I just don't get this - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 48 Old 02-20-2006, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
coco4cloth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 932
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I visit some other boards. All ap/natural boards. It amazes me how many post I have read where the mom talks about refusing all shots, eye drops and such at birth and has this detailed drawn out birth plan and then says they are still undecided about circumcising
coco4cloth is offline  
#2 of 48 Old 02-20-2006, 12:30 PM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Common sense is very uncommon.


Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#3 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 08:29 AM
Fi.
 
Fi.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nashville TN/Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Even better is there's a person on LJ who posted a birthplan in a natural birth community, said she wanted to circ, wants to refuse the vit k shot and go for oral (yeah right, they'll really go for that) and in her interests?

Child advocacy.

Long distance Mom to boarding school superstars E (9) and Layne (6).
Fi. is offline  
#4 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:11 AM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 12,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi.
Even better is there's a person on LJ who posted a birthplan in a natural birth community, said she wanted to circ, wants to refuse the vit k shot and go for oral (yeah right, they'll really go for that) and in her interests?

Child advocacy.
Either she has a twin or she has posted here too on the birthing forums about how refusing the PKU test is the way to go because the heel stick is SO traumatic. Yeah, and cutting off half your son's penis ISN'T?

To the OP: there's a quotation from Margaret Mead to the effect of "If a fish were an anthropologist, the last thing it would discover would be water." Circ is like that - it is so deeply ingrained in our culture and has so many myths surrounding it that it just doesn't even occur to people planning a gentle birth that circ is the antithesis of a gentle birth and IMO negates it entirely.

I mean, geez Louise, if you're going to circ, better to have an epidural and then maybe that poor baby will at least get the benefit of some residual drugs in his system to numb the pain of genital torture.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#5 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 11:48 AM
 
paquerette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Poconos
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky
Either she has a twin or she has posted here too on the birthing forums about how refusing the PKU test is the way to go because the heel stick is SO traumatic. Yeah, and cutting off half your son's penis ISN'T?
Here on MDC? Aren't they still cracking down on that?
paquerette is offline  
#6 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 12:20 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette
Here on MDC? Aren't they still cracking down on that?
If she's religious, they won't

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#7 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 12:33 PM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 12,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette
Here on MDC? Aren't they still cracking down on that?
Although you're not allowed to post in support of circ in this particular forum, I don't know of any rule that says you can't state your support of circ or fact that you're going to circ at MDC.

In fact, I wouldn't want to crack down on that kind of thinking because we want to be able to inform mamas who come here because they're attracted to various issues under the gentle birth/parenting umbrella but don't necessarily know much about circ yet, KWIM?

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#8 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 12:42 PM
Fi.
 
Fi.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nashville TN/Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
If she's religious, they won't
She's having a hospital circ so I would be willing to bet she's not.

Long distance Mom to boarding school superstars E (9) and Layne (6).
Fi. is offline  
#9 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 12:46 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi.
She's having a hospital circ so I would be willing to bet she's not.
Yes, but "Christians" that don't know or don't care any different usually do that.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#10 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 02:18 PM
 
autumn_faune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:
That was me a while back...

Of course, I associated with a lot of birth activist types, I was aware of vax issues, cord cutting etc...

I admit, it's not me anymore- my sons will be intact.

but 2 weeks before Grace was born, I was introduced to the idea that circ might be something that had to be decided on... ?huh? I thought it was just a done thing? I also didn't know anything about it.

So for her birth, having not had a lot of time to read and make any decision on it, I was decided on the birth issues and vax issues-- but undecided on circ, and crossing my fingers that she would be a girl so I could decide without being under the gun.
she was.
autumn_faune is offline  
#11 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 02:44 PM
 
calngavinsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada....EH!?!
Posts: 2,079
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Check out any of the "How Crunchy Are You?" threads.....You will see multiple posts of "We circed and would do it again!" Even MDCers are not immune to cultural bias.....although witht he tone of this community, you would think they would be


Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
calngavinsmom is offline  
#12 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 03:37 PM
 
paquerette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Poconos
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Huh, I thought it was a rule for the whole board (not advocating non-religious circ). I could just go read the UA, of course, but I'm too lazy for that.

