We've been invited to a Bris... - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 51 Old 03-02-2005, 07:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momma4
Rabid dogs couldn't get you to share something important with , and/or give support to a Jewish friend? Or would one simply avoid, and not make friends with Jews because you might get invited to a bris?

I have Jewish friends and I'm not going to end the friendship about this but a pack of rabid dogs couldn't chase me to a bris. I'd just have to become a mean mother of all pit bulls and stand them off.

I have a cousin that is addicted to drugs and apparently he feels they are important because he has gone to jail several times about them but I'm not going to go over and share them with him.



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#32 of 51 Old 03-02-2005, 07:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by liseux
Frank, I read a book called "Circumcision, a history of the world`s oldest surgery"

I haven't read the book but I have read excerpts from it that is as you say. I have also read several other theories on it that also make some sense but to get into it would require getting pretty deeply into religion and of course, we can't do that here. If you would like some brief details, PM me.



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#33 of 51 Old 03-02-2005, 11:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momma4
Rabid dogs couldn't get you to share something important with , and/or give support to a Jewish friend? Or would one simply avoid, and not make friends with Jews because you might get invited to a bris?
It has nothing to do with Jews or Jewish friends.

I personally would never, ever go to a "baby-genitals-cutting" party, no matter whether held for a specific religious purpose or not. I also would NOT go with a friend who was having their baby's ears pierced.

I am not going to support mutilation of nonconsenting childrens bodies, NO MATTER THE REASON IT'S DONE.

Way to try and make the thread into anti-semitism though.
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#34 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 06:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
Don't go. You don't agree with it. You shouldn't have to watch it or be uncomfortable or fake happiness for them on that day. Of course you are happy for the birth of their baby - I assume you sent a nice card and/or gift already?

On the side discussion re: can you have Jewish friends if you don't believe in circ - well, of course! Why not? I have many friends who vary in many different ways. Thinking we will agree on each and every issue - and refusing friendships if not - well, that doesn't make sense to me. I think I can be a good friend - and be true to myself - and still not attend a friend's son's bris. I can appreciate that it is important and necessary in their eyes - but they also need to appreciate that I have a different view. As long as we are all respectful and try to understand the other viewpoint, we are ok.
I totally agree with this. Thanks for putting it so well!

I also agree with Emily - I am sad that there has been an attempt to turn this into an anti-semitic issue when it is NOT.
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#35 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momma4
So I am assuming that one wouldn't tell a Jewish friend to her face "I wouldn't attend your son's bris if rabid dogs chased me there"? Because that wouldn't be respectful. At all.

I wouldn't just bring it up but if I were pushed, I would tell them that I just don't agree with circumcision from an ethical standpoint and try to leave it at that. However, if I were pushed, I would give them a respectful description of why I don't think it is ethical to the degree that they wanted to discuss it. From experience, I've found that most people who want to circumcise really want to end the discussion very early so it's not a problem.

I did get into this discussion very lightly with a Jewish friend. My ex-GF actually brought it up thinking she would change my mind about the issue. She mentioned it to the Jewish friend who said she had witnessed two bris's and would never go to another and that it was a decisive reason that she had left Judiasm and started attending a non-denominational church. We had a very short discussion since we were on the same page. Ex-GF sat there with her mouth hanging open. Not what she expected! The snake she brought to the party turned around and bit her.




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#36 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by liseux
I just got into this very argument on a debate site and I got absolutely pounced on when I said I would`t attend a female circ ceremnoy either. I hate circumcision for any reason, especially on a child. If it was a 40 year old who had studied hard and wanted a bris, then I`m happy for him but I still don`t want to see a penis getting cut.
Interesting point. I would participate in the celebration of an ADULT making an informed choice to have a circumcision (like you, I wouldn't really care to watch it though, lol!), male OR female. Now, that might sound absolutely NUTTY but I have known a woman who CHOSE of her own free will to have a ritualistic removal of her clitoral hood not related to religion, but related to her own personal choices...she was very heavy into the body modification culture and chose that as an expression of herself. She did have a small celebration type thing and then quietly excused herself and her attendants to go have it done. It was something very special to her.
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#37 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 01:53 PM
 
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I would have no problem declining the invite.

Same answer if someone invited me to a circumcision for their daughter.
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#38 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 03:31 PM
 
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momma4, some people here *are* jewish & didn't cease being so because they are intactivists. do you think we don't go visit grandma because she is disappointed about no bris?

your sarcasm seems more disrespectful than any hyperbole about rabid dogs, and implicates people (whose only concern is protecting babies) of anti-semitism. it's an old tactic; we see it every so often here. doesn't work so well on actual jews, though.

suse
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#39 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 05:26 PM
 
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Suse- while you might not like that I asked to have hyperbole clarified, I have every right to ask.

You might also think I asked the question in sarcasm, but you would be incorrect. I asked as I straightforward as I could, given the comment was about about rabid dogs. There were no little emoticons in my post-- just a totally straightforward question.

You might further think I was bringing anti-semitism into this, but that would also be a wrong assumption. I plain was not. Was I concerend that people might not be sensitive in rejecting an invitation? Yes. I can't know that would offend you or others, Jewish or not. Your commentary about whether you visit grandma as a Jewish family is one I didn't ask (??) so I am not sure where that fits in with my particular question. Lots of intactivists are Jews.

