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#1 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To a very sad and tragic life, changed in an instant.

Just thought I should share since many references to this man have been made on the board.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/10...mer_obit040510
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#2 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 10:02 AM
 
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#3 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 10:10 AM
 
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Oh, that's so sad

I didn't see the references to him here, but I think I had read about him before or saw something on TV?
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#4 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 10:11 AM
 
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He was on 20/20 or Dateline, or one of those type shows I think. Didn't he have a wife and family?
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#5 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 10:13 AM
 
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How very sad- what a tragic life.

Jackie
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#6 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 10:27 AM
 
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Poor guy.
Just sick what they did to him.


On a side note, if you cant make a straight person gay, then you sure cant make a gay person straight.
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#7 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 12:08 PM
 
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This is indeed a sad case and the pathetic thing about it is it was a result of a needless and contra-indicated cosmetic surgical procedure that continues to be performed more than 3,000 times a day. This is presented as the exception to the rule but it happens on a regular basis every year. The man who did this to David, Dr. Kenneth Glasberg of Johns-Hopkins Medical Center still supports circumcision and gender reassignment even after the experience with David. As a matter of fact, despite several negative studies and intense criticism from the victims of gender reassignment, he still strongly advocates reassignment at the earliest possible opportunity for the victims of botched circumcision and ambigious genitalia. He is a loose cannon in this area because he is dealing with parents who are at a very susceptible time in their life and don't have the benefit of the knowledge that Glasberg knows all too well. They don't know the keywords to mount an internet search. Even though there is a show that has been produced about it and even though it has shown on ABC, NBC, PBS, The Discovery Channel, The History Channel, The Learning Channel and The Discovery Health Channel, many of those who need the information most are not watching those channels but instead are watching sit-coms or reality shows. The information never gets to them. They are at the mercy of the likes of Glasberg who intentionally ignores research to the contrary and recommends and insists on performing this gender changing surgery at their most vulnerable moment. That is unethical in the extreme and Glasberg should lose his license to practice.

However, American medicine just doesn't work like that. The authorities who have jurisdiction over cases like this refuse to do anything and it is up to the individual to bring suit against those who harm them. Bringing suit is a very expensive proposition even if you can find an attorney who will take the case on a contingency basis. The plaintiff still has to pay all of the court costs and investigative fees up front as well as the cost of expert witnesses, etc. David was not a wealthy man and worked a hourly job. With a family, I doubt he could muster the funds to punish Glasberg and so he gets off scot-free.

This is at a time when doctors are intensely lobbying state legislatures and Congress for a cap on medical malpractice awards. The figure most often bandied about is $250,000.00. That sounds like a lot of money to a lot of us but to an insurance company, it is not a lot. What this does is reduce the possible award to a point that most lawyers will not take cases on a contingincy basis because there is not enough money reward possible. They also know that with this cap, it will have the effect of reducing all jury awards further distancing the medical profession from responsibility. David Reimer would not have been even remotely adequately compensated for what he has been through. How much is a man's life worth? What was he worth to his wife and children? What value would he put on the ability to sire his own children and spread his genes into eternity? Certainly more than $250,000.00.

Even though their own medical fraternities have had official position statements against circumcision for more than 30 years, these unethical practitioners still actively solicit the procedure and still down play the risks to make parents think they are practically non-existant. How many lives have to be lost or ruined and how many men have to have their sexual lives devastated before we hold them to task and make them accept responsibility? By carefully hiding the truth and by carefully couching their advice to new parents, they have avoided prosecution and responsibility for their deeds. That's going to end some day and we all have a part in making it happen. Some day, there will be a massive class action suit against all medical providers who have performed the procedure and there will be hel* to pay. It can't come soon enough! Too many lives have already been devastated and too many lives have been lost.




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#8 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 02:22 PM
 
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What a tragic ending to a tragic life. And the kicker is that he started out intact, but was circ'd later thanks to an ignorant (uninformed) Dr who screwed up big time - All for nothing.

Frank has said it all - and very eloquently too.
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#9 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 04:28 PM
 
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It's absolutely horrible what happened to him. I saw him on Oprah a few years ago.
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#10 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 04:51 PM
 
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I hate Dr Money even worse than Dr Glasburg. I was amazed at what David did, according to As Nature Made Him. He confronted the doctor who circumcised him - but not the psycho psychiatrist who dealt with him all those years. Dr. Money got the parents to castrate their child, agree to participate in a lifelong unethical experiment, and everyone around David participated in the deceit. All this is supposed to be balanced by the good of the knowledge we get on the nature of gender. But it really was supposed to be justified by proving the doctor's theory. When the experiment yielded other results, doctors went on saying it worked and this experiment is used to justify sex-reassignment for other children!
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#11 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 04:56 PM
 
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Oh, how awful. I remember seeing him on Oprah a few years ago. As I recall, he had a twin brother and they went in for their circumcisions at 8 months old. I also seem to remember they used an electric cautering device to do it. *shudder* That's really sad. I hope he and his family find peace.

