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#121 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 01:23 PM
 
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If her kids are in England, I totally pity them.

Missing a crucial part of their penis AND all their friends will be intact and know what they're missing. Their friends will also know that none of the crazy "health reasons" are true, because everyone has a foreskin and knows that the "health reasons" just don't exist.

Your kids are going to grow up and bite you bigtime, lady. Better start preparing your excuses now for why you carried out a competely unnecessary operation on them when they were too young to resist, and why you reduced their sexual pleasure for no reason at all in an almost completely intact culture.

And I don't believe you know lots of mothers who are wishing they'd had it done at birth. That just doesn't happen over here, it's not even on the radar unless it's for a religious reason. One paper shows that about 3.8% of English boys end up being circ'd by their 15th birthday (just over 12,000 a year, most of which aren't necessary, it's less than 2% in Scandinavia)
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...l/321/7264/792
you must be singularly unfortunate with your friends?
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#122 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by paula.c View Post
Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.
England..you mean Great Britain.

Oh.

Please tell me what christian group in Europe supports circumcision. I have studied this issue for years and so far I have not been able to find any. (asking this all seriousness)

Suuuuuuuuure there are lot of moms in England who wish they had circumcised their son...right Daisy?
This truly was news to me.

As far as why we are upset?

You take an innocent,helpless baby. You strap the baby down and slice his genitals. Painfully. Removing the most sensitive part of his body.

Your son will experience the circumcision 'results' of his life due to your decission. He will carry scar tissue, his glans will be dry and numb because it is exposed. He will never experience normal sexlife.

That's for starters.

How would you feel if someone had removed part of your genitals when you were born?

---------------------------

(ps. Did I understood right?Am I getting visitors? Tea or coffee?)
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#123 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 02:11 PM
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hiplease dont get offencive and jump all over me but I really dont see why having the fore skin removed is such a wrong choice I dont feel bad for the choice I made with me boys, I had tem done at borth and they see my sisters little boy naked and they dont really see or care about the difference I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better. I now many moms who have wished they cir years a go with there kids after finding that there little one has an issue and now due to medical issue it as to come off.

Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.

Paula,
here is a very good post "I'm pregnant"; some pregnant girl had posted it a while ago and she got TONS of responses with alot of good info and links. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=604463
Please read this thread, it'd be much faster then searching the same info spread all over the place. This post is a GREAT sorce of info.
Also you can see that foreskin is actually what protects against HIV http://www.cirp.org/news/healthday2007-03-05/ .
Hope you change your mind about circ once you learn the truth about it...
yulia.
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#124 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by paula.c View Post
hiplease dont get offencive and jump all over me but I really dont see why having the fore skin removed is such a wrong choice I dont feel bad for the choice I made with me boys, I had tem done at borth and they see my sisters little boy naked and they dont really see or care about the difference I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better. I now many moms who have wished they cir years a go with there kids after finding that there little one has an issue and now due to medical issue it as to come off.

Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.
I've yet to meet anyone IRL who regretted leaving their son intact (not having his foreskin cut off) and I live in the US. The circumcision rate where I live in the US is less than 30%. I only have one friend who had her sons circumcised and her youngest son is 13 years old - she also wasn't given a choice in the matter - she was married to an abusive man who insisted it be done. She went with her youngest son to see it done (she wasn't allowed to go with her two older boys) and says that his screams still haunt her today, and that she regrets it very much.

My husband was very fortunate to have parents who left his genitals alone. He and I are both very grateful to them that they left this decision (whether or not to have cosmetic surgery performed on the most sensitive part of his body) up to HIM since it's HIS body. My husband has never had any infections or issues due to his foreskin and I, quite honestly, have no idea how a penis would even work without a foreskin since it is such an integral, important part of the penis.

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#125 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kxsiven View Post
He will carry scar tissue, his glans will be dry and numb because it is exposed. He will never experience normal sexlife...
that's assuming that your son circ was perfectly performed. if not, in addition to all above, he might be one of the unlucky men with tight or painful erections, hair on the shaft and much more...

by the way, did you know that circ started as cure for masturbation? yep, it's no fun to masturbate a dry (since circ'd men have difficulty masturbating or having sex without lubricant because moisturizing the glans is one of the foreskin's functions), half sensitive (since once exposed, the skin of the glans gets thick and rough and looses sensitivity due to being rubbed against underwear, similar to our feet's skin) penis the most sensitive part of which--foreskin--was removed anyway...
Catholic schools used to do it as a punishment to the boys who were caught masturbating. They would hold them and circ without any pain relieve: …

I can only imagine how hard it’s for you to learned the truth about what was done to your son(s). But since it is the truth, it’s still worth while learning.
yulia.
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#126 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
that's assuming that your son circ was perfectly performed. if not, in addition to all above, he might be one of the unlucky men with tight or painful erections, hair on the shaft and much more...
The 'perfect' circumcision doesn't exist. There are just greater & lesser degrees of harm (as far as 'too tight' & 'hair on the shaft' goes, I'd say those repercussions are more common than not).
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#127 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 07:10 PM
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The 'perfect' circumcision doesn't exist. There are just greater & lesser degrees of harm (as far as 'too tight' & 'hair on the shaft' goes, I'd say those repercussions are more common than not).
I didn't say 'perfect' circumcision, I said perfectly performed which can be done, but that still means alot of harm, just less than in circ with complications...
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#128 of 136 Old 05-21-2007, 11:56 PM
 
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i know, i just meant that no matter how you slice it, you will end up with 'complications', greater or lesser. too tight, bent, hairy shaft... hell, dry glans? tell me who had a circ who didn't get a dried-up glans . kwim?

so many men and women don't even understand that these things aren't normal. (with sexual ignorance paraded as a virtue by a circ'd culture, it's not surprising.)

i'm not really arguing with you, just making a point.
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#129 of 136 Old 05-24-2007, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
No I don't get it.

