I was just interviewed for an article about Circ! - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 12:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by baybee View Post
<<(Religious freedom ring a bell?)>>

Religious freedom does not permit child abuse. There was a case of a
Native American group who practised a tradition of biting teen aged boys
on the arms. It was a part of a religious coming of age ceremony. They were reported and it went to court. They had to stop the practise.

If there was a religious group that advocated animal torture or child sacrifice, none of that would be allowed. It's estimated that 200 baby boys in the U.S. are sacrificed due to genital mutilation every year. This is why we need to end it. All the beautiful traditions of religious ceremonies which welcome new members of the tribe can be kept. Cutting kids' genitals has no place in today's society.
That was really well said!
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#92 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 03:17 AM
 
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Here's what Van Lewis (of the Ashley Montague Petition) wrote to the Ledger:
(he gave me permission to share it with this forum)

"I thought this article on the decreasing popularity of circumcision (among
adults; 100% of babies have always vigorously opposed it) was very
thoughtfully and competently done. I do wonder why people who want equal
genital protection of the law for all children, not just for girls, were
called "militant", though. It seems to me that supporting the constitutions
of Florida and the United States, and ALL children's moral and
constitutional rights to be protected equally from medically unnecessary
genital alteration (circumcision, cutting, mutilation, whatever you want to
call it is ok with me; there is no word bad enough for it in my book) and
from the permanent damage and further risks - including death - to which we
subject all children we circumcise, without their lawful, informed consent,
should be called "fair" or "patriotic" or "law-abiding" or "intelligent" or
"humane" or "loving" something like that. "Militant" comes from the same
root as "military". The military is society's organ of violence. Calling
intactivists "militant" accuses us violence. But it is not intactivists who
are doing the violence. We are the ones opposing violence. It is the
circumcisers who are committing the violence, sexual violence at that,
against babies, for crying out loud. Circumcision is where sex and violence
first meet, and marry. Call the mutilationists "militant", not the people
trying to stop them from committing their unnecessary and despicable
violence against babies. Pick on somebody your own size, circumcisers. Leave
babies full-sized, not circumcised. We kill some children by circumcising
them. I have a long and incomplete list of names of children and others
killed by circumcision. What are parents trying to achieve by circumcising
their children that's worth risking their children's lives for? Does anybody
know? To me it's a great mystery. Despite minor glitches like the "militant"
word choice, however, this article was by far better than most of the trash
I've read in the U.S. press on the subject over the last 40+ years. Thanks,
Mr. White."

Foreskins are for KEEPS!
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#93 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 09:32 AM
 
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Just heard that Gary's email has been flooded by people who are both in support and up in arms over the article. For some reason, it's been pushed up to the top spot on the website again.

And, on a more personal note, the young man (he is 19) who bought a car from me a couple of months ago called me today to tell me he saw the article in the paper. He just called to tell me THANK YOU! He said he's intact and appreciated hearing my story.

My mother has gotten several emails, some positive, some negative; my husband got a thumbs up at a meeting at work; my sister had phone calls from irate friends ("How dare she say I MUTILATED my son!!!"); the birth center is thrilled for the plug.

Thanks, all for the great discussions and the support. Please feel free to sticky this, or whatever to help the cause!
Amanda - Rob reports that this was the main conversation at the church office yesterday. The old ladies are worried about Zain - saying that it wasn't fair to him to be so public about this. Rob assured them that 1) Zain is just fine and 2) You'd never agree to the article without checking with Zain first.

My "odd, creepy, and cruel" quote upset my family. I think they (mother and sister) felt personally attacked for their choices. I'm past the point of personal with them. They are both done having babies. It's such a bigger picture than that!
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#94 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 10:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Serenagirl View Post
There was an article about FGM in our city's newspaper. I wrote a letter to the editor about my feelings on Male Circumcision. It was published and won letter of the week . Two years later, I get a phone call from a producer making a documentary on circumcision. She wanted an interview. Keep the letters going to the editors and it will snowball from there.


_____________________________
Serena wife to Nic. mom to DS1 , DS2: and DD:

Way to go!!!! Great job.
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#95 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 10:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by baybee View Post
<<(Religious freedom ring a bell?)>>

It's estimated that 200 baby boys in the U.S. are sacrificed due to genital mutilation every year.
I think that's supposed to be 200,000?
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#96 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 10:25 AM
 
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Oh, I meant the number who die as a direct result of circumcision.
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#97 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
Amanda - Rob reports that this was the main conversation at the church office yesterday. The old ladies are worried about Zain - saying that it wasn't fair to him to be so public about this. Rob assured them that 1) Zain is just fine and 2) You'd never agree to the article without checking with Zain first.

My "odd, creepy, and cruel" quote upset my family. I think they (mother and sister) felt personally attacked for their choices. I'm past the point of personal with them. They are both done having babies. It's such a bigger picture than that!
I definitely spoke to Zain. In fact, he was so wonderful about it. He said, "Well, maybe another mom will choose not to do it from this."