Whatever your history is in dealing with people focusing on anti-semitism in the anti- circ movement has nothing to do with me or my questions regadring hyperbolic postings. Because others don't appreciate a particular question, doesn't mean it cannot be posed.
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#40 of 51 Old 03-03-2005, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma4
So I am assuming that one wouldn't tell a Jewish friend to her face "I wouldn't attend your son's bris if rabid dogs chased me there"? Because that wouldn't be respectful. At all.
It depends on the friend. I am a highly sarcastic and very emotional person. Very strong in my convictions. Some friends of mine know it is in my nature to be on the dramatic side and truely would not take offence to me saying something like that. Others however might so I guess the tactic would vary from person to person.

This forum however is a safe place for me to spout off about circumcision with all the pasion that I feel this issue deserves. If that means using a colourful description to illustrate my feelings about it then it might come out that way, depending on my level of emotion that day. I mean no disrespect to people, only disrespect for the act itself.

And to bring the question of respect into an issue that I find to be the utmost breech of respect is just hypocritical IMO.

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#41 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 02:35 AM
 
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Nope, there's no chance in hell of me going to a Bris, unless it was a Bris Shalom, where there isn't any genital cutting.


I'm so sorry for that poor baby
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#42 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 02:51 AM
 
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A friend of ours invited DH (Jewish) & me. They knew how I felt. But it was a special occassion to them and wanted us there.

I didn't go. No way in heck. They understood and were fine with it.

DH went. Fine by me.

As far as them needing "me" to be there supporting them, tish tosh... they had 10-20 people there already doing that.

If it was my best friend or sister, nope, not going. To turn it into a whiney "you aren't supporting me" thing is a manipulation.

If I were the OP, I would not attend. DH could still go alone if he wanted to. Hopefully DH's attendance (or lack of) won't affect his employment.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#43 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 02:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
I'm not going to support someone that is hurting an innocent child and cutting off part of his penis. Anyone that does this is not worthy of my support. If I am present, I am saying that what she is doing to her child is ok. IMO it is not, and I will not witness a child screaming and agonizing because of this.
Ditto this. And I am technically Jewish, but am pagan/Xtian scientist by choice.

I would never attend a bris. Ever. IMO it's cruel, and honestly I wouldn't associate with people who think it's okay to mutilate a child.

Kristi

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#44 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 03:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Momma4
So I am assuming that one wouldn't tell a Jewish friend to her face "I wouldn't attend your son's bris if rabid dogs chased me there"? Because that wouldn't be respectful. At all.
I absolutely would say this. Not necessarily the rabid dogs part, but I would make my opinion on circ totally clear. I'd probably say something along the lines of "I will not attend the genital mutilation of a child, and I'm horrified that you are doing that"


Kristi

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#45 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 04:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by callumsmom2001
Not even if I was being chased by rabid dogs could you get me anywhere near that household. There is nothing "beautiful" to me about causing babies pain or harming them in this way. IMHO cutting the genitals of a baby is just wrong, no matter how you try to justify it.
Ditto!

Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
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#46 of 51 Old 03-10-2005, 06:14 AM
 
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I would definately DECLINE the invite and I would not feel the least bit guilty in doing so. It has nothing to do with anyone's religion, it has to do with the fact that by attending I would be supporting the harm of the baby boy. I would also not drive a friend (of any religion) to the dr or go to support a parent of a baby undergoing a circ, EVER.

Desiree

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#47 of 51 Old 03-14-2005, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well just to wrap this up..we did not go to the Bris. My husband was suggesting that we go afterwards, etc. He honestly thought it happended at a church and that we could skip that part and go to the house for the "reception". He cracks me up. I had to give him a breakdown of the little info that I knew. I had finally told him I wasn't going and neither were the children. I told him that he could go if he wanted to. When his "boss" called to tell him about a future job, my husband asked if the Bris was that evening (yeah we waited to the last minute). Well, I guess we had missed it. They had originally scheduled it for that evening but had moved it. At her last OB appointment the doctor told her that her baby was too big to have vaginally so they scheduled a C-section a week before her due date. Therefore they moved the Bris date up by a week but didn't tell some friends. Very strange situation. (By the way, her baby was 7lbs.)
Thanks for all of your input. I really knew that I didn't want to go but needed a little nudge. Thanks.
Really hot topic!
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#48 of 51 Old 03-14-2005, 10:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by burke-a-bee
...At her last OB appointment the doctor told her that her baby was too big to have vaginally so they scheduled a C-section a week before her due date. ... . (By the way, her baby was 7lbs.)...
GRR> Stupid OBs. I thought everyone knew they can't accurately predict the weight. : Lucky for them they did not try that with me and my 9.5 lb naturally birthed babe.
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#49 of 51 Old 03-14-2005, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My first was 9lbs 1 oz and third was 8lbs 14oz. I was so upset when my husband said that her baby was 7lbs.
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#50 of 51 Old 03-16-2005, 08:00 AM
 
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I realize that I'm coming to this late and it's done-and-over now, but the correct, polite thing to do is simply send your regrets.
"Dear John, We will not be able to accept your invitation to the Bris. We hope to see you soon, Jack & Jill."
It is rude to ask someone why they have declined an invitation, but if really pressed one could say, "We aren't comfortable with the practice of circumcision" and leave it at that.

I don't think anyone would make outrageous 'rabid dog' comments to anyone but the closest of friends/family who already knew how they felt.
Readers should bear in mind that this is 'The Case Against Circumcision' and one could hardly expect posters to pretend to be neutral on the topic!
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#51 of 51 Old 03-16-2005, 11:34 AM
 
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ofcourse, I agree with teresa, and I think that is a very polite way to decline!!!
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