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#121 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya

Eric, I'm really glad that your wife seems to be coming around again and definitely way to go for protecting your son! You're already a great dad

love and peace.
That is very nice of you to say. Thank you.


Well,
Here is an update.
My wife and I had dinner last night with my step-brother, who is pretty much the ONLY person we know with a child that is intact. His son is 6.
Pretty much everyone on both sides of our family are saying to get it done. So are friends and acquaintances that have overheard things.
But, you all may remember that my wife kind of waffled.
I can now say that after talking with my step brother last night, that she is firmly on the intact side again.
My step-brother told her that they had had no problems with his intact son. My wife's biggest concerns had been the whole "not looking like dad or his friends" thing, and infection/dirtiness.
But, like I said, my step-brother assured her that those are total non-issues. (My step brother is about 31 or so and is circ'ed).

I've gotta say, that after talking my step-brother and his wife, I'm totally paranoid.
They said that one pediatrician forcibly retracted their son, which caused some bleeding.
I tell you, I don't know what the deal is with the midwest. I think I was meant to live on the coast or something. Jeez.
Anyway, I now know that anyone that handles our son, including the delivery room doctors and nurses, I've got to tell them ahead of time not to retract the foreskin.

An interesting story with my step-brother: he and his wife didn't know the sex of their boy before he was born. He had done the research, and he knew he didn't want it done.
But, he wasn't on the same page with his wife. They hadn't talked about it much. Apparently my step-brother was out of the room, and the nurses came to get his son to circumcise him. Mom said she was going to have to sign something, so she waited until dad got back. So, in a room FULL of family members, they discussed circumcision. Apparently the entire family was preaching to circumcise, especially the maternal grandparents. Thankfully my step-brother is an ex-marine and strong and stood his ground. Also, a friend of theirs that is a professional soccer player from Colombia was there, and he told everyone that he was intact of course and had no problems.

We're not going to talk about it much ahead of time with our families. My wife's sister and my father seem to be the most vocal people saying we need to circ. They'll get over it.
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#122 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
Great thread! Ya know... I just thought of something. Maybe all the circ'd fathers of intact sons should get together and write a book about why they are glad that they have intact sons and how they were convinced to leave their boys intact.

I mean... how many mamas here have circ'd dhs? Most, right? It's a book that could help a lot of Fathers who are on the fence about the issue. Just other dads' reasons for not mutilating their babies. It could be pretty powerful...
That's a good idea. I may mention it to a friend of mine (we both work at a major metro newspaper) and see if he may want to write the book. I know he's anti-circ.
I've been trying to get him to do a story on circ for a while...
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#123 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 12:16 PM
 
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Great news!

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#124 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 12:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericisbacchus
That's a good idea. I may mention it to a friend of mine (we both work at a major metro newspaper) and see if he may want to write the book. I know he's anti-circ.
I've been trying to get him to do a story on circ for a while...
If he's up for it, start a new thread on this topic, and we'll start rounding up people to join in. The book will practically write itself!!
There's also an anti-circ section at tribe.net with 65 members...

Glad to hear you're getting more support on the subject.

DIYer mama to DD 11/00 and DS 6/05- both intact, naturally!
...missing Mothering Magazine...
 
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#125 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 02:32 PM
 
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Eric, I'm so glad you've finally got some family members on your side (and the baby's)!

And you can cut the rest off at the pass by kind of agreeing with them. Thank them for their concern for the well-being of your little one, you will certainly be on the lookout for all the foreskin issues they have brought to your attention. Assure them that if he develops ANY problems at all with his penis you will race him to the doctor to get treated ASAP. Then change the subject.

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

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#126 of 156 Old 10-18-2005, 05:46 PM
 
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Hi Eric,
Here's some links to a film for medical students that was made by physicians at the Univ of Washington on the importance of the foreskin. It is very detailed and I learned so much from watching it.


(WMP, streaming) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, download) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv
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#127 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That was an informative medical video.

Well - my wife is on my side now. Anti-circ!

Funny addition to the story: her older sister (one of the biggest pro-circ people in our family - certainly the most vocal) told my wife to talk to their dad. He's intact.
Her sister's idea backfired on her - their father said to leave him intact.

Apparently her 15 year old brother got a semi-circ back in the day also. The story there goes that their dad and mom didn't want him to get one, but the doc talked them into a semi-circ since it would be "cleaner."

Thanks to Shanon for sending me the Penn & Teller video. I had already pretty much won my wife over to my side by the time we watched it, but it only reinforced my wife's desire to NOT have it done. One question - did that couple end up getting the circ? That couple was pretty funny - it reminded me of my situation.