He also asked for no pic, and I thought that was totally reasonable!

I can see how your mom and sis would be upset. But, you're so right. This wasn't about them. At all. And, did your mom really make the choice in full awareness? My mom said that there was no mention at all to her when her boys were circed.
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#98 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 11:37 AM
 
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I can see how your mom and sis would be upset. But, you're so right. This wasn't about them. At all. And, did your mom really make the choice in full awareness? My mom said that there was no mention at all to her when her boys were circed.
Mom says she had no idea. But, it seems like she could have. I mean, she went against the grain and figured out how to nurse preschoolers. You'd think she could have asked some questions. And my brother was the 3rd child - so she was already deep in the parenting thing at that point - LLL, etc. I don't know. Odd.
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#99 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 01:00 PM
 
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I thought Amanda was great on the video, which is very, very good for our cause. In general the article was about as good as we are going to get from the mainstream media. They have to worry about backlash, both religious and non-religious. We all need to respect each other's perspectives. Fundamental intactivism has its points, but is likely to turn off a number of parents who will then just go ahead and circ. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar. We can't save the entire world in one day. But we can chip away at the mountain one article and one person at a time. Eventually the mountain will no longer block our view. In my estimation it is particularly important to appear reasonable right now when any day we may expect one or more physician's organizations to recommend universal circ because of the AIDS studies. Our increasing emphasis on the damage caused by circ will be much to our favor. While the sexasnatureintendedit site is a bit strong, after having reviewed it in detail, I think it is correct as to the function of the foreskin and its importance to both the male and the female. This is where we need to be placing the emphasis IMO.
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#100 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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Dave2GA
Always appreciate your input on these forums. Thanks for all you do to
help end the suffering.
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#101 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
Let me ask you this. Are you opposed to female circumcision? For the sake of religious freedom this practice would be okay to preform. So why is it against the law to preform female circumcion? And yes I've been following very closely on this thread.
I agree w/ you. There's a good number of people in countries like the U.S, Canada and other areas who would love to circumcise their daughter if it weren't illegal. In fact, some try to take back to their homeland to do it. It gets media coverage every so often.

It comes down to genital integrity for BOTH. Like the BoysToo.com website says. I would support this bill in both countries.
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#102 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 03:39 PM
 
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I definitely spoke to Zain. In fact, he was so wonderful about it. He said, "Well, maybe another mom will choose not to do it from this."

He also asked for no pic, and I thought that was totally reasonable!

I can see how your mom and sis would be upset. But, you're so right. This wasn't about them. At all. And, did your mom really make the choice in full awareness? My mom said that there was no mention at all to her when her boys were circed.
Oh, that's very reasonable. I'm proud of him, too! : Hey, can the online version be reposted in newsgroups (Usenet)? I would NOT post it in "alt.circumcision" because of the circumfetishers over there. But I could post it in multiple ones like "soc.men" and "alt.parenting-solutions", etc. May I please? I might even post it as a singular in "alt.circumcision" in the hopes a visitor there may wade through all the expected garbage posts from Jake W. and get educated.
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#103 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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I am just catching up here and saw the interview and read the article. I just wanted to say great job and I hope your words make a difference!
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#104 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Wow that is so comforting! Your entire post is good but this is one quote is a gem.
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#105 of 106 Old 07-11-2007, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, that's very reasonable. I'm proud of him, too! : Hey, can the online version be reposted in newsgroups (Usenet)? I would NOT post it in "alt.circumcision" because of the circumfetishers over there. But I could post it in multiple ones like "soc.men" and "alt.parenting-solutions", etc. May I please? I might even post it as a singular in "alt.circumcision" in the hopes a visitor there may wade through all the expected garbage posts from Jake W. and get educated.
I think this would be fine. Is it just another messageboard? I confess to not being clear of most of what you said.
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#106 of 106 Old 07-12-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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I'll try to describe it as best I can. Yes, newsgroups (Usenet) is like one gigantic global message board forum. There's ones that are text-only, and some that are used for posting pictures, videos (binaries). You either format your Outlook Express, or Netscape web browser to read and post. An altenative is Google Groups, that not only lets you do that, but actually ARCHIVES all posts as far back as the early-'90s [the downside: you can only post to 5 newsgroups at one time, there's a cap of how many posts in a certain time period)! Posts also appear in Google searches.

---

alt.circumcision:
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.ci.../topics?lnk=sg

misc.kids.pregnancy:
http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.k.../topics?lnk=sg

alt.parenting.solutions:
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.pa.../topics?lnk=sg

misc.kids:
http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.kids/topics?lnk=rgh

soc.men:
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.men/topics

---

Because of the circumfetishers in alt.circumcision, I would post your story separately, because those who respond would post the messages in the other newsgroups and quite frankly, the circumfetishes act childish and tend to distract from the main goal-- education. But I would post it separately so those who ONLY go to alt.circumcision, could still get educated, even though there will be some childish "go clean your gross disgusting foreskin" comments will be needed to be waded through. :
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