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#1 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I really dont understand what is wrong with circs? I left the hospital with my son uncir. I had it done in a clinic at one week old. They sat down and talked to me both at the hospital, and the clinic before it was done. Handed me a sheets of pros and cons, both ways. It made perfect sense for health purposes to have it done. They did it in the other room, took about 10 mins. My son didn't cry or anything the whole time, and never did. It was easy to care for, and really easy to keep it clean. So I dont get it, whats so wrong with it?

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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#2 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:13 AM
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Read this:

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com/

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#3 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:17 AM
 
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My son's penis is really easy to keep clean too and I didn't have to cut anything off of it to make it that way. Oh, and it isn't mine to decide to have bits (large bits!) cut off of. Maybe he would have liked to have those parts for his own personal pleasure? It is just so unnecessary. We don't cut parts off of girls to "keep them clean" do we? And if it was really just 10 minutes, than it's likely that there was little or no pain relief for your son. Thats really sad.
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#4 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:22 AM
 
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They cut away part of your son's penis, a part that belonged there, that increases pleasure and is just plain old a lot of fun. For what? Nothing. And now your son will go thru life without part of himself, and he won't have as much sexual enjoyment as he should. Instead he has a wound.

That is the big deal, IMO.
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#5 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:34 AM
 
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KayCSmommy,

We welcome questions, and we're happy to share resources and information. However, please keep in mind that this is The Case Against Circumcision forum, so pro-circumcision comments/advocacy are not allowed.

You're about to embark on a journey that can be very painful for parents after the fact. Not only is care of an intact penis easy, but the foreskin is sensitive erogenous tissue with protective, sexual, and immunological functions. Many parents circumcise without really understanding what they're taking from their sons.

You will likely come across comments and other information that may be upsetting to learn.

Try to keep an open mind and remember the words of Maya Angelou:

Quote:
“I don't know if I continue, even today, always liking myself. But what I learned to do many years ago was to forgive myself. It is very important for every human being to forgive herself or himself because if you live, you will make mistakes- it is inevitable. But once you do and you see the mistake, then you forgive yourself and say, 'well, if I'd known better I'd have done better,' that's all. So you say to people who you think you may have injured, 'I'm sorry,' and then you say to yourself, 'I'm sorry.' If we all hold on to the mistake, we can't see our own glory in the mirror because we have the mistake between our faces and the mirror; we can't see what we're capable of being. You can ask forgiveness of others, but in the end the real forgiveness is in one's own self. I think that young men and women are so caught by the way they see themselves. Now mind you. When a larger society sees them as unattractive, as threats, as too black or too white or too poor or too fat or too thin or too sexual or too asexual, that's rough. But you can overcome that. The real difficulty is to overcome how you think about yourself. If we don't have that we never grow, we never learn, and sure as hell we should never teach.”
Some of the most passionate intactivists I've met, including the director of NOCIRC, Marilyn Milos, have one or more circumcised sons. If you didn't know, you're not alone. What's done is done. Sharing information with other parents can help them avoid the same mistake.

Welcome the board.

Best wishes to you as you begin to process this new information,

Jen
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#6 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Jillie View Post
My son's penis is really easy to keep clean too and I didn't have to cut anything off of it to make it that way. Oh, and it isn't mine to decide to have bits (large bits!) cut off of. Maybe he would have liked to have those parts for his own personal pleasure? It is just so unnecessary. We don't cut parts off of girls to "keep them clean" do we? And if it was really just 10 minutes, than it's likely that there was little or no pain relief for your son. Thats really sad.
Didn't want to make people mad, it was just a question.

When I was pregnant I never found out what I was having. When I checked into the hospital and they asked me if I had a boy would I want him circed. I didnt know what that ment so I said I don't know. They told me that I could decide later, and left it at that. When he was born they asked me again and I said I dont know, because I didnt know what it ment. When I looked at him later I asked the nurse what was the matter with his penis. She laughed at me and asked what I ment. Then she explained to me trying not to laugh that boys weren't born circed and it was a surgery.
Before I left the hospital they asked me again, and I said I dont know. They talked to me about it. Then I went to my clinic and my son's doctor talked to me about it for about a half and hour. After listening and reading the pros and cons and her showing me how it was done how to care for it. The health benifits I went ahead and did it. (they numbed the penis) He didnt bleed after the surgry it healed it about 5 days. I have no regreats on getting it done.
Its cutting off a piece of skin, its not cutting a piece of him. I cut skin off him about everyday. That is all your finger nail is, is harded skin. Yopur right, I never thought that it may be something that he might not want, but I also never thought about it that way. I just thought its healthier for him and got it done. I will feel bad if when he is older, if he were to tell that he wished it wasn't done. There is nothing that can be about it now.
(I am sorry if I am rambling on.)
I was just wondering why so many would be against it?