Quote:
In fact, I wouldn't want to crack down on that kind of thinking because we want to be able to inform mamas who come here because they're attracted to various issues under the gentle birth/parenting umbrella but don't necessarily know much about circ yet, KWIM?
I kinda get that, but then that leaves our hands tied about advocating to these folks, doesn't it? If someone can gently say "we don't allow pro-circ talk here, please do some research" and offer links then maybe that helps show the wrongness of it, having the force of law (of the board, anyway) behind it. But we can't really go around saying 'hey, I think you should look into this more, why do you want to circ your kid', then we're harassing them and get stern PMs.
paquerette is offline  
#13 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 05:43 PM
 
sadkitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Shouldn't Anti-RIC information be in the sticky at the top of every forum? Some mamas don't venture out of their "due date clubs" etc... and might not know about this forum until its too late We need to get intactivist on "our own" too I guess.

Mom to three 14 y.o. rock star grrl, 5 y.o. knight in spazzy armour and baby Juniper, born still @39 weeks 4 days 2-3-10 .
sadkitty is offline  
#14 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 06:22 PM
 
pdx.mothernurture's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadkitty
Shouldn't Anti-RIC information be in the sticky at the top of every forum? Some mamas don't venture out of their "due date clubs" etc... and might not know about this forum until its too late We need to get intactivist on "our own" too I guess.
Now *there's* a fabulous idea!

Jen
pdx.mothernurture is offline  
#15 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 06:25 PM
 
zeldamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you think some mothers circ because they're uncomfortable with the topic of penises and don't really want to think about it? I've always been surprised at the number of intelligent women who can barely bring themselves to say the word, and I imagine they'd be horribly embarassed to read about circ. Then since they aren't educated, they just make their son "match" their dh. For these women, maybe a slogan like "don't circ-- no cosmetic surgery on newborns" would work better?

Just a thought.

ZM
zeldamomma is offline  
#16 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 08:05 PM
 
LadyMarmalade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: anywhere but Stepford
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette
If someone can gently say "we don't allow pro-circ talk here, please do some research" and offer links then maybe that helps show the wrongness of it, having the force of law (of the board, anyway) behind it.
I totally agree, and I really like the idea of having anti-circ stickies in each forum. I wish the whole board, rather than just this forum, didn't allow advocacy of circumcision. But the minute the anti-cutting rules are spread to the whole board a lot of the Jewish and Muslim mamas will be furious. I'm actually really saddened by the prolific number of pro-circ comments I see at this board.
LadyMarmalade is offline  
#17 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 09:16 PM
 
DahliaRW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near the beautiful Cascades!
Posts: 6,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I wonder if we could all chip in together and buy a banner ad so that more people would see it. Just a thought.

Happily married to my dh, mama to ds1 (01/2005), ds2 (07/2007)  and dd (07/2009).
DahliaRW is offline  
#18 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 09:32 PM
 
njeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This thread is eye-opening to me. I thought that we weren't allowed to endorse circumcision anywhere on MDC, not just this forum.

To the OP: I, too, have always been baffled by people who practice natural birth, extended bf, cloth diaper, etc., but then turn around and circ. their sons! Don't they realize that they have just violated their sons' bodies in the most private and personal way possible?!? And WITHOUT anesthetic! :

If anyone decides to get circ'ed, it should be the owner of the penis. I have no trouble with grown men who decide to have it done. If you circ. that male as a baby, however, you are robbing him of the choice. His penis, his decision.
njeb is offline  
#19 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 09:33 PM
 
LadyMarmalade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: anywhere but Stepford
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re chipping in and paying for a banner - I'd be part of that! But, on the other hand, it's a bit sad that we have to pay to get our message out on a forum which claims to be against circumcision.