I'll never get it.

How anyone could do that to their child. It's not just any child, it's her best friend's child, whom she fought hard to save, who she knows very well - and now he's about to start asking questions. It's not like she's talking to some random kid off the street. (Although I'd probably still tell him exactly what happens to some children, without making it personal, since he's already asking).

His parents are probably going to lie to him, she cared about him enough to fight for him before he was born, why shouldn't she talk to him now? If he asks, why shouldn't he get the truth? Why should she refuse to say anything to him about circumcision because it will give his parents some awkward questions to answer?
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Originally Posted by kxsiven View Post
I come from different culture so talking about genitals is not a tabu. Not even with kids. Genitals are just one part of the body, like ears or nose.

If a child comes to me with a question, I'll answer it age properly ofcourse. It is quite a difference when talking with 5 years old compared to 15 years old.

But I sure heck will say to a child that all are born with foreskins and why your parents decided to let doctors take it off from you - I have no idea, you should ask your parents.If a teenage boy came to ask - I would also inform him about restoring.

Children are smart. They notice things, they think. And they certainly should not be treated as some property we can shape,cut and mold however we want to.


some people are actually so close that they parent each others kids without batting a eye that it is NOT their blood i look at her kids as my own always have always will i have NEVER yet said "go ask your mom" i think if i said that they would look at me like i am nuts: and KNOW something is wrong i posted this to talk to see if it had come up to others and see how they handled it I WILL SAY THIS TO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF AND WHEN THIS COMES UP........ i WILL NOT LIE to this boy WE ARE ALL CREATED THE SAME and that is not how he was made there is no way i am going to tell him that is the way he was born i would NOT LIE TO HIM OR MY BLOOD DC how can you look at your child and lie to their face???? how cold are you?? i beleive that my childern are humans and i must and will treat them like they are equals to me not less

WHY ARE PEOPLE WHO CUT, TORTURE, BREAK WHAT IS NOT BROKEN, TRY TO FIX WHAT IS 100% WORKING IN THIS PART OF MDC???? THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO DO THAT TO THEIR DC AND FOR THOSE WHO DID IT BUT NOW KNOW IT IS WRONG
: sorry but this is just what i think and feel......................
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#130 of 136 Old 05-24-2007, 02:07 PM
 
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So let me get this right.....protecting a penis is more important than the child's self esteem and self image.

What I get is that it's more important to convince a child that their circ-penis is a horrible thing their parent did to them......and have them go through life feeling bad about something they could never have controlled to begin with.

If you are so concerened with the child's well being why does not the fact that they are children with feelings and delicate self-esteems not important?. I get the feeling that to disagree with any of you ladies is not an option......I too felt until now these posts were about being open to varied ways of parenting....but I see now some of you are very "fundamentalist" in your views about what is good parenting and what is bad parenting.....I'd say this attitude is very much similar to any maintream group I might encounter and also do not feel like continuing the conversation. Not many OPEN minds here, just rants and raves.

Miriam
Have you considered that there in an inner knowing that abused children have that what they have experinced is a violation? It takes a lot of parental or social conditioning to get most kids to invalidate their inner knowing.

Perhaps kindly and comapssionately, without unnecessary graphic detail, validating the truth of their mutilation would do more for their self-esteem than going along with the "it's all OK" line.




Quote:
Originally Posted by angelcat
You don't get it. The other person simply shouldn't be discussing HIS genital with him. It's not your business.
We're talking about discussing his abuse with him. It's a pity that his parents chose to perpetrate that level of abuse on his genitals, but it's really not about the genitals. It's about the violation. He deserves to hear compassionate truth about it.
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#131 of 136 Old 05-24-2007, 02:29 PM
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We're talking about discussing his abuse with him. It's a pity that his parents chose to perpetrate that level of abuse on his genitals, but it's really not about the genitals. It's about the violation. He deserves to hear compassionate truth about it.
Exactly!
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#132 of 136 Old 05-29-2007, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well he was here this weekend now he is covering himself he see's my son's and i think he see's that his is not the same and is shy about asking i dont want to be the one to bring it up i want him to be the one to bring it up i let him know that it is fine and he dont need to hide (he covers his penis with both hands) before i hear it i was putting him to bathe
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#133 of 136 Old 05-29-2007, 09:30 PM
 
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well he was here this weekend now he is covering himself he see's my son's and i think he see's that his is not the same and is shy about asking i dont want to be the one to bring it up i want him to be the one to bring it up i let him know that it is fine and he dont need to hide (he covers his penis with both hands) before i hear it i was putting him to bathe
I know you want him to bring it up, but maybe this is his way of bringing it up? Maybe you could casually ask him why he's hiding, especially since it sounds like he's never done it before. That might be the nudge he needs to actually voice his feelings...

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#134 of 136 Old 05-29-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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I would be honest but gentle. I would never give him the line that all penises are different, it is true but that is NOT why his penis looks different than an intact one. You can spare his feelings without lying to him.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#135 of 136 Old 05-30-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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#136 of 136 Old 06-03-2007, 10:13 PM
 
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you need to be very carefull to make sure that neither of the boys feel that they are different. it will do no good at this point to let your friends son know that he is missing something. this has not come up for us yet, but i am dredding the idea that the day my son realizes that he is the only one in our family who is intact i may not be there to mitigate the responses of my pro-circ. family...
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