New UN Recommendations....not good... - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/...s_circumcision

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#2 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Amydoula View Post
Well, if anything shows that the UN is up it's own a$$ and under American control, that does.

Shameful.
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#3 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 10:58 AM
 
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That's f'd up.

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#4 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 11:06 AM
 
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WTF is wrong with people are most people just f'ing idiots?!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#5 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 12:49 PM
 
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OI! Still on with that stupid African study that proves NOTHING!
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#6 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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Umm . . . so did the recent research regarding Langerhans cells just get swept into a dimensional vortex?

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#7 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 12:52 PM
 
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Wait, you actually expected the UN to actually be "up to date" with recent events?
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#8 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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Not that it makes a difference, but it does say over and over that only heterosexual males should be circumcised, so since you can't tell if an infant is going to gay, you shouldn't circ infants right? But, I doubt they are really saying that. And it's stupid anyway.

I did have to laugh at the name of the director of WHO's HIV/AIDS department though, Dr. Kevin De Cock.

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#9 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 01:04 PM
 
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Ug.

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#10 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 01:36 PM
 
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I posted this in another forum:

Quote:
The (flawed) studies in Africa presumed that the reason circumcision seemed to reduce HIV risk was...

A.) Langerhans Cells are highly susceptible to HIV invasion and are the primary entry point for infection.
B.) Calloused, keratinized genitals are less thin, sensitive, delicate, mucousal and that thick skin is a barrier against HIV.

The UN sadly missed the latest research regarding Langerhans Cells---which the foreskin and labia are full of---destroying HIV like pacman.

Quote:
Scientists Discover 'Natural Barrier' to HIV
By E.J. Mundell
HealthDay Reporter

MONDAY, March 5 (HealthDay News) -- Researchers have discovered that cells in the mucosal lining of human genitalia produce a protein that "eats up" invading HIV -- possibly keeping the spread of the AIDS more contained than it might otherwise be.

...

When HIV comes in contact with genital mucosa, its ultimate target -- the cells it seeks to hijack and destroy -- are immune system T-cells. But T-cells are relatively far away (in lymph tissues), so HIV uses nearby Langerhans cells as "vehicles" to migrate to T-cells.

For decades, the common wisdom was that HIV easily enters and infects Langerhans cells. Geijtenbeek's team has now cast doubt on that notion.

Looking closely at the interaction of HIV and Langerhans cells, they found that the cells "do not become infected by HIV-1, because the cells have the protein Langerin on their cell surface," Geijtenbeek said. "Langerin captures HIV-1 very efficiently, and this Langerin-bound HIV-1 is taken up (a bit like eating) by the Langerhans cells and destroyed."

In essence, Geijtenbeek said, "Langerhans cells act more like a virus vacuum cleaner."


"We are currently investigating whether we can enhance Langerin function by increasing the amount of Langerin on the cell surface of Langerhans cells," he said. "This might be a real possibility, but it will take time. I am also confident that other researchers will now also start exploring this possibility."

The discovery might also help explain differences in vulnerability to HIV infection among people.

"It is known that the Langerin gene is different in some individuals," Geijtenbeek noted. "These differences could affect the function of Langerin. Thus, Langerhans cells with a less functional Langerin might be more susceptible to HIV-1, and these individuals are more prone to infection.
We are currently investigating this."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20070305...albarriertohiv
It's quite possible these limited studies in certain high-risk adult male populations in Africa have more to do with genetic predisposition/poorly functioning langerhans cells as opposed to the presence/absence of the foreskin.
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#11 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 01:45 PM
 
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From the article where it says: "Still, men and women who consider male circumcision as an HIV preventive method need to continue using other forms of protection such as male and female condoms, abstinence, delaying the start of sexual activity and reducing the number of sexual partners, she said."


So basically, the article is admitting that all of the EXACT same precautions need to be taken to avoid contracting HIV. So what is the point of circing then?! :

So, it's not like being circ'd gives men any sort of advantage. Not only can they *still* not indulge in high risk behaviors, they will be missing part of their penis too. How many people will take this information and blow it out of proportion? I think this article is dangerous because it may imply that if you are circ'd, you can toss your pack of Trojans into the trash. Ugh.

