Need advice--work related.....UPDATED - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 50 Old 11-03-2005, 03:23 PM
 
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Just subscribing.


Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
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#32 of 50 Old 11-03-2005, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
The trials found no adverse reactions. We can't condemn something simply because of the company that makes it. This is not for infants, it's for those who have tested positive for HPV infection that can lead to cervical cancer. Most infected women/people will develop a natural immunity to the virus. Only about 2%-3% will not. This vaccine is for those people. You can bet your life that if I tested positive for HPV, I would be getting the vaccine and if adverse reactions showed up later, it would be worth the microscopic risk that adverse reactions would show up. I would hate to know that I had knowingly passed on a pathogen to a loved one that caused a life threatening cancer and I'm not about to give up my sex life.



Frank
I have HPV, and after two years finally had a good pap...I'm all over the vaccine if it seems it would be effective for me. Informed consent & all that...
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#33 of 50 Old 11-04-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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I have the high risk type HPV and have had mild dysplasia, a couple of colposcopies and biopsies, and then a normal pap after the birth of my son. I am also very interested in the vaccine, and may request it when it starts being offered.

Jen
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#34 of 50 Old 11-04-2005, 12:13 AM
 
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I was asked last year to give a Parenting workshop to the Grade 12's at my old high school (I graduated in 1998, so I actually knew the grade 12's, as they were in grade 7 when I was a senior)

I didn't know what they would want to talk about. The class was split up into 3 groups of about 12 kids and I had one group at a time. The first group I did something prepared, which was booooooring, but managed to make sure I quickly mentioned how important it was to try to BF and to say no to circumcision. The second & third groups I decided to do something different and simply asked them what questions they had for me.


Guess what?


Their main topics of interest were:

1) Labor & Delivery (espcially since I had a NCB)

2) BFing

3) Circumcision


In the third group, we went over time because they wanted to know all the sexual functions of the foreskin!!!

In each group, there was a teacher sitting in, and when we got to the sex-related talk, I looked over at that particular teacher and asked "How much can I talk about here?" and he said "Go for it!" LOL - my old History teacher, who has known me since I was born!

I handed out printouts to anyone who was interested of the Circumstitions "It's a Boy!" page. They ALL took one, every kid in the class!

4 girls from the third group stayed after the workshop to ask me more questions about male circumcision and female circumcision and said they thought they would do a Humanities project on them and discuss the Hhuman rights aspect of it. WOW - I was already walking on air, and they just blew me away with this!


I gave them all the info I had on me about RIC.


After the Workshops were done, the organizer (my old English teacher) came up to me, and said she wanted to book me for next year because all the students were raving about my workshop and how cool it was to get to ask me what they really wanted to know!


Of course, I accepted!



I only had one young guy bring up the usual myths about circumcision, and I gently explained that recent medical studies have disproven those old beliefs and so now we can protect our future children from circumcision. He finally admitted that he was circumcised and his mother had told him all those things to convince him it was better. I tried to be encouraging and explain that at the time, his mom was probably told those by her doctor or family so she just didn't have all of the info.



Good luck with your unexpected activism!




-Kira
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#35 of 50 Old 11-07-2005, 06:03 PM
 
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hi! as paquerette mentioned, i teach anatomy and physiology to (mostly) juniors. out of about 160 kids, i convert ALOT most think they WILL breastfeed and WILL NOT circ. by the time i get through with them! anyway, i think it's great that we have the rare opportunity to reach many kids before they become parents. i hope it comes up again in your classroom, so you can at least answer any questions they may have. instead of one-on-one discussions, i like having class discussions on these topics, b/c then, whether they want to or not, they must sit and hear all info. (i work in a very mainstream school district where many boys would never willingly sit through many of my topics, if it wasn't part of the class discussion- although they always end up being very interested!). i agree to first say that their parents thought they were doing what was best for them. but i give them the whole truth. circumcision is gruesome... no way around that.
good luck!