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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#7 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 12:56 AM
 
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What do you mean they did it in another room? Were you able to witness it and look into your dear son's eyes? Or wouldn't the doctors allow you to be in the room while it was being done?
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#8 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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They had to do it in a sugery room, not in the check-up room and I was standing in the doorway. She was very gentle with him and explained everything she was doing. After it was done, I cried my eyeballs out (not him). I am not even sure why I cried, I guess just being a mom. He was fine aferwards, and I never thought about it again. I just happened to catch that people were saying not to do it on this forum and was just wondering why.

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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#9 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:06 AM
 
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Maybe you cried becoz they permanently removed a very important part of your son's penis, with your consent, for no good reason? I would have cried too.
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#10 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:07 AM
 
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foreskin is much more than a fingernail, i think the word "foreskin" is misleading. it is a large, functional part of his sexual organs. fingernails are keratin, and also grow back. they have no nerve endings and don't have a protective function. i'm sorry your doctor mislead you, hopefully if you have another son you'll be a little more educated.
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#11 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:08 AM
 
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They lied to you. There are NO health benefits. None. Zip. Zilch.

It's not "just a piece of skin"

Will you have part of a daughter's labia removed? Would you like yours removed? It's just skin

Really the foreskin is a vital piece of anatomy that you removed from your son without his consent for no good reason.

Please do some more research.

-Angela
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#12 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KayCSmommy View Post
Its cutting off a piece of skin, its not cutting a piece of him. I cut skin off him about everyday. That is all your finger nail is, is harded skin. Yopur right, I never thought that it may be something that he might not want, but I also never thought about it that way. I just thought its healthier for him and got it done. I will feel bad if when he is older, if he were to tell that he wished it wasn't done. There is nothing that can be about it now.
(I am sorry if I am rambling on.)

I was just wondering why so many would be against it?
KayCSmommy-

So far, believe it or not, responses have been relatively polite. However, if you continue to make statements that mimimize circumcision people are probably going to begin posting more harshly. It's probably best to say, "I was told it was just a little piece of skin. I was lead to believe circumcision was like trimming a fingernail. Why wouldn't a man want to be circumcised?"

An adult foreskin is a double-layered, tubular sheath of mobile skin containing 3-4 feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and tens of thousands of specialized nerve endings. What's removed from a baby's penis looks tiny, but an adult foreskin is 15 square inches (picture a 3x5 index card) in size, including outer and inner mucousal skin.

If you look at these photos and read the captions you'll be able to tell just how much skin a newborn circumcision actually translates to on a full-sized, adult penis: http://www.foreskin.org/3zones-c.htm

During masturbation and intercourse, the foreskin slides back and forth over the glans (head), providing stimulation and making intercourse smooth and comfortable by reducing excessive, irritating friction. Did you know lubricant isn't necessary for intact men, even during masturbation?

Did you know you have a foreskin? The medical term for foreskin is "prepuce". Yours is your clitoral hood. In men and women the foreskin protects the glans (head of the penis and clitoris) keeping the surface of those structures thin, slightly moist, and sensitive. When that protection is removed, the skin dries and thickens, similar to the way the bottoms of your feet would callous if you went barefoot all summer. This further reduces sensitivity and sexual pleasure.

When babies are born, the foreskin is actually adhered-literally, fused-to the glans (head) much like your fingernail is attached to your finger. One of the first steps of infant circumcision requires forcefully separating those two structures with a blunt probe or scissors. Because the baby's meatus (peehole) has no protection, the urine and feces from being in diapers can irritate and scar the opening, causing a condition called meatal stenosis. 10% of circumcised boys get this, and it generally requires additional surgery to cut and stretch the scarred opening. (My stepson had this condition.)

Circumcision also removes a specialized, nerve-laden structure called the ridged band and damages or completely removes the frenulum (male g-spot).

This brief summary is really only scratching the surface, but rest assured the foreskin is not extra skin, it comes standard on all healthy baby boys and it's there for a reason.

Please stick around, try to keep an open mind, let the information soak in, and give yourself a chance to digest it. Don't hesitate to ask any questions that arise. I'm so sorry you didn't find this board before your son was born. You obviously love your little guy and did what you thought was best with the information you had available at the time.

Jen

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#13 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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Welcome! My reasons for opposing circumcision are (these'll be brief though... dd's very attached at the moment):

Because circumcising cuts off one of the most important parts of the penis. The foreskin is there for a reason and cutting it off not only carries the same risks (including, though it's very rare, death) as any other major surgery, but it's not necessary. It would be unfathomable to me to put my child through an unnecessary surgery with a 10% complication rate so that I would have to care for an open wound that would daily be exposed to excrement.