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#12 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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And where in the world is the money to come from to provide cheap/free sanitary circumcisions when there isn't even enough funding to provide everyone with enough condoms?

ETA- meaning in Africa.
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#13 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 02:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rico'sAlice View Post
And where in the world is the money to come from to provide cheap/free sanitary circumcisions when there isn't even enough funding to provide everyone with enough condoms?

ETA- meaning in Africa.
Exactly.

How many condoms would the cost of a single adult circumcision buy?

Previous, related thread about the condom situation in Africa: Africa & Condom Access Appalling.

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#14 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lauren82 View Post
From the article where it says: "Still, men and women who consider male circumcision as an HIV preventive method need to continue using other forms of protection such as male and female condoms, abstinence, delaying the start of sexual activity and reducing the number of sexual partners, she said."


So basically, the article is admitting that all of the EXACT same precautions need to be taken to avoid contracting HIV. So what is the point of circing then?! :

So, it's not like being circ'd gives men any sort of advantage. Not only can they *still* not indulge in high risk behaviors, they will be missing part of their penis too. How many people will take this information and blow it out of proportion? I think this article is dangerous because it may imply that if you are circ'd, you can toss your pack of Trojans into the trash. Ugh.
: I just heard the guy from th UN on the radio saying exactly this "Other precautionary methods are required"

My head is spinning at this madness. How long will it take to start collecting data on the numbers of Aids related deaths of circumcised men? Or will they ever publish those stats?
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#15 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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Instead of circing like it will be some sort of "cure all", more effort needs to be put into STD education and prevention. People cannot be expected to protect themselves from HIV if they are not properly informed about how it is transmitted and given access to condoms.

Since another poster brought up the issue of cost of circs, it makes me wonder if Africa will start seeing a rise in "back alley" circs done similar to FGM with things like broken glass/cans. *sigh*

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#16 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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"The agencies said much depends on the situation in a given country, and little general benefit will result in countries where the HIV epidemic is concentrated among sex workers, injecting drug users or men who have sex with men."

That's the most reasonable statement in the whole article.

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#17 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 03:52 PM
 
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Friends: I have believed for a long time that this is really all about finding a medical reason to continue circing so it cannot be outlawed on the basis of harm to the infant. Circ has always been a mutilation looking for a justification. It goes deep, deep into the human psyche. Once any genital cutting has been established in a society it is very hard to root out. There is only so much reason can do. But that is no reason not to be reasonable. We just have to keep on plugging along, pointing out the fallacies of faulty reasoning and poorly designed studies. At least you can point out the the UN agrees circ would have little effect in the US.
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#18 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:03 PM
 
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Pure insanity.

You can circumcise a man for probably about what the cost of condoms would cost for his lifetime (I'm guessing $500 here), THEN still have to pay for the condoms?

I agree with Dave2GA- it's mutilation looking for justification.

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#19 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dave2GA View Post
At least you can point out the the UN agrees circ would have little effect in the US.
I believe that it would have little effect in Africa too. It amazes me how so many things are allowed to be put in print as "factual". In fact, that statement really doesn't make much sense. Do we not have a fairly high rate of HIV in the US? Do we not also have a fairly high rate of circ'ing too...(certainly higher than the circing rate in Africa)? But I suppose in Africa, their penises will be magical and block HIV.

The so called "logic" behind that article is disgusting.

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#20 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by krankedyann View Post

I agree with Dave2GA- it's mutilation looking for justification.
Same here. What's really scary is that articles like that are more ammunition and justification for pro circ doctors and mothers/fathers. I've already seen it in mainstream forums/DDCs.
:

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#21 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:22 PM
 
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Here is the contact info for WHO, if anyone is up for emailing or writing to them about this:

World Health Organization
Department of HIV/AIDS
20, Avenue Appia
CH-1211 Geneva 27
Switzerland
Email: hiv-aids@who.int

Here's a link to the info on their web site & has additional contact info at the bottom:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/.../en/index.html
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#22 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:38 PM
 
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Here's another article on this latest development:
http://www.newscientist.com/article....ine-news_rss20

Note this comment:

"[Kim] Dickson [coordinator of the joint WHO/UNAIDS working group that produced the report] says promoting the procedure would have greatest impact in countries where more than 15 per cent of heterosexual men are HIV-positive, but fewer than 20 per cent are circumcised."