I guess my hope is that any advocacy of circumcision will be unacceptable on the board. As it stands, lots of people state that they'll circ, they ask for advice about where to find a good mohel etc. So even though the board is officially against circumcision my hope is that it will become intactivist. I know people IRL who are against circumcision but they're not intactivists - they don't fight against it, educating and dispelling myths. I find apathy frustrating, so I've been venting about it to DH a bit. There's such a huge difference between being anti-circ and being an intactivist, and I hope MDC as a whole is able to make the jump.
LadyMarmalade is offline  
#20 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 09:45 PM
 
imgr8ful's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: sunny az
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the sticky at the top of the ddcs is a great idea!

stop routine infant circumcision and then inside a link to this forum and a link to the regret thread...

and some of the other great links but not too much info or links in the sticky, don't want to overwhelm (i get overwhelmed in the vax forum )

imgr8ful is offline  
#21 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 09:56 PM
 
TigerTail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I'm finally here!
Posts: 9,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloli
I totally agree, and I really like the idea of having anti-circ stickies in each forum. I wish the whole board, rather than just this forum, didn't allow advocacy of circumcision. But the minute the anti-cutting rules are spread to the whole board a lot of the Jewish and Muslim mamas will be furious. I'm actually really saddened by the prolific number of pro-circ comments I see at this board.
but skip the religious circ issue, and focus on ric. the religious mamas have no problem with doing that. i too am troubled here by the posts i see 'well, i circ'ed just for the pure power trip of cutting off part of my child's penis & i'm glad i did' posts (note: this is a purely theoretical example and not meant to parody any poster here!) i wish those into the cornfield with the 'i don't beat my child with anything but my hand' & 'i advocate ff because bfing is just gross' posts.

vax is a nfl & health issue, not an ap issue. so we have (we just got gently reprimanded- that's public enough, i can say that, it's not discussing, right?) got to be nice to everyone pro & anti & inbetween (fwiw i have no problems with that, even if i have gotten tetchier than i ought in the past with people i felt to have an agenda beyond honest discourse. it's not my call & i have apologized. ANYway...) i see a difference between that, & this.

is it possible we could make some headway here, since i have a hard time imagining advocating ric IN ANY WAY passing muster as acceptable AP practice? (gosh, i am trying not to break any UA rulez here; is asking if anyone thinks if we could get somewhere with this acceptable? esp since i am kind of- hint hint- asking puppy & cm what they think?) a petition thread? what would be the correct course of action? (i'd pm, but who? every person that frequents the forums plus cynthia & puppy & msmom? i really am trying to be compliant, edit away or ask me to if anything here crossed the line.)

i cannot see ric as a gray area, like 'cio' (where some people are saying if you set the screaming colicky baby down for two minutes to go to the bathroom because you are about to have a nervous breakdown you let the baby 'cio', & others- more sane others- reserve the term 'cio' for people whose plan of action is to purposely leave a baby to cry to 'teach' him/her something)- i see it as more like striking a child.

no one here (in my memory) has told a regretful parent who spanked their child who ran into the street, regrets it, & wants to learn better coping skills that they were terrible people. but even outside of 'gd' if you say, 'hey, i did it, my parents did it, & i don't see anything wrong with it!' you will get soundly thrashed, with board support. uh, metaphorically. i would like to see ric treated the same way.
TigerTail is offline  
#22 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:09 PM
 
goodcents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by calngavinsmom
Check out any of the "How Crunchy Are You?" threads.....You will see multiple posts of "We circed and would do it again!" Even MDCers are not immune to cultural bias.....although witht he tone of this community, you would think they would be


Tara

We circed and I would never do it again.

Its a hard guilt to live with, which is why I don't visit this forum much.



But, so that the frequent posters in this forum are better educated in educating others, please be mindful of how difficult it is for some mothers (and fathers) to surmount cultural issues. It can be even harder to surmount religious issues, as was in our case. Nto everyone is "strong". Not everyone is "eloquent" or equipped to "challenge the belief system."

I understand being so passionately anti circ, but there is an overtone here that scares people away. For myself, maybe I could have vocalized my concerns more, gathered more information, and presented it to my husband in a fashion that would have changed the outcome of our decision to circ.