Perhaps if you told us the alleged "health benefits" you were told circumcising would give your son, we could help you see why it's not necessary. As far as I am aware, there are none (and I've done a fair turn of research on this issue). A boy who is left intact (not circumcised) has a far less than 1% chance of ever having to be circumcised later in life whereas a boy who is circumcised has a 10% chance of having meatal stenosis. Meatal stenosis is a condition CAUSED by circumcision and that requires yet another surgery which would have been unnecessary had the unnecessary circumcision not be done in the first place. *whew* that's two unnecessary surgeries instead of none. Not odds I want to be gambling with!

As for you, you shouldn't feel terribly about circumcising your son, because you thought it was the best thing at the time. If someday you come to see it as we do, then please don't be too hard on yourself. Be open to learning what we have to share though because we truly care about babies and the adults they will become. You were told some lies, no doubt, and because your instincts were true, you felt that there was something wrong during the circumcision or you wouldn't have felt so badly. Please read the sticky at the top for mamas who circumcised their sons and regret it. I think it may help you place some of the feelings you had during the circumcision and work through any bad feelings you may still have about it.

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#14 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 01:43 AM
 
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Why would so many people be against it?


To speak painly, because it violates a fundamental human right.


Your son has the right to bodily integrity.


By forcing a completely unnecessary, damaging and traumatic surgery on him, without his consent, you have (whether knowingly or not) violated his fundamental human rights.


He is permanently damaged. He will never ever ever be able to experience normal, natural sex.


You have amputated what will be 240 feet of nerves. . . around 20,000 nerve endings (those provide sexual sensation!).


You have removed the protective functions, so his glans (the head of the penis) will become hardened, dried out, less sensitive.


Over 80 percent of the men in the world are intact, they have whole penises. Your son's penis is now scarred, no longer whole.


Please take some time, read through the resource stickies at the top of the forum. Once you are ready I hope you will post your story in the "Regret" thread. It can be a very healing experience for many people.




- Kira
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#15 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:01 AM
 
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There are alot of myths on circumcision which claims that it has benefits there is truly no benefit in circumcision :

Cleaner is a false benefit of circumcision because most parents or doctor hold onto the belief of having to pull back the foreskin to clean under so some may think they might be removing the work but in reality they are making the boy more unclean because they removed the protective covering of the penis that does not ever need to be forcibly pulled back to clean so in non circumcized boys all you have to do is wipe on the outside it takes time to be retractable sometimes as late teens or early adulthood.

When I see my son who is non -circed have a blow out omg boy am I grateful that he has his foreskin because there has never even been any worries of feces on his glans because his foreskin is protecting his glans and I don't have to worry about getting feces into his meatus because he's has his meatus protected by his foreskin from preventing lil feces shreds into his meatus.

I took care of a circ'ed boy when he had a blow out there was no way I could prevent the feces from not getting into the meatus because it was so tightly stuck to the glans then between the edge of remenants omg it took me longer to do that because I had to be so focused on 'cleaning it' when with my son Wipe & Go. Non-Circ'ed is easier to take care of than circ'ed male JMO.

Locker Room is now 50/50 half non circed and half circ'ed

Teasing happens of anything too tall, too short, a guy who is too long in the sausage department or too short in the sausage department, freckles, a bully could be the one who could have a foreskin and tease the cut boy w/ cruel words , girls get teased by being big busted or flat chested, alot of kids with specials needs get teased, including categories in highschool - like sports - called a jock, like chess, computer, is extra smart -called either a geek or dork or you may not even like that & called a geek or dork because of the outfits or hairstyle you have .

UTI is more higher in girls and the study was very flawed by Edgar Schoen who was way obsessed with circumcised penis even his site is so off balance he used to be on the AAP chair but he got thrown off because of his poems of the Circumcised Penis. Antibiotics cure UTI in circ'ed & non-circ boys just because a boy is circ'ed it won't mean he won't get a UTI or infection(s). Yeast infections can happen in non circ boys balanthopothsitis and circ'ed boys balantitis -antifungal yeast cream 3.50 OTC works great for both non circ and circ boys including girls!

http://www.catholicsagainstcircumcis...plications.htm

Alot of men are unhappy of being circumcised because they had no say it it and some of them have complications from the circumcision that effects their sex life that has about quite a alot of men restoring to get back what they lost pleasing them & their wife .

Read the thread that states Angry with MIL that shows how men & wives have suffered with complications in sexual relations due to the issue of circumcision complications.

Acquired phimosis happens in circ'ed males 70% time when there is still some foreskin remaining and it reheals it back to the glans , shaft , or even scar line because nature makes the foreskin to attach to the glans as in protecting things from getting in there . Which is a higher risk of where skin tags, skin bridges come from.

A non-circ'ed boy has congential phimosis and can have it until he's 18 if he's non retractable by then . Then they will use alternative treatments -stretching techniques, steriod creams, small surgeries like a frenulocotmy for possible frenulm breve, dorsal slit that makes the foreskin more movable.

Circumcision is not just a removing of the foreskin it is also a frenulmocotmy which is the removal of the frenulm that is considered a 'g-spot for men. The frenulm is what attaches the foreskin to the penile shaft near the underside of the coronal rim.