Am I being paranoid to tell the doctors/nurses in the hospital to not forcibly retract his foreskin? We are in the midwest after all.
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#128 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 03:03 PM
 
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Yay yay yay!

A big kudos to your wife for coming around! And to you for sticking to your guns.

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#129 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 03:22 PM
 
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Thanks for the update, Eric!!!

What pleases me most about this entire process is how you and your wife worked through it together (granted, there were a few ups and downs). You respected her feelings enough to provide informtaion gently; she respected your feelings enough to listen to what you had to say. And you BOTH looked at it from the perspective of what's best for the baby.

You are going to be fantastic parents together!!

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

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#130 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 04:57 PM
 
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Eric, congrats on your son and your awesome (non) decision to leave him intact !!!!!!

I'll bet that any reservations your wife might still have about leaving him intact will fly out the window once your baby is born. The thought of doing anything that might harm him will seem insane and she'll wonder how anyone could ever do that to their baby. Every time you change his diaper and see his intact penis you and your wife are going to be so happy with your decision. You're going to be so proud of yourselves as parents and happy for him that he gets his whole body and is his own person. I can tell you that I haven't felt so clearly good about anything in a long, long time as I do about our (non) decision to leave our boy intact.

After we brought our son home, for like the first 2 weeks, every time my husband changed his diaper he said "Look how pefect his penis is, that's how it's supposed to look". Course, then half the time he gets angry because he was circed.... bc the drs would have circed our son..... bc our society circs in general. But most often, it's just a good feeling.

And YES you have to watch the drs and nurses like a hawk and don't let DS out of your sight for one second....period. Plus, it's good for bonding, anyway.
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#131 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 07:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by InDaPhunk
And YES you have to watch the drs and nurses like a hawk and don't let DS out of your sight for one second....period. Plus, it's good for bonding, anyway.
:

This may be too much too soon but better sooner than too late.....
If you ever take him into the ER be especially watchful. FYI, you do not have to retract for a urine sample even if a catheter is used.
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#132 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 08:05 PM
 
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Bravo to you and your wife!!!
You two will make awesome parents!
Your marriage will be stronger in the long run, too, for having faced these issues and reconciling your differences. Best of all, you'll have a happy, intact baby boy!
Everyone wins!
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#133 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ericisbacchus
Am I being paranoid to tell the doctors/nurses in the hospital to not forcibly retract his foreskin? We are in the midwest after all.
Probably a little bit. I've only heard of one case of it in a hospital being done to a neonate. Any time after that, absolutely yes, be very paranoid. Any time your son will be in any medical facility, do NOT get farther than an arms length from him and be cocked and ready to fire. Tell them in advance that your son is not to be retracted for any reason in a very firm voice while watching their reaction. If you see anything that bothers you, stop everything until you feel they are in agreement and you feel comfortable enough to go on.



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#134 of 156 Old 10-27-2005, 08:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by baybee
Hi Eric,
Here's some links to a film for medical students that was made by physicians at the Univ of Washington on the importance of the foreskin. It is very detailed and I learned so much from watching it.


(WMP, streaming) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, download) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv
Do you know if this is available in a format suitable for projecting to an audience, like for an in-service or something?

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#135 of 156 Old 10-28-2005, 11:14 PM
 
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Probably a little bit. I've only heard of one case of it in a hospital being done to a neonate. Any time after that, absolutely yes, be very paranoid.
Frank
Even though most nursing texts specifically say never to retract a neonate, it has been my experience that most nurses will leave intact newborns alone simply b/c 1. they assume they will be circ'd before they leave the hospital or 2. b/c they think that the parents will have it done later (usually due to a $ issue). I would say that you are right to be on your guard, maybe not so much while you are in the hospital after birth, but still be aware. Anytime after that watch them like a hawk and let them know that you require permission before doing anything to your baby. Decent clinicians will always ask/and or explain before proceeding.

Congratulations on making a truly informed refusal of circ!

Ashley~certified nurse-midwife mama to 6 little novaxnocirc.gifhomebirth.jpglotbirth.gif loves, including sweet Cordelia Jane born at home waterbirth.jpgon 11/12/10.
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#136 of 156 Old 10-29-2005, 03:01 AM
 
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Do you know if this is available in a format suitable for projecting to an audience, like for an in-service or something?
You could contact D.O.C. and ask them. I'm sure they would be very accomodating if they can.


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#137 of 156 Old 10-30-2005, 01:40 AM
 
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Eric,
Again congrats.

On the data disc I sent you, there is an 'Intact Care Agreement.' When our son had surgery we made the doctors sign that agreement and then they legally must abide by the rules therein, or they know that you will sue them, not only for medical malpractice but also breach of contract.

Just a quick aside! Carry on!
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#138 of 156 Old 10-31-2005, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for sending it to me, FuelJet.

