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#1 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I feel like I am failing sometimes. I have lost two clients to the circ thing and I am so torn. I need the money so bad, but I can't allow myself to be around that type of baby abuse. So much of the time, I get people to read the information and talk with them and they change their minds. But the ones who don't...
I let my guard down and forgot to ask about it right away and we went through the whole prenatal and then I said something of the cuff about circ and they said "we are circumcising" And I was like "Oh."

I gave them so much information and they didn't even listen. How can I support a wonderful natural birth (because YOU KNOW!!! drugs affect baby and that is the whole friggin point about staying away from them. you don't want to hurt your baby!!!) then go and mutilate him. They did that to the first born and then told me they did it because of "social reasons" and they know that may seem shallow!!!! OMFG!!!! I am so friggin angry and ticked off and I am so sad. I am so so so so sad.

I need you to tell me that I am not wrong in my quest. I don' know what else to call it. I need to get a video to show people. Anyone have something cheap? And good to show. And words of wisdom. I know that I have to stand by my values, somedays are harder then others. ~sob~

wife - mother - midwife

CIRCUMCISION

The more you know, the worse it gets.

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#2 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 09:13 PM
 
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All I can say is I believe you are doing what is right! I have told my mom and my sister and my dh about how there is a doula on line that stand up for baby boys!! YAY!!!!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#3 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 09:29 PM
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nocirc (www.nocirc.org) has a video of a circ for $20.
If you can't afford that, I will buy it for you. Really. Just let me know.

Then I would have them watch the video as part of the homework after your first "visit" with new clients.
I'd also have them read "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision" as homework from that first visit, as well. (I'll buy that for you too. You could get the video and book back each time, so you'd only need one copy of the book and video, right?)
Then you could have homework "questions" from the book and video. From those questions you could deduce what they had decided and you could then decide whether or not to proceed with them as clients.

Just a thought! You're doing great!
PM me if you want to take me up on my offer.
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#4 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 09:33 PM
 
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Mamajulie, I love you

What an awesome offer
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#5 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 10:51 PM
 
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If my parents never did anything else right, they did instill a strong sense of ethics in me. It has served me well in both business and my personal life. I'm not saying that it wasn't tempting to take the quick profit at the customer's expense or to lead a woman on to get what I wanted. It was but I always resisted. I ended up with very loyal friends, customers and lovers. They always knew they could trust me to do the right thing. The payoff? Well, for one, I retired 17 years early and I have tons of friends, some that I have known 35 years. And I can walk around proud of the fact that I don't have any skeletons in my closet waiting to jump out and get me.

Standing your ground for your ethics will pay dividends in the future, just like an investment.



Frank
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#6 of 20 Old 03-14-2003, 11:46 PM
 
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That's exactly right Frank.

The pay off will be down the line, Sarah.

Besides I know you could not possibly compromise your integrity on this matter for the sake of some extra clients.

I'm glad they are having the chance of meeting with you, and perhaps with some other child in their future, when you are not aware, your words/information may impact them.

The "problem" might be that some folks don't know anyone who has not circ'ed and they are wary of keeping their boys intact because of the perceived implications of this especially if the father is circ'ed.

Maybe for now you could hand out one of the pamphlets from www.nocirc.org send it home with them and have a discussion at the following meeting. Ask them to write down any points of interest. It takes time to digest this new-to-them idea when they might not even know of anyone who is intact. The following pamphlets may come in handy for the introduction to the concept of not circ'ing :

Answers To Your Questions About Infant Circumcision
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pam3.html

Baby steps for them. And hugs for you.
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#7 of 20 Old 03-15-2003, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for responding. Sometimes we all need to lean on each other. I know that I would never truly compromise myself for money, it is just when you are living paycheck to paycheck and even more behind then that sometimes, with a one year old and a two year old...but then I let it go and I always feel better. They called me today to tell me that they hired another doula, (of course!) and they really admired my principals and that they found that refreshing. I wanted to say that is great! so don't cut your kid!!! but hey...it could be a girl. PLEASE BE A GIRL!!!!

Thank you all so much for believing that what I am doing is the right thing to do.

wife - mother - midwife

CIRCUMCISION

The more you know, the worse it gets.