Foreskin protects the glans from drying out as in words of kerantizing and gives enough lube for both partners if you go overseas you won't find any lube like KY jelly because Europe is a non-circing country just like some other places and when drying out of the penile glans is why a guy needs lube .

HIV & STD's are not prevented in circ'ed or non circ'ed boys after all how come overseas have lower rates of HIV while USA is a highly circumcised country has the Highest HIV & STD rate ? The only way to prevent that is to do not have sex with infected partners-that is russian roulette- , do not cheat on partners, stay with a partner that is STD-Free and a non cheater - condoms may help but they are not totally proofable since they break at times!

Neonate foreskins are reengineered to grow to sell to companies to put foreskin in aging facial creams high purchasers are Mary Kay & L'oreal .

What's funny of the look alike argument hey my son is a boy with his penis - i'm raising him on my own - i don't have a penis - he sees me using the bathroom. We don't look alike he's a boy -i'm a girl. He's young and I'm old .

His questions of concern is where is mommy penis ? lol

There are so much other things and in most cases clinics will try to solict the surgery even if insurance does or do not pay for it because they still get the money in their pocket for the procedure & the money for 'selling the foreskin to wrinkle companies! 300$ -500$ operation done so if a dr. did 10 circs for that price a day = 3,000- 5,000 $ /day profit

Then to include the buyers which could pay around 10,000-24,000 for for foreskin to use in their 'products' makes a mighty rich doctor.




So some doctors may still be living in the past of old school taught when there was belief of all issues that involved foreskin but what helped stopped some of the infections was when doctors/parents did not retract as in pull back their foreskin and stopped telling parents to do that but some doctors as if you read in Warning of Intact (non circ'ed ) Son's is how doctors actually forcibably retract their foreskin or even left over foreskin on circ'ed boys which can risk of causing issues because it 'creates a wound that creates an entry for bacteria!

I hope I wasn't sounding too critical it is kinda tough to hear a doctor talk of pro's and con's when in reality there are alot of con's that the doctors are not really aware of and they don't know of the full anantomy of foreskin -ridge band down the road which will help gliding motion for intimacy and gliding motion to help with retraction, has lots of nerves & blood vessels!
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#16 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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re: "i don't get it".


In order it to "get it" you have to have an unbiased & unsexist belief that everyone deserves to keep everything they are born with. NOT just girls.

You were lucky enough to keep all of your genitalia intact, because you were born a girl. Boys genitals are not treated with the same respect that girls are and it is grossly unfair and unjust. Circ is medically unnecessary. There are countless doctors around the world who will back this up too.

Cutting off parts of another persons body which wont grow back (unlike your example of fingernails which DO grow back) is exclusively the decision of the individual who owns the penis or the vagina, not anyone else.
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#17 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:18 AM
 
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Some babies don't cry when they get circed, they go into shock.

And even if they get pain meds during the ripping of the foreskin from the glans, and then the cutting, they still have to heal from a very painful surgery. Why put someone through that if they are already healthy???
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#18 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not arguing just wanted to know, obvissly this is a very strong subject. When he was circed, sex was not on my mind. ( I mean he is a baby, him have sex, masterbating not something I want to think about) No one told me that there was any sexual side effects, I wasnt even aware that there were such thing as non-circed penis. I grew up around all girls, (mom, sisters and I, and niece) never seen un un cired penis except for my sons. Hell yeah it freaked me out when I saw it, I thought something was wrong with him. I was told it was just a piece of extra skin. I dont regret anything, because everything went fine and is fine now. If I had another boy would I get him circ. I dont know, but I would definatly look more into the subject. Thanks For everones opions! Makes me think about stuff, I never second guess.

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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#19 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:58 AM
 
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* READ THIS NOW!!!:
http://forum.fathermag.com/circ/066/...s/159878.shtml


* 12 reasobs to say no to circumcision (logical):
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/5...rcumcision.htm

*a slide presentation of the history of circumcision (easy, just read and follow the red arrows):
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization_o...ion.htm#Page_1

* and:
http://www.byronchild.com/arts27.htm
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#20 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:58 AM
 
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OP: Hell yeah it freaked me out when I saw it, I thought something was wrong with him. I was told it was just a piece of extra skin. I dont regret anything, because everything went fine and is fine now.
It is a sad commentary that when a girl is born, she is pronounced perfect in every way, but when a little boy is born his mother & 1/2 of society thinks he has a birth defect that needs to be surgically corrected asap. The human body doesn't need to be redesigned, everything is put there for a good reason. Do a little research and you will find that the male prepuce actually serves a darn good purpose.