Has anyone else seen the Penn & Teller program on circumcision? It was interesting to actually see that Dr. Schoen character. He's such a flake, I think he actually does his cause a disservice.
I can't help but wonder what that young couple did in the end.
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#139 of 156 Old 10-31-2005, 05:55 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure they cut their baby. I think I remember reading it on the Penn & Teller message board.

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#140 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, my son is here. He's perfect, and I love him more than anything on the planet!

Of course, he is uncircumcised.

Quick question - is it normal for me to be worrying about him a lot? I'm worried as heck when people are holding him...like I'm worried they may give him a cold or drop him or something. I'll admit I'm being paranoid - I just need some reassurance, folks.

Thanks,
Eric
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#141 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 02:28 PM
 
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It's normal, especially since this is your first baby. You get used to them after that. LOL!

Don't worry about him getting sick. If your wife is nursing, he may still get a little cold, but it's very unlikely that he'd he'd get really sick.
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#142 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 02:31 PM
 
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Congrats!!!
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#143 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 02:51 PM
 
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I'm still paranoid and my son will be 3 in April and I have another one on the way!

Congrats on your intact baby! I am sure he is perfect!

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
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#144 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's normal, especially since this is your first baby. You get used to them after that. LOL!

Don't worry about him getting sick. If your wife is nursing, he may still get a little cold, but it's very unlikely that he'd he'd get really sick.
Thank you.

Yes, my wife is nursing, but he's getting both at this point.
We always start off on the breasts, and then move on to formula when he is done.

It's a long story - but basically my wife's milk has been slow coming in. We did a test where he was weighed before and after nursing, and he got 0.6 oz
so he needs a little more. I hope my wife's milk comes in better (it's only been 10 days since he was born), but if not at least he's still getting the antibodies/benefits of some of his mothers milk. Some is better than none, the lactation consultant says.
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#145 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:12 PM
 
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Head over to the breastfeeding forums for some good advice on breastfeeding. If she's supplementing she should be pumping- a LOT and if at all possible supplementing with something other than a bottle.

-Angela
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#146 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:16 PM
 
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Congratulations on the birth of your babe Eric! I am happy to hear he is healthy, happy and whole

And yes, paranoia is perfectly normal...our babies need us to protect them and it is a natual instinct to want to. In some people the instinct is just stronger....it does tend to settle down though

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#147 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:27 PM
 
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Congratulations on the birth of your new intact son!

I second the suggestion for your dw to head to the breastfeeding forums ASAP. She's gotten some BAD advice concerning bf. Supplementing with formula will only hurt her supply. Unfortunately, the doctors are as ignorant about bf as they are about intact penises.

It's perfectly normal to worry about your newborn. That's just your parenting instincts kicking in.

Again, congratulations! Congratulations to you for sticking up for your whole baby! You rock!
Edited to correct a spelling error.
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#148 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:37 PM
 
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Head over to the breastfeeding forums for some good advice on breastfeeding. If she's supplementing she should be pumping- a LOT and if at all possible supplementing with something other than a bottle.

-Angela

:

It is the extra sucking when he runs out that is going to get your wife's milk supply up--it tells your wife's body baby needs more! Otherwise her supply will stay the same....

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
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#149 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 03:43 PM
 
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I missed this thread the first time around but had to skip to page 5 when I realized your wife must have had the baby - yea! Congrats and wonderful that he's intact.

Re: your wife supplementing with formula after bfing -- have her talk to an IBCLC -- someone who really knows their stuff. If your son was full term, he really needs to be nursing full-time and not being weighed after a feeding. Your wife won't establish a full supply that way -- she needs stimulation from him often. Even if he eats every hour, that's ok - he's only 10 days old. Both my kids were weighed pre- and post-feeding but they were in the NICU and couldn't afford to lose any weight. And, to offset their inability to adequately nurse, I pumped like crazy. Since this is your first baby, your wife has no idea that she might be setting herself up for failure with bfing by using formula now.

Good luck and congrats!
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#150 of 156 Old 03-09-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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sometimes it can seem intimidating when you are a first time parent about breastfeeding. The best advice I can give you and your wife, is to take that little bundle of joy and spend the WHOLE DAY in bed with him, nursing whenever and however often he wants. if it's every 10 mins great! You should cater to your wife's every need during this in bed session, make sure she hasPLENTY to drink and eat, and let her get up to go potty whenever she needs. spending the first few weeks in bed nursing, without a scale or clock nearby, and skipping the bottles and throwing out the formula, is the best way to ensure a successful nursing relationship.

Misty
who has been there, her first was a preemie, listening to the docs, he never would have successfully nursed, good thing I told them where they could go..he nursed for 14.5 mos!
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