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#36 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Today's my big day! Wish me luck.
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#37 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 12:34 PM
 
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Best wishes! I'm sure you'll do great

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#38 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 04:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
We can't condemn something simply because of the company that makes it.
You say tomayto, I say tomahto. I don't trust a company with a strong past history of releasing dangerous products and lying about the risks, and only recalling them when it becomes more costly to settle the lawsuits or when they're forced to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
This is not for infants, it's for those who have tested positive for HPV infection that can lead to cervical cancer.
I think it's reasonable to take the chance in that circumstance, especially since one would be an adult, or at least probably a teen, and able to make an informed choice. But I have heard that they're advocating this for all preteens, which I think is total crap.
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#39 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 04:15 PM
 
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Good luck to you!

Let us know how things go, I know I am very curious (or nosey....whatever )

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#40 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette
You say tomayto, I say tomahto. I don't trust a company with a strong past history of releasing dangerous products and lying about the risks, and only recalling them when it becomes more costly to settle the lawsuits or when they're forced to.
I basically agree with you but HPV is pervasive. You have to decide whether the risk of trusting Merk or the risk of cervical cancer is more important. If you test positive for active HPV, your chances of cervical cancer is very high.

What kind of car do you drive? Every automobile manufacturer has had some dangerous defect in their product. At first they dismiss it, then they deny it, then they are sued about it and finally, they admit it and make the repairs to make their product safe. If you will buy their cars, what's the difference?


Quote:
I think it's reasonable to take the chance in that circumstance, especially since one would be an adult, or at least probably a teen, and able to make an informed choice. But I have heard that they're advocating this for all preteens, which I think is total crap.
I also think that is going overboard. Since Gardisil will stop existing HPV infections dead in their tracks it should not be used as a prophylaxis. But, I think that every expectant mother should be tested for the presence of HPV because the mother can pass the infection on to the child as it is passing through the birth canal. Apparently, this is very common. If the mother tests positive for the virus, she can make the decision of whether she wants to be vaccinated and if she elects not to, the child should be tested at around 5 years old to determine if it was infected. 97% - 98% of infected people will develop a natural immunity to HPV in about 3 years. If I were female, I would probably get the vaccination but if not, I would want to be tested every 4 or 5 years for HPV infection. HPV is not necessarily a STD. It can be transmitted as easily as shaking hands with an infected person



Frank
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#41 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well........I did it!

I made a handout with facts from www.nocirc.org

I talked to three classes. I got a lot of questions, such as:

"My dad had to be circumcised as an older child. What do you think of that?"

"I don't remember my circumcision" (from a boy, obviously), "and I'm not mad at my parents about it. So why not do it when the baby won't remember it?"

"Isn't it cleaner to circumcise?"

"Why wouldn't you circumcise?"

"Aren't you afraid that your son will get teased?"



Anyway, if I changed the mind of even one future parent, it was well worth it. Thanks for the support!
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#42 of 50 Old 11-09-2005, 09:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
I basically agree with you but HPV is pervasive. You have to decide whether the risk of trusting Merk or the risk of cervical cancer is more important. If you test positive for active HPV, your chances of cervical cancer is very high.

Since Gardisil will stop existing HPV infections dead in their tracks it should not be used as a prophylaxis. But, I think that every expectant mother should be tested for the presence of HPV because the mother can pass the infection on to the child as it is passing through the birth canal. Apparently, this is very common. If the mother tests positive for the virus, she can make the decision of whether she wants to be vaccinated and if she elects not to, the child should be tested at around 5 years old to determine if it was infected. 97% - 98% of infected people will develop a natural immunity to HPV in about 3 years. If I were female, I would probably get the vaccination but if not, I would want to be tested every 4 or 5 years for HPV infection. HPV is not necessarily a STD. It can be transmitted as easily as shaking hands with an infected person



Frank
Frank, it's not true that if you test positive for HPV your chances of cervical cancer are very high. There are many strains of HPV and only a couple are associated with an increased risk of cervical cancer. You can test positive (or develop a wart) from one of the strains of HPV not associated with an increased risk.