www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org

It's so nice that you have "no regrets" but then, you don't have to live with the consequences of that decision or the penis, your son does.
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#21 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 02:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KayCSmommy View Post
I am not arguing just wanted to know, obvissly this is a very strong subject. When he was circed, sex was not on my mind. ( I mean he is a baby, him have sex, masterbating not something I want to think about) No one told me that there was any sexual side effects, I wasnt even aware that there were such thing as non-circed penis. I grew up around all girls, (mom, sisters and I, and niece) never seen un un cired penis except for my sons. Hell yeah it freaked me out when I saw it, I thought something was wrong with him. I was told it was just a piece of extra skin. I dont regret anything, because everything went fine and is fine now. If I had another boy would I get him circ. I dont know, but I would definatly look more into the subject. Thanks For everones opions! Makes me think about stuff, I never second guess.
The penis is a man's primary sex organ. Circumcision removes 1/3-1/2 of the skin on the penis. How could cutting a healthy, normal, standard part of it *not* have sexual side effects? We don't generally think of our children as sexual beings, but the reality is they're future autonomous adults. The fact that most American parents aren't considering this amputative surgery's effects on a future man's penis, without his consent, before he can assert his preferrences or have any say in the matter is precisely why circumcision doesn't belong within the realm of parental choice.

Just because he didn't experience immediate, surgical complications like hemorrhage, infection, or death doesn't mean he's "fine". His foreskin-and all of it's functions-are gone forever. It would be a good idea to start researching "foreskin restoration" so that when he's older you can apologize and explain his options. Foreskin restoration involves stretching the remaining shaft skin to recreate a covering for the penis. This helps soften up some of the dried, thickened skin, helping to restore *some* of the lost sensitivity. Some 100,000 men have gone through this type of non-surgical restoration.

Second guessing, especially when we discover something we didn't know before, is a very good thing. As parents, we learn as we go and none of us are perfect. It's essential to the health, happiness, and wellbeing of any future children we're blessed with to be honest about reconsidering our past parenting decisions so we can avoid making the same mistakes again.

Kudos to you for asking these questions and reading through the answers with an open mind!

Jen
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#22 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:04 AM
 
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KayCSmommy, circumcision started in USA 100 years ago.

Why?

To stop boys from masturbating.

Most of the world's men are intact, over 80% in fact. If we leave religious circumcision out, only USA circumcise baby boys.

This is where it all started;

"There can be no doubt of [masturbation's] injurous effect, and of the proneness to practice it on the part of children with defective brains. Circumcision should always be practiced. It may be necessary to make the genitals so sore by blistering fluids that pain results from attempts to rub the parts." -- Angel Money. Treatment of Disease In Children.Philidelphia: P. Blakiston, 1887. p.421

As far as foreskin itself.

Here is an excellent collection of info from Fathering Magazine;
http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/

Here is another excellent information link - read the anatomy section. After that, you can hardly call foreskin 'just a piece of skin'?

http://www.infocirc.org/welcome.htm

Good luck with your research.
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#23 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:15 AM
 
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KayCSmommy,

All of the pp are being very gentle with you here although it may not feel like that...please understand that this is a very emotionally charged issue.

What stood out to me in your posts was the number of time that this question was posed to you during your stay at the hospital and at the clinic. Mamas, refresh my memory but isn't the APA against circumcision?
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#24 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:19 AM
 
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KCSmommy,

I only recently was enlightened to this topic....and it had a lot had to do with my 2nd pregnancy (since I had a girl for #1, I didn't have to think about it). And honestly, while I knew about the physical difference between a circumcised penis vs. an intact penis, I didn't take the time to become informed of this topic until I bumped into this particular website and this topic matter.

I asked many of my female friends with baby boys if they circumcised, to get their opinion, and they reported back all the misinformation that many people believe: hygenic reasons, locker room theory, daddy looks different theory....and well, that's all they came up with. But I had a male friend who told me he WASN'T circumcised, and he told me about the sexual pleasure, etc....it was a different viewpoint. I listened to their reasons for their decisions, and when I started conducting more research, I realized that there really isn't a true medical reason to circumcise. I was able to inform myself ahead of time, something it sounds like you weren't really able to do, since you didn't know all the pros and cons.

I think it is actually a GOOD thing you stopped by and asked your question...because I think many people never question it so therefore they just mosey along with the same thought in their head....never really finding out why, but just accepting it. But you DID stop by, and you asked. So if you have another little boy, give the subject true consideration. If you have other friend's who are pondering this topic, you at least know the alternatives, the WHY NOT to circumcise. Good luck with your research!
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#25 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:27 AM
 
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No medical organisation in the world including the AAP endorce circ now. If you were told that circ was healthier you were lied to. 80% of the worlds population is intact with no issues. My dh was circed like so many others he also suffers from common complications of circ that no one tells you about. Skin bridges, hair pulled up onto the shaft from to much skin removed. I could go on and on but the point is that every man who is circed looses between 30-50% of his potential to feel pleasure because when the foreskin is removed it takes off that much skin depending on the type of circ and who does it.


Here are some FACTS about what is lost when a boy is circed. I know it is a long list but please take the time to read it.