I.e. even if the African studies were true, it would have little impact on the AIDS situation in the US where very few hetero men are positive, but 75% are circ'd. It is important to repeat Dickson's words over and over to deter any push to promote infant circumcision to prevent HIV in the US.

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#23 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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I don't get it. I just don't get it. I really really really don't get it.

If a man still needs to take all the same precautions as before then how in the hell can they say circ does anything to prevent infection? Where are the *real* scientists that have an ounce of common sense?
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#24 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kleine Hexe View Post
I don't get it. I just don't get it. I really really really don't get it.

If a man still needs to take all the same precautions as before then how in the hell can they say circ does anything to prevent infection? Where are the *real* scientists that have an ounce of common sense?
You're assuming that logic comes into it at all. It doesn't.

This is the "syphilis panic" of the 1930s all over again, genital mutilation finding a current disease to cure. Only this time it's fatal, and circ'd men will think they can't get it. Oh well. Make sure the people you love have the facts, sit back and watch the cutters self destruct.
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#25 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 05:35 PM
 
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The US has the HIGHEST rate of circ'd men among the developed countries. It has the HIGHEST rate of HIV infection. DUH.:
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#26 of 48 Old 03-28-2007, 06:23 PM
 
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This is the "syphilis panic" of the 1930s all over again, genital mutilation finding a current disease to cure. Only this time it's fatal, and circ'd men will think they can't get it. Oh well. Make sure the people you love have the facts, sit back and watch the cutters self destruct.
Yeah, except desperate people in Africa who are truly at risk are looking to these organizations for advice, and this crap is already motivating parents in the US to cut their infant sons.

I'm afraid the 'destruction' isn't coming for the cutters, but rather the cuttees.

Jen
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#27 of 48 Old 03-29-2007, 02:08 AM
 
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#28 of 48 Old 03-29-2007, 02:26 AM
 
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And yet. NO WHERE there is articles about the fact that circumcising USA has the highest STD&HIV rates when many western intact countries have very low STD&HIV rates.

More circumcisions=more money.

There are HUGE money involved in HIV stidies and in HIV 'industry'. Companies get easily money when they are collecting it to stop HIV.

Yes, I am really sad for this news because I am against genital slicing but I am also really scared...what do you think will happen in Africa...where people believe that if you have sex(=rape)a virgin, you are safe from HIV. Circumcised men will not use condoms since circumcision is advertised as barrier against HIV. We are looking bigger numbers in HIV and who will pay the prize? Women and children!

And how much easier and more effective would be provide education and condoms? Million times more effective! But there are factors and powers in Africa that do not allow that to happen.

So where that leaves everything? Education bad - genital cutting OK?

It is sad sad sad day that we are still this cruel and uncivilised spieces.
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#29 of 48 Old 03-29-2007, 02:55 AM
 
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Did the article ever actually say to circ babies? All I saw it say were MEN. It's way different for a man to choose to circ then to inflict it on a baby routinely. So I would just counterargue that it's arguing that GROWN MEN should decide if it's beneficial, not that RIC is advocated.

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#30 of 48 Old 03-29-2007, 06:38 AM
 
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Did the article ever actually say to circ babies? All I saw it say were MEN. It's way different for a man to choose to circ then to inflict it on a baby routinely. So I would just counterargue that it's arguing that GROWN MEN should decide if it's beneficial, not that RIC is advocated.
From the WHO announcement:

Quote:
A significant public health impact is likely to occur most rapidly if male circumcision services are first provided where the incidence of heterosexually acquired HIV infection is high. It was therefore recommended that countries with high prevalence, generalized heterosexual HIV epidemics that currently have low rates of male circumcision consider urgently scaling up access to male circumcision services. A more rapid public health benefit will be achieved if age groups at highest risk of acquiring HIV are prioritized, although providing male circumcision services to younger age groups will also have public health impact over the longer term. Modelling studies suggest that male circumcision in sub-Saharan Africa could prevent 5.7 million new cases of HIV infection and 3 million deaths over 20 years.

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