But I felt so afraid of this forum, that I couldn't vocalize what I was facing. Begrudingly I headed to the relgious forum, where some of my questions were answered, but not all. In the end, I am not even sure if our circ was religiously neccessary (we are Muslim, and while Muslims default to Jewish law in this regard, I wasn't convinced it was a religious obligation for us. For Jewish people it is clear.....but that's another story).

So that said, maybe you can help more people later if there was a little bit of gentleness. Also, I am compelled to mention that coming from Western countries, especially the intergrated areas of the States, you grow up with freedom of religion, and the access to many cultures. Both of these caveats lend themselves to being comfortable with thinking outside of cultural or relgious norms. This is not so in many places around the world, including the country my husband is from.


Unsubscribing now since I don't want to fight with anyone.
goodcents is offline  
#23 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:12 PM
 
goodcents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just want to add - right in this very thread there is bashing of religious mothers. I don't think that is the answer.

I think the answer is finding alternative interpretations of religious law and offering it to religious mothers as an alternative. This is a good example
goodcents is offline  
#24 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:23 PM
 
njeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodcents
I just want to add - right in this very thread there is bashing of religious mothers. I don't think that is the answer.

I think the answer is finding alternative interpretations of religious law and offering it to religious mothers as an alternative.
I agree with this. Here is a website you might find interesting: www.jewsagainstcircumcision.com.
I also agree with TigerTail that we should concentrate on RIC and leave religious circ. out of it. We are already not allowed to discuss religious circ. on this board; we can extend the ban to the rest of MDC, except for religious studies.
njeb is offline  
#25 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:40 PM
 
TigerTail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I'm finally here!
Posts: 9,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodcents
I just want to add - right in this very thread there is bashing of religious mothers. I don't think that is the answer.

I think the answer is finding alternative interpretations of religious law and offering it to religious mothers as an alternative. This is a good example
it's bashing to acknowledge that some of my good friends here who circ for religious reasons (with whom i agree to disagree with on this one issue) would be wicked pissed off at a ban that included religious circ, which could be argued is not within the purview of mothering?

i agree that publicizing non-cutting alternative ceremonies is beneficial for those who are unaware of them; however, i don't think that the majority of mothers in this community doing it for legitimized-through centuries-of-tradition religious reasons (as opposed to illiterate & inaccurate wishful thinking about religions that not only do not specify circumcision, but prohibit it) are going to thank you for 'offering' them an alternative that they have already rejected (the religious mamas here include some way-smart cookies, & are not going to have a light bulb go off over their heads moment seeing the links.)
TigerTail is offline  
#26 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:43 PM
 
calngavinsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada....EH!?!
Posts: 2,079
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodcents
We circed and I would never do it again.

Its a hard guilt to live with, which is why I don't visit this forum much.



But, so that the frequent posters in this forum are better educated in educating others, please be mindful of how difficult it is for some mothers (and fathers) to surmount cultural issues. It can be even harder to surmount religious issues, as was in our case. Nto everyone is "strong". Not everyone is "eloquent" or equipped to "challenge the belief system."

I understand being so passionately anti circ, but there is an overtone here that scares people away. For myself, maybe I could have vocalized my concerns more, gathered more information, and presented it to my husband in a fashion that would have changed the outcome of our decision to circ.

But I felt so afraid of this forum, that I couldn't vocalize what I was facing. Begrudingly I headed to the relgious forum, where some of my questions were answered, but not all. In the end, I am not even sure if our circ was religiously neccessary (we are Muslim, and while Muslims default to Jewish law in this regard, I wasn't convinced it was a religious obligation for us. For Jewish people it is clear.....but that's another story).

So that said, maybe you can help more people later if there was a little bit of gentleness. Also, I am compelled to mention that coming from Western countries, especially the intergrated areas of the States, you grow up with freedom of religion, and the access to many cultures. Both of these caveats lend themselves to being comfortable with thinking outside of cultural or relgious norms. This is not so in many places around the world, including the country my husband is from.


Unsubscribing now since I don't want to fight with anyone.
This is why I cited the parents who said "I circed and would do it again!" and not "I circed and regret it." or even "I circed and am conflicted and want to learn more about it." Totally different situations. I have no idea why you took my post as not being "gentle", I certainly did not mean it that way, nor do I think it came across that way.