Reasons to leave your son intact:

- The owner of the penis should be the one to decide what to do with it.

-The foreskin, not the head, is the most sensitive part of the normal, intact penis.

- The movable shaft skin of an intact penis facilitates intercourse, reducing friction and prolonging pleasurable sex for both male and female.

- The foreskin aids in foreplay; lubricants are optional.

- An intact penis will have no circumcision scar, will often have less hair drawn up onto it shaft, and will on average be somewhat larger than a circumcised penis.

- The foreskin protects and lubricates the head or “glans” of the penis for the life of its owner. The glans or the head of the penis was never meant to be a external organ it should be inside the foreskin to protect it and keep it sensitive.

-80-85% of the world’s male population has intact genitals, including nearly all European males (please note that HIV/AIDS rates are actually lower in Europe than in America). Circumcision does NOT prevent AIDS wearing a condom does.

- 80% of the world’s circumcised men in the world are in the US. 80% of the world’s Viagra sales are in the US. Coincidence?

- When people from non circumcising countries hear that we in the USA still do it they are usually shocked, and often don't believe it to be true.

- Care of the intact infant penis is actually much easier as there is no wound care, you just wash it like a finger, it should never be retracted by anyone other than the child. The age it becomes retractable varies greatly normal range is childhood to adulthood.

- The foreskin contains three to four feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10-20,000 specialized nerve endings.

-Male circumcision permanently diminishes the sexual feelings for both male and female.

- When the foreskin is removed 30-50% of sexual pleasure goes with it. Because 30-50% of the total penile skin is removed during a RIC depending on the Dr. and the type of circumcision that is done.

-The circumcision rate in the USA has fallen from 90% in 1970 to roughly 56% today.

- Circumcisions was originally introduced in the country in the late 1800s to prevent masturbation. It has since been touted as the cure for all sorts of ailments - none of which are scientifically provable are even remotely true.

- Cutting off the foreskin cuts off the most sensitive, erotic, pleasurable part of a man’s body. The foreskin plays a very important role in sex. Men who were circumcised later in life compare circed sex/intact sex to black and white TV and plasma TV. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
-Circumcision is almost NEVER medically necessary. The only true medical reasons for circ are, frostbite, gangrene and cancer (all of those would be extremely rare) The incidence for necessary medical circumcisions is less that 0.05%.

- No medical organization anywhere recommends routine infant circ.
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/

- Circumcision is EXTREMELY painful, even if anesthetic is administered. Studies have proved that babies feel pain even more acutely than an adult would. It is a very great breech of trust for a baby to be taken from his parents and cut. It is very violating. Long after any anesthesia that might(most only get a sugar dipped rag or paci to suck on) have been used wears off there is still a raw open wound sitting in urine and feces with no pain relief.

-The intact penis, if left alone, has no greater risk for UTI's, STD's, Penile Cancer, HIV, causing Cervical Cancer in women.

UTI myth http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php
Quote:
In fact, UTI's are so rare in any case that, using Wiswell's data, 50 to 100 healthy boys would have to be circumcised in order to prevent a UTI from developing in only one patient. (Using more recent data from a better-controlled study, the number of unnecessary operations needed to prevent one hospital admission for UTI would jump to 195.
http://www.cirp.org/news/1997.12.22_PhysiciansWeekly/
FORESKINS: Seek Elsewhere for Infants' Urinary Tract Infections

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...ION%20OF%20UTI
UTI Neonatal circumcision revisited


http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/
THE INCIDENCE OF GENITOURINARY ABNORMALITIES IN CIRCUMCISED AND UNCIRCUMCISED BOYS PRESENTING WITH AN INITIAL URINARY TRACT INFECTION BY 6 MONTHS OF AGE
- Girls have a much greater risk of UTIs, yet we wouldn't cut off their clitoris or labia to prevent them.

Cancer Society:http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/co...evented_35.asp
Quote:
In the past, circumcision has been suggested as a way to prevent penile cancer. This suggestion was based on studies that reported much lower penile cancer rates among circumcised men than among uncircumcised men. However, most researchers now believe those studies were flawed because they failed to consider other factors that are now known to affect penile cancer risk.
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/
Quote:
Gellis (1978) said there are more deaths from circumcision than from cancer of the penis.8
Boczko et al . found numerous reports of penile cancer in circumcised men, thus conclusively disproving Wolbarst's false claims of protection from penile cancer by circumcision.9
In "Circumcision: An American Health Fallacy," Edward Wallerstein writes14: "If infant circumcision reduces penile cancer we could expect to see proportionately less penile cancer in circumcising nations as compared to non-circumcising ones. No such difference is found."
Quote:
******* established quite clearly that there was little evidence to support a relationship between lack of circumcision and penile cancer, cervical cancer, or cancer of the prostate in 1970 but he was unable to identify the causative agent at that time,6 while Leitch did the same in Australia.
Circumcision and AIDS/HIV
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/ http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003362.html
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...Statement.html

Comparison of North America to other non-circ countries HIV status
http://www.avert.org/america.htm
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm
- The times the intact penis has trouble are when it is forcefully retracted before it is ready. The penis should only be retracted by its owner, when he’s ready. It is normal to not be retractable until after puberty. It is not a problem.