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#8 of 20 Old 03-16-2003, 03:23 PM
 
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Sarah, I think you are doing the right thing. I applaud you for it. I hired a doula and asked her about circ. I really did not want to, DH did. She handed me an info sheet that was pretty worthless (no real info!) The other 2 people I asked (prenatal yoga instructor/Bradley teacher & a ped who performed them) were useless because they were pro-circ.

I would have WISHED to have met someone like you when I was pregnant. Oh well.

So keep up the good work.

Sadly (very regretably) there are parents who won't listen to reason, and do whatever they want, regardless. You can't change that. Don't beat yourself up over it. Move on and do the best you can... because you ARE doing are great thing.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#9 of 20 Old 03-16-2003, 06:26 PM
 
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Precisely, Tanya. I'm sure Sarah is providing useful information to those parents who are uninformed (like I was) or sitting on the fence over this issue.

And to Sarah. I think most of us here saw you were having a moment of weakness and needed a hug. Financial problems can have a major impact on our stress levels if we allow them to get in the way. Is there any other way of perhaps cutting back or budgetting yourselves more efficiently? Visit some of the other boards to learn of cutting costs around the home. Vinegar and baking soda make excellent household cleansers and are basically cost effective. (I know this sounds presumptious but it's simply meant to be an example.) Kudos to you for being so loving and caring.

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#10 of 20 Old 04-19-2003, 03:43 PM
 
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Sarah, you're awesome!!! Could you imagine how great it would be if doctors could go without their $200/circ to help little boys? How many people have you conviced not to have it done? How many have you already helped?

Sometimes we can only plant the seeds, we don't get to see the fruit they produce.

~Melissa
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#11 of 20 Old 04-21-2003, 12:14 AM
 
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Precisely, Melissa.
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#12 of 20 Old 04-25-2003, 12:43 PM
 
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That just takes the cake, doesn't it!!?? These moms that are so gung ho about having a natural/non intervention birth- they seem so concerned for the well being of their child. And then they decide to hack off the poor defenceless child's penis to make it look NICER!!???

Welcome to the world, we love you soo much- CHOP!

I will never understand!



Stick to your guns sweetie! It's their problem not yours! I hope some more truly concerned parents to be come your way!
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#13 of 20 Old 04-29-2003, 03:52 PM
 
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Sarah,

I just want to encourage you to continue to tell your clients about the evils of circ.

My first MW with DD (she took a leave when I was 28weeks long story) had brought up circ with us at our first visit. I hadn't ever really thought about it to be honest, I just assumed it would be something that we would do. Especially since DH is, but even though I had told her that if I had a boy that we probably would circ, but I would think about it....I did research it and decided that I could never never do that to a child!!!!

It helps that our dr didn't circ his boys, and that he is very anti-circ, so when I brought it up to him he told me that I would have to ask someone else to perform it. He also said that in reality that foreskins are not hard to care for and are not "unclean" like I had been told.

Had it not been for that very vocal MW of mine, I would have never even thought twice about it! All of my future sons have her to thank for being whole
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#14 of 20 Old 05-06-2003, 01:04 AM
 
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struggle w/ this very issue all the time. It breaks my heart that I can't save every little boy and the majority of their potential sexual sensitivity but I had to stop beating myself up for my clients' decisions. I now look at it this way...we watch a video of a circ procedure, I do two activities w/ the expectant couples, and I present some of Dr Ashley Montagu's research. We spend quite a great deal of classtime on the topic. Anyway, in the end it is still their choice and I feel, while its not the choice we made for our sons, that if they see the other side and still choose to circ, well at least their choice was informed. They may still be doing it for "social reasons" (whatever that means) but at least they know what they will be putting their tiny sons through to fit the social American norm.
It can be hard and discouraging at times but stand by your convictions...we owe it to the baby boys!
Blessings,

Ashley~certified nurse-midwife mama to 6 little novaxnocirc.gifhomebirth.jpglotbirth.gif loves, including sweet Cordelia Jane born at home waterbirth.jpgon 11/12/10.
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#15 of 20 Old 05-06-2003, 02:09 AM
 
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Sarah, at least you have helped ppl. I can't seem to make a dent or plant a seed in anyone! If this child is a boy, i'm changing his diaper infront of everyone i know so I can say, "see, it ain't so bad. Looks better like this than like a raw piece of chicken." Or something clever. : I've lost my clever touch

I have seriously distanced myself from friends who are pro-circ...ppl I have known for years. It was a hard decision, but my morals and sanity are more important. I can't really be friends with someone who basically has the exact opposite views that I have about circ, parenting, bfing, etc.