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#43 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 02:18 AM
 
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As I understand from what I have read, there are two that are implicated in cervical cancer. I think they are 16 and 18. The one for genital herpes is 37, I believe. (going totally from memory here!) There are only about 4 or 5 that are related to cancers or other deleterious effects and the others are benign. I don't know if the test is strain specific or not but the vaccine is strain specific to those infections that cause cervical cancer. If you consider the 2% - 3% of women who don't develop immunity and compare that number to the number of women who develop cervical cancer or pre-cancerous conditions, there is a very significant risk.

I've seen that this test and the vaccine could virtually eliminate cervical cancer. That may be from Merk's press releases but from the considerable study I did on cervical cancer after the article on circumcision and cervical cancer published April 17, 2002 in The New England Journal of Medicine, I can see that that would be true if the test is accurate and if the vaccine is 100% effective as reported.

Even if the test is not strain specific, if I were a woman, I would be lining up for the vaccine if I tested positive. No question about it! Heck, if a lover tested positive, I'd probably get the vaccine.




Frank
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#44 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 05:12 AM
 
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no2circ,
how did they take your answers?
i want to hear more about it! please share.
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#45 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 05:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +stella+
no2circ,
how did they take your answers?
i want to hear more about it! please share.
: Please do

Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#46 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +stella+
no2circ,
how did they take your answers?

Well, honestly, what I saw a lot of was SHOCK that anyone was telling them NOT to circumcise. So much shock, as a matter of fact, that I had to say, "I realize that this is a huge paradigm shift--a huge change in perception--from the culture and society in which you and I both grew up in. I'm just asking you to keep an open mind, do the research for yourself, and don't automatically think that you have to circumcise."

I'm not sure how the child development teacher liked my presentation--I just got a very brief "thank you" from her, but maybe I planted some seeds.
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#47 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 10:38 PM
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I think you did a great job!

I learned about circ when I was in high school and was instantly shocked when I found out that it was done regularly. Before then, I never imagined that the penises I had seen had had SURGERY done on them. I just thought they came like that. Even today, the only intact penis I've seen IRL is my son's.

When I first found out about circ, I researched it online. Luckily, I found plenty of resources against it, which helped me get past the "it's cleaner and healthier" crap that I'd heard from my mom. I even came across a webpage of a guy who restored (complete with pics and a journal). This helped me realize that some guys don't want to be circ'ed and go to extreme lengths to fix what had been done to them.

I never thought circ'ing was OK, but it would have really helped if I had a positive role model in my life (like you, a teacher) to say that it is in fact BETTER to not circ.

I think you probably got through to lots of those kids.
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#48 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 11:18 PM
 
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I'm so glad you had the opportunity to present this info to future parents! If one boy is left intact because of the seeds you planted then you have done an amazing thing! I have a feeling the seeds you planted will sprout when they are in the situation to decide for their sons and think "hey I remember my teacher saying it isn't necessary- I think I'll look that up."

and just think- all this sparked by a bumpersticker! this makes me

Jen read.gif Mama of 2 precious boys blowkiss.gif (9)  flowersforyou.gif (6)  and still in heartbeat.gif with my Matt hat.gif after 12 years together. 

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#49 of 50 Old 11-10-2005, 11:56 PM
 
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I just want to say that this thread has me grinning. How great that some of you have the opportunity to speak about this in an educational setting! It really can make a difference. Not related to circ'ing, but it was my grade 6 teacher that first planted the seeds of breastfeeding to me, a formula fed baby in a predominatly formula feeding family, when she said "Why the heck would you want to bother with the fuss of bottles when you have *these* two, prewarmed, pre-prepared bottles at your disposal?" I wish I could track her down and thank her for that. I didn't even know BF'ing was an option for me (as the women in my family "couldn't" breastfeed), until she briefly discussed it at the end of question time in health class.

I'm sure you've changed the lives of many future baby boys. The words of a teacher can make a huge difference.
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#50 of 50 Old 11-11-2005, 03:01 AM
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The words of a teacher can make a huge difference.
How true. Honestly the fear of foreskin was driven into me by a health teacher, and had I heard what you said, it would have all been undone.

I have a kind English man to thank for planting the seeds in me.

Long distance Mom to boarding school superstars E (9) and Layne (6).
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