- Circumcision is SURGERY and as such poses significant risks of infection to the wound.
Possible complications include but are not limited to:
Infections;
Botched circumcisions that have to be redone;
To tight circumcisions that cause extreme pain with erection;
Hair on the shaft;
Loss of sensation in the glans (head), it becomes keratinized (hardened) without the foreskin;
Amputation of the part or all of the penis;
Ruptured stomach, bladder, and or intestines from crying so hard;
Skin bridges
Adhesions
Scaring on the penis shaft
Meatal Stenosis http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/persad/
DEATH
and much much more.
It is estemated that between 10-15% of all males will have at least 1 or more of the complications listed above. But none of these side effects are present when leaving a boy intact.

Links of pictures Warning graphic pictures
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm


- There are NO medical benefits with routine infant circumcision. It is a cosmetic surgery, and as such more insurance companies will NOT pay for it.

- Circumcision is big business in the US. Several billions of dollars every year. Doctors are very invested in keeping the circumcision myths alive.

- A single doctor can make $20,000 a year doing circumcisions.

- A little known fact is that foreskins are then resold to the highest bidder. They are used in cosmetics, skin growth for grafting, cancer treatments and much more. The after life of foreskins is also a multi billion dollar a year industry. Parents are not told about this. There is no informed consent. Certainly the foreskins owner doesn’t have a say in the matter.

- “Every boy born in the US has a $300 coupon attached to his foreskin. All you have to do is cut it off to redeem.”

- Circumcision should only be performed on consenting adults who know all that is entailed.

-What if your son wants his foreskin?

- A lot of men are very angry when they find out the truth and feel very violated. (like my husband.)

- How would you feel if someone cut off your clitoris and labia without asking you? They do it in Africa all the time. We are horrified when little girls are mutilated. Why not when little boys?

- It causes immense trauma & physical pain to a brand new baby who just had to undergo birth. Often times a baby will suddenly cease crying and so the Doctors say it doesn't hurt them. It does - they are in shock.

- Smegma isn’t bad or gross. It is the Greek word for soap. Women have it too. It helps keep everything clean and healthy. No intact boy should be forcefully retracted just to clean it out. It’s supposed to be there!

- When they separate the foreskin from the glans it is similar to ripping off your fingernails. Than they crush the foreskin and cut it off - most often with NO pain relief. They also stimulate an erection so they “know where to cut.” A boys first sexual experience is one of great pain and trauma.

Common myths you may hear from others and even Dr's:

http://www.coloradonocirc.org/myths.php

Why men may insist on circumcision article

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Side by side comparison of MGM & FGM
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html


 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#26 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:29 AM
 
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Hi, new poster, sorry, I haven't read all the responses on the 2nd page yet, pardon me if this was already said.

Just wanted to put this out there, removing the foreskin of a little boy in nerve endings is the equivalent of removing a baby girl's clitoris along with other vital parts of a little girl.

No one here in this country knows this because this is a country of mostly circumcised men. If it was reversed, if it was routine for doctors to tell you of all the health benefits of removing your little girls clitoris, and you did it, and you had yours removed before you could remember, and every other woman you knew had theirs removed before they could remember, most women would not be aware of how sensitive the clitoris and how pleasurable the clitoris makes sex.

Thus is the same with boys. I know this because my husband is circumcised. He is going through the process of restoring his foreskin. He never thought he missed it, it wasn't a big deal to him. It was hard for me to convince him to give it a shot.

NOw that he is restoring, there are sensations there that he never dreamed he could ever have during sex. And yet, even so, it will never be the same as if it would have been if he had had his natural foreskin.

all baby boys deserve the right to experience their body the way it is at birth, and it is not right for doctors to try to convince moms that they should have parts of their baby boys removed. The same rights of girls should apply to boys.

sorry, it's late, my toddler is up, if that didn't make any sense.
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#27 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:37 AM
 
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So, the clinic that circ'd your son, will they also circumcise my daughter?

My DD's right to genital integrity is protected by law, not so for my son. It's a human rights violation either way around.

Chaotic uc.jpg homeschool.gif mama to 5 plus a bonus one on the way.  stork-suprise.gif

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#28 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 03:47 AM
 
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Boys are born with a foreskin for a reason, otherwise they would be born without one! That was enough "proof" of the importance of leaving him intact that I needed. And I too didn't think of the "sexual" nature of my infant son, I only took into consideration that God made him perfect, who was I to believe that he needing "fixing?" It just makes me so sad that you weren't given the information you needed to make an informed choice.