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#12 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 05:49 PM
 
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that is heartbreaking. those charlatans ought to be castrated themselves. (yes, this stuff makes me angry- and i mean 'stuff' in the british sense.) i'd settle for enough financial compensation to make doctors think twice about destroying a person's life as an experiment.

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#13 of 49 Old 05-10-2004, 07:41 PM
 
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that's absolutely heartbreaking. i saw him speak on oprah, and several other shows, made me cry. and made me furious. what a sad end to a tragic life. bless his heart. and his family.

Erin, 33, salty southern mama, sitting by the sea with my DH35, DD10, DS4, &DD2!
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#14 of 49 Old 05-11-2004, 01:13 PM
 
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Why were they circed at 8 months old? And what did the doctor say to the parents - did he actually admit that he screwed up? Why is it he is still allowed to practice? Can't doctors get fired for anything without first being sued?

Too bad David didn't kidnap this man and mutilate him before killing himself.
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#15 of 49 Old 05-11-2004, 02:15 PM
 
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I seem to remember that his twin brother never did get circ'c because of the butchering of his brother.

Does anyone know this to be true?

A sad ending indeed.

Has there been any further media reports on his death?
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#16 of 49 Old 05-11-2004, 04:24 PM
 
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As well as I can remember, the twins were premies and the circumcisions were put off until their fragile bodies could withstand the rigors of the procedure. The doctor was using an electrocautery gun and burned through David's penis. This same thing happened to two boys at Atlanta's Northside Hospital in 1986 by two different doctors on the same day and same shift. Obviously, everything stopped and David's brother was never done. I can imagine that their parents lost their enthusiasm for the procedure and decided to protect the other son. I also imagine the doctor would be very reluctant to risk the same thing happening to the brother at the same thing. He knew he was deep in a world of shirt and his career was about to take a drastic detour.


Greaseball:

Doctors are usually self employed or partners in a practice. Unless they fire themselves or their partners kick them out of the practice, there is little that can happen to them. After the Atlanta incident, the name of the doctor was not well publicised almost if it were some big secret and the event was only front page material once. After that, it was buried in the back pages of the Metro section. The general public was so unaware of the event that the circumcision rate was only slightly affected (about 2%) and only for a few weeks. For one ethnic group, the circumcision rate actually increased and for a couple of months exceeded the rate for Euro/caucasians. The hospital and practitioners actually solicited the procedure to keep revenues up and minimize the impact on the bottom line.

I suspect you have seen about all you will see in the media. This man's life was really all about medical and psychological research and as a lab animal, few outside our movement will really take notice. That is really sad because there will be others like David and Joshua Sweet. Unnecessary medical mishaps that survived and become oddities to be viewed in horror in the media.





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#17 of 49 Old 05-11-2004, 04:37 PM
 
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Although it's mainly the doctor's fault, I can't help but blame the parents. I guess maybe they had no way of knowing it was dangerous, though, so I'm conflicted...

I hope those guns aren't being used anymore.
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#18 of 49 Old 05-11-2004, 11:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
Although it's mainly the doctor's fault, I can't help but blame the parents. I guess maybe they had no way of knowing it was dangerous, though, so I'm conflicted...

I hope those guns aren't being used anymore.

You have to remember that the Reimer twins were born about 1966. This was before the first AAP position statement, the internet, consent forms, NOCIRC or anything else. The doctors did it based simply on the parents ability to pay. If they thought the parents had the financial ability to pay for the procedure, they just did it without even asking. This was the way most doctors and hospitals operated. It wasn't until a 1973 lawsuit that they even began asking. Back then it was difficult for even a doctor to get the information that it wasn't necessary and practically impossible for a parent. This was also the time when doctors were considered infallible demi-gods and were never questioned. I can give doctors back then some latitude that I can not give them now. I can not realistically blame parents of that era

The use of electrocautery guns was discontinued after the Atlanta incident. The insurer of the equipment manufacturer paid out $22.8 million to the victim's families and since then manufacturer of the equipment has made a point to educate doctors and hospitals that their equipment is not to be used for circumcisions and they will not be responsible for any accidents. They also clearly label the equipment as such. They don't want to go there again.

An interesting side note is that the two Atlanta boys will be reaching 18 years old this year or next and the doctor and Northside Hospital have not been held accountable yet. I would be surprised if we don't see a lawsuit soon. One of the boys had sexual reassignment ala David Reimer and it has never been made public what happened to the other. These things are usually held very secret until a court case begins and then it becomes very public. Circumcision needs that publicity!




