the person is fully grown and having sex.

 

I've had MANY people judge me for not having my son circumcised.  If you think people who circ are the only ones who get judged you are sadly mistaken.  The difference is, I don't care because I know I did the right thing. If you are confident in your decision, why does it bother you what others think?

 

You know, almost 4 years ago I had possibly every parent's worst nightmare come true.  My daughter nearly died in childbirth and suffered a serious brain injury.  She will never walk or talk.  She can't even swallow her own spit.  We have to suction it out of her mouth 50 times a day.  The worst part...she almost died during our HOMEBIRTH.  You can't even imagine the judgment that was passed on me.  I was selfish and destroyed my daughter's life, or so I was to believe.  I re-played her birth over and over in my head hundreds of times in the first few weeks.  I came to the conclusion that it wasn't the homebirth that caused her injury, but just her birth in general.  I made peace with the ordeal.  The comments and judgment no longer bother me since I am confident I made the right choice.  No one can take that from me.  When someone says something horrible to me, I feel angry sometimes, but it's not because they "make me feel guilty".  No one can make me feel that but myself.  I'm angry because their sheer IGNORANCE makes them feel that they can be rude and horrible to another human being. 

 

If you are confident in your decision, move on.  Others can't make you feel badly about your decision.  Only YOU can make you feel that. 

 

It seems to me like you are trying to get us to admit that it's your personal decision and we just aren't going to do that.  Will it make you feel better if we do?  Will you feel better about your decision if we do?  What does that say about the choice you made?  That you need someone else to justify your reasoning?

 

You never did answer my question about female circ.

 




I didn't answer about female circ. because I know nothing about it. I don't have girls (quite unfortunately), so I really have no clue. Plus, it's nothing that is dictated in the religion we choose to practice.

 

As for the wording, I apologize. I understand no one can make me feel a certain way. It does lend towards feelings of anger. I'm sure people who don't circ. feel some judgment, but that has not been my experience thus far since I generally roll with people who do not or those who have don't care either way. I don't need/want anyone's validation about what I chose. I feel completely confident about the decision my husband and I made. I just don't get all the berating or making it out to be something way worse than what it actually is. Humans do much worse to other animal species.

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#16 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 12:35 PM
 
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Of course I'm feeling hostile to those who violate the human rights of others. It's a righteous anger. But do I act on that hostile feeling? No. Human beings can control their words and actions.
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#17 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post
Although they may be different, they aren't abusing/putting their kids in extreme danger maliciously or really at all.


Nope, sorry, hacking off part of a normal, healthy, child's genitals for no medically necessary purpose is abuse.  And no, I'm not going to accept it as a valid parental choice.  No matter how sad it makes you that I'm being judgmental.

 

Now, people that I love and respect have had that done that to their children, and I don't think they are Terrible Evil People, but the practice itself is still vile and I'm perfectly happy to judge and condemn it as such.

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#18 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 01:08 PM
 
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I personally believe each person's decision is their own to make. 

 

 


So do I. 

 

It's the body with the penis that gets to decide if he wants his own penis to be circed. Not anyone elses. Why should anyone have the right to make a permanent change to a helpless infants genitals?

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#19 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Also interested to find out how many of you who do not circumcise in order to give your son the choice, choose to spay & neuter your pets. Isn't that worse? You are taking away the reproductive rights of another creature and those parts are not harming them in any way...just curious how you can remedy those two in your own mind.


 

You are comparing your child to a pet. 

 

 

well I can see how if you feel you own your child like you own a pet you would look at them the same way.

 

oh and FTR I have 2 intact female dogs. 

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#20 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 01:20 PM
 
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Sorry, if it came across as a post in favor of circumcision. That was not my goal. I personally believe each person's decision is their own to make.

 

That sounds great, but why doesn't it apply to your sons?

 

 

However, I feel it's unfair for intactivits to ask others to support their decision and accept it while many refuse to do so who choose the opposite. I just feel like it gets people no where to spew such hatred for a single choice that most men (all that I know) don't really care about.

 

Very few men will even think deeply about this, because the idea that there might be something "wrong" with their penis isn't something theyr'e going to entertain. Men have side effects from circumcision that they don't even realize are related to being circ'd - maybe if they did, they'd feel differently about it. In any case, if men want to be circ'd, I feel they have every right to get circ'd. I don't feel that parents have a moral right to make that choice for their children.

 

And, I don't ask anyone to support me in my decision. I, quite frankly, don't care about the opinion of people who think it's okay to have the genitals of their babies ripped and cut off shortly after birth. It's one of those "consider the source" things, yk? People who don't support my "choice" to avoid performing invasive, cosmetic surgery on newborn genitals are living in a different world than I am, and their opinions don't matter to me (unless they start trying to legislate the performance of said surgery).

 

I just feel like it's something to divide women further.  Either way you do it, what's done is done. At the end of the day, if the kids are happy and healthy, why does it matter?

 

Because, it's a violation of human rights. If I chopped off the earlobes of my newborn, would you say "as long as the child is healthy and happy, why does it matter?". If not, why not? Chopping off a baby's earlobes would be a much more minor "procedure" than circ.

 

As for the increase in pleasure, feel free to steer me to scientific evidence supporting the idea that foreskin does increase pleasure. Please no self-reporting studies. I like hard scientific evidence. Thanks!

 

I can't see how foreskin could possibly increase pleasure, as foreskin is the default. What you're talking about is whether or not circ decreases pleasure. Please put this the right way around.

 

Also interested to find out how many of you who do not circumcise in order to give your son the choice, choose to spay & neuter your pets. Isn't that worse? You are taking away the reproductive rights of another creature and those parts are not harming them in any way...just curious how you can remedy those two in your own mind.

 

Seriously? My pets can't make any medical choices for themselves, at any age. They're not able to understand what's going on and make such decisions. My sons, when they grow up, are fully able to do so. However, the fact that you chose to draw this parallel tells me all I need to know about the way you view your children.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#21 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinimalistMommi View Post

but to cry it's a violation of human rights or abuse is going way overboard.


Cutting off part of a healthy baby's #$*% is abusive.  shrug.gif   Really, cutting off a part of any perfectly healthy newborn is abusive, the fact that the genitals are involved makes it extra disturbing..

 

I can just keep repeating myself, I suppose.
 

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#22 of 22 Old 07-04-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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I am closing this thread due to the fact that it is against the forum guidelines.
Quote:
Mothering questions routine medical circumcision and advocates for informed consent. TCAC hosts discussion of the reasons to avoid circumcision, the history of the procedure, medical issues and studies, complications, the needs and rights of the child, care of the intact child's penis and other educational topics. We are not interested in hosting discussion on merits of routine infant medical circumcision
I will allow the thread to remain in TCAC in the hopes that it will be educational to other members who may come here in support of RIC.

 
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