Freelance Chef/Gluten Free Food Blogger and SAHM to The Boy 12/05 and The Girl 11/07.  Berkeley Girl (at heart) living and eating my way through Paris.  And yes, French wine really is that good. 

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#29 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 04:14 AM
 
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I just have one question...

What if your son is extremely unhappy with his penis when he's older because of his circ?

Lots of men feel violated and robbed because of circumcision. Just go to www.norm.org to see what thousands of men go through in order to try to get their penises somewhat back to normal (although all the nerve endings, the ridged band, and th frenulum can never be restored). It is so sad to see this society act like it's "no big deal". But it IS a big deal to a LOT of men. What's done is done for your son. I hope you think about what your future sons would want. At least boys kept intact will have a CHOICE. PLEASE think about what your sons would want, not what you want. It's NOT YOUR PENIS.

And I really hate to break it to you, but your son was not given pain relief. If they used any pain relief, they did not give it time to take effect, hence making it worthless. The procedure itself takes 10-15 minutes. And it's usually done in a soundproof room. You weren't allowed to go back because you would have freaked when your son started shrieking. They brought him back to you sleeping probably, right? He wasn't sleeping. His tiny body shut down from being in so much pain.

And really, you don't know that your son's penis is fine. You won't know that until he's fully grown and chances are, he's not going to tell you if there's something wrong with it at that point. My husband's penis skin SPLIT OPEN multiple times when he was a teenager, because he wasn't left with enough skin to grow into. But I guess that's no big deal huh? Of course, he didn't tell his mom. He didn't tell anybody. Until me. It's obvious that it's a result of his circumcision, because of where the scar is. That could be your son one day. Please spare your future sons the pain. Both the physical and the emotional.
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#30 of 83 Old 01-24-2007, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
I just have one question...

What if your son is extremely unhappy with his penis when he's older because of his circ?

Lots of men feel violated and robbed because of circumcision. Just go to www.norm.org to see what thousands of men go through in order to try to get their penises somewhat back to normal (although all the nerve endings, the ridged band, and th frenulum can never be restored). It is so sad to see this society act like it's "no big deal". But it IS a big deal to a LOT of men. What's done is done for your son. I hope you think about what your future sons would want. At least boys kept intact will have a CHOICE. PLEASE think about what your sons would want, not what you want. It's NOT YOUR PENIS.

And I really hate to break it to you, but your son was not given pain relief. If they used any pain relief, they did not give it time to take effect, hence making it worthless. The procedure itself takes 10-15 minutes. And it's usually done in a soundproof room. You weren't allowed to go back because you would have freaked when your son started shrieking. They brought him back to you sleeping probably, right? He wasn't sleeping. His tiny body shut down from being in so much pain.

And really, you don't know that your son's penis is fine. You won't know that until he's fully grown and chances are, he's not going to tell you if there's something wrong with it at that point. My husband's penis skin SPLIT OPEN multiple times when he was a teenager, because he wasn't left with enough skin to grow into. But I guess that's no big deal huh? Of course, he didn't tell his mom. He didn't tell anybody. Until me. It's obvious that it's a result of his circumcision, because of where the scar is. That could be your son one day. Please spare your future sons the pain. Both the physical and the emotional.

Thank You for answering my questions, I understand both sides. Which was not explained to me, at either the hospital or the clinic. Maybe instead of being angry with people like me, that were never informed. You should get the word out there to other Moms. Being angry at something that is already done, does no good, giving preventive positive info to others is!
I hate to argue, but I was in the room when my son was circumsised. If you would have read all my threads you would have known this.
I was standing by the door with a nurse. The doctor explained everything that she was doing. They did give him pain killer, it was general anesthetics, (like what the dentist does to work on your teeth) it doesnt take long for it took work. He jumped when they gave him the anesthetic, that was his only negitive reaction. He never once cried, or acted stressed or unhappy. He just watched the dr and nurses, as they worked. Afterwards she showed me how to care for him for the next few days. Then I wrapped him back up and cuddled him. (While crying)
Your right I didnt think about his future sex life, because I wasnt aware there was an affect on it. I thought that the circumsised penis was the way that it was suposed to be, so I never saw it as a unnessary prodedure. I was told that it was normal easy in and out surgery, with little to no side effects. That it was easier for them to care for and keep themselves clean with a circ, that they would be less likely to have, UTI's, STD's, and better for them. Verses leaving it as is with no benifits, and with no, to very little side effects. So I chose what I thought was best. I have no regrets, because living with regrets, does you no good, learn from it and then live. (Dont cry over spilt milk)
Believe me if my son comes to me one day and asks why he had the surgery, then I will tell him the same thing I am telling you.
As for now he is a perfectly WHOLE, and happy baby. There is nothing wrong with him. He is the same baby before and after.

Thanks for answering my questions, and all the information I should have known, but didnt! Have a nice night!

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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