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#19 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 03:04 AM
 
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I studied this case as presented to me in college (as a success) and then searched for more information and have followed him since then, from anonymous in Rolling Stone to public on Oprah and now his sad death. It sparked my interest in parent's rights to prevent surgery and the occurence of "merms" and "ferms" in society. That led me to research circumcision. So I've got an opinion on it all.
I am against (almost) all gender surgery on young children. I cannot see the point in conducting any type of cosmetic surgery on tiny parts that have not matured.
No reductions of clitorises that are "too big"
No castrations and gender reassignment for penises that are "too small"
No routine circumcisions
Very limited corrections of hypospadias
I think every adult should enter their sexual life with fully functioning original parts. Looks funny isn't part of function. It should be our birthright to mutilate () ourselves as we see fit at the age of majority. I don't have a probem with adult gender reassignment (or teen reassignment for better results) or adult circumcision or piercings or any other optional modifications.

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#20 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 06:02 AM
 
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How very very tragic!!! Heres another link to the story: http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2004.../f259.raw.html



I feel so sorry for him - maybe now he finally has some peace...
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#21 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 06:17 AM
 
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So sad. I have read the book "as nature made him", it's absolutely tragic, what ongoing violation he suffered. I just read the above article, and his brother had died 2 years earlier. I am totally opposed to circumcision, just based on when they go 'right', and I hope with all my heart we stop doing this to our boys
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#22 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 03:06 PM
 
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He possibly overdosed on a medication to treat schizophrenia?? So let's get this straight.

He's born a boy.

He's penis gets burned off during a circ.

He gets reassigned into a girl. Surgery after surgery. Hormones after hormones.

Constant dr visits. Constant therapy. He gets penetrated by the "dr" to keep his man made vagina open. He has to strip down with his brother for "medical evaluation". Years of humiliation. Years of rape. Years of fear. Years of lies.

I'm really a boy. No more female hormones. Reconstruction.

Sees the "dr". He must be crazy to reject the good dr's ideas. The dr's always right. He's just confused. I bet he has mental disorders. Yep, Schizophrenia. That can only explain why he has this different personality. It's not that he's really a boy. No. Can't be that. Dr's theory has been in countless medical journals. This has been a success.

More med's. Time to completely f*ck him up. We've destoyed the body. Time to destroy the mind. He needs to be "made right". He's the dr. He can fix him.

Med's. Therapy. Med's. Confusion. Med's. Who is this person?

Love. Family. Kids. Hope?

Med's.

Peace.

Good Bye. You will be cherished for your true soul forever. The smile. The sparkle. The fight.

How does schizophrenia happen? I thought it was a genetic disorder? I have looked into adoption and one of the things that was brought up was schizophrenia. I was told to be careful about any schizo in the family. It can be passed down to the baby.

Is this true? Is this a learned disease or a genetic disease?
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#23 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 03:12 PM
 
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I think this man's experience would make anyone crazy. Schizophrenia is probably the most normal reaction to a situation like this. There isn't even a clear list of what is schiz and what isn't, but I can't imagine this man went through life with any sort of "normal people" thoughts and actions.
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#24 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 05:01 PM
 
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CNN tonight 7-8 - Anderson Cooper's show will be about David.
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#25 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 10:07 PM
 
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To clarify - it wasn't David who was schizophrenic. It was his brother Brian,who died 2 years ago, whose death David was mourning.

That said, what a tragedy. Reading the article, and later the book, really made me think about not only circumcision, but the surgeries performed on the countless children born with 'ambiguous genitalia'. So many of them have their sexual function and feeling permanently destroyed. What a despicable tragedy that this experiment was forced on David and his family. Horrible that so many others were harmed because of it.

Frank - according to the RS article (http://www.infocirc.org/rollston.htm) the boys were circumcised on the advice of a doctor because of their phimosis, not because the parents chose it...

"But when the twins were 7 months old, Linda noticed that their foreskins were closing, making it hard for them to urinate. Their pediatrician explained that the condition, called phimosis, was not rare and was easily remedied by circumcision. He referred them to a surgeon. "
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#26 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 10:50 PM
 
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Thanks for the clarification, Emily. So the doctor misdiagnosed phimosis and prescribed the most invasive cure and screwed that up royally? The end result is that a man lives a short life of torture because of an ignorant doctor that would not read a little to get the correct diagnosis and then uses a shotgun to kill a roach? Sounds like not a whole lot has changed in 40 years.




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#27 of 49 Old 05-12-2004, 10:57 PM
 
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I don't get CNN. Will there be a story on their website?
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#28 of 49 Old 05-13-2004, 12:28 AM
 
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How horrible!

 

 

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#29 of 49 Old 05-13-2004, 01:17 AM
 
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this story is so sad, I feel so badly for his wife and children left behind


so many people hurt
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#30 of 49 Old 05-13-2004, 01:00 PM
 
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so, so sad

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