And as far as this forum being frightening....for anyone with an open mind, it should not be. Heck, there are even parents with kids with circumcision complications that come here for help....and they get it. No lectures, no "told ya so's" just a helping hand.

In my experience, this forum is just about as mild as you can get on the topic of circumcision....based on the "others" that I have seen on the net anyway(You know who you are )

I hope you are able to overcome your sensitivities on the topic enough so that you are able to feel comfortable here. There is no better advocate than someone who has BTDT.


Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
calngavinsmom is offline  
#27 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:49 PM
 
pdx.mothernurture's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All I'm going to say is that FGM is illegal no matter what the reason, and it is practiced for nearly identical reasons as male infant circumcision is here...and I believe all human beings are create equal and male and female children have an equal right to genital integrity regardless of the reasons used to justify the cutting.

Jen
pdx.mothernurture is offline  
#28 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 10:57 PM
 
TigerTail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I'm finally here!
Posts: 9,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i would rather have a ban on ric promotion & leave ritual circ out of it, than leave posters free to express satisfaction with ric and (still) continue to leave ritual circ of of it. like it or lump it, those are our (possible) choices, & we don't even know how possible. i'm trying to be realistic.
TigerTail is offline  
#29 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 11:17 PM
 
goodcents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail
it's bashing to acknowledge that some of my good friends here who circ for religious reasons (with whom i agree to disagree with on this one issue) would be wicked pissed off at a ban that included religious circ, which could be argued is not within the purview of mothering?

i agree that publicizing non-cutting alternative ceremonies is beneficial for those who are unaware of them; however, i don't think that the majority of mothers in this community doing it for legitimized-through centuries-of-tradition religious reasons (as opposed to illiterate & inaccurate wishful thinking about religions that not only do not specify circumcision, but prohibit it) are going to thank you for 'offering' them an alternative that they have already rejected (the religious mamas here include some way-smart cookies, & are not going to have a light bulb go off over their heads moment seeing the links.)

It is precisely this condescending overtone that chase mothers away from this forum. You (general you) can feel passionate without being rude. And I see alot of that here.

And you *general you* may not choose to see it that way, but I and a few other mothers here do. So if you fail to consider my viewpoint, you miss an opportunity to teach people about alternatives to RIC. Which is the point of this forum no?

I concur that there are many orthodox Jewish & Muslim women here that wouldn't consider various religious viewpoints, but there are other not-so-observant-questioning-women too. So could it hurt to have as part of your sticky "If you are considering relgious circ check out these alternative sites."? Probably not. And hell - who knows - you may even save a foreskin in the process



Calngavinsmom I didn't think your OP was not gentle. I quoted it because of your reference to cultural bias. I can take quite a bit of discussion board heat (check out my posts in w&p) so senstivity is not really my issue.

As far as this forum goes it is a "case against circ", so right away the title of it shuts down a certain amount of dialogue. I *understand* the name is what it is because this is an anti-circ board. I *understand* no religious debate is allowed. But the unintended consequences of that, I feel, mean opportunities to share alternative information are missed.
goodcents is offline  
#30 of 48 Old 02-21-2006, 11:44 PM
 
TigerTail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I'm finally here!
Posts: 9,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
how was i condescending or rude? if anything, suggesting that we go to mamas who have been part of this site for the past six years and 'offer' them info as if they have never heard it in their lives is condescending. of course the links and info should be presented here for those who haven't seen them, it is part of our job as intactivists.

it is the suggestion that we 'offer' it to the majority of long-time posting religious mamas here as though they'd never they had never stumbled upon this forum before that i find condescending, personally. mere semantics- offer away. hey chava, amy, gonna take us up on it? had an epiphany? (you know i'm jk, right? although i can always hope. probably with as much luck as grandma waiting for our bris. brises? brisses? i know there's a hebrew plural out there somewhere. )

now i know i am skating on thin ice joking around in the circ forum, lol.
TigerTail is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off