I beleive in you Sarah! I wish you could be my doula...(my ob/mw practice seems pro-circ to me so far, and the info they gave me was "impartial" but still pro-circ. Also, I can tell they are a bit into intervention as well, which I want to avoid altogether. I wish you were here!)

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#16 of 20 Old 05-06-2003, 10:16 AM
 
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Standing up for your principles is always the right thing.
I completely support you and your decision.
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#17 of 20 Old 05-06-2003, 11:05 AM
 
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Christy, you're giving me chills.

I think I will take the opportunity to change baby's diaper in front of a pregnant woman I know and 'demonstrate' what would be done during a circumcision. . . "See, they'd insert a metal probe here to separate the foresking from the internal part of his penis. It's attached during childhood, you know--like kittens are born with their eyes closed. That's why you never retract a baby's foreskin. Anyhow, then after they've cut and scraped the tissue that connects them, etc."

On second thought, I don't know if I could get through it without getting light-headed.

Ugh.
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#18 of 20 Old 05-09-2003, 01:16 PM
 
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Hi DoulahSarah. I don't know if this will help, but just by being their doula, you are helping their little boy ease into this world in the most healthy manner. Concentrate on the benefits that you are able to give their son and the whole family. Just something to think about.

Hang in there and good luck with your decision.
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#19 of 20 Old 05-09-2003, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teresa
Christy, you're giving me chills.

I think I will take the opportunity to change baby's diaper in front of a pregnant woman I know and 'demonstrate' what would be done during a circumcision. . . "See, they'd insert a metal probe here to separate the foresking from the internal part of his penis. It's attached during childhood, you know--like kittens are born with their eyes closed. That's why you never retract a baby's foreskin. Anyhow, then after they've cut and scraped the tissue that connects them, etc."

On second thought, I don't know if I could get through it without getting light-headed.

Ugh.
I've done that using a Gomco clamp - a real one, yes- and also with a Mogen. Not on a real kid, no, but explained the procedure with the help of pictures sometimes. Depends. Whatever the people seem to want to know at the time. There is always a Circumstraint hanging up behind me at the NOCIRC booth, too, so that's a stark visual to begin with.
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#20 of 20 Old 05-15-2003, 08:34 PM
 
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Sarah,

I too feel for you. I am so pro-intact it has severed family ties.

My nephew was born 6 weeks early with a heart murmur. They circ'd him at 12hrs old. I pleaded with my father to stop it. He watched a video. I emailed him dozens of links. He did try. He is now very pro-intact and thinks it's gross to f-up what God has made.

I was a lunatic. I was on the phone for an hour with David Lewellen the attorny who has prosecuted several circ cases. I was trying to get a court ordered injunction to stop it. HE"S TOO SMALL. WHAT ABOUT HIS HEART. It was 12 hours of utter terror for me. I vomitted 3 times. My eyes were so swollen. I screamed and pleaded with my dad( I couldn't get ahold of my brother).

TERROR!!! Helpless. In shock. It was done. I heard him over the phone shreik as he peed on an open wound. My heart bled. It still is. We didn't speak for a year.

Christmas. My house. Everyone flew out. Even my brother. his wife, and my nephew. Everything is going well. They're in the living room. He's getting changed and ready for bed. Off comes the diaper. I see it. An exposed glans. Healed but crippled. I couldn't stop shaking. A tremble came through me. "I failed." And he paid the price. Mind and body numbing washed over me. We don't speak. They just had their 2nd. A girl thank GOD!

Don't listen to me. I'm the too skinny for 30 girl that hasn't cut my hair. Big city ideas. CRAZY!! Stop thinking so much. Can you just stop being so stubborn.You think your so smart.l That IQ stuff is a bunch of non-sense. Green beans are supposed to be cooked until their mushy not crisp. Try some sushi-no thanks I only eat beef.
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