So sad... 9mo DN getting circed Friday - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I posted in December when my nephew was born how happy I was that Medicaid here in TX had stopped paying for circ, and as a result DN wasn't circ'd at birth.

Well now he's almost 9mo, and I just found out SIL is taking him on Friday to get circ'd!! I'm so sad, upset, really just hurting for this poor babe. There's just no changing her mind, even though her DH (my brother) is INTACT, and all of my family has been firmly against it. She just doesn't care.

She has 3 older boys, all circ'd too. :

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#2 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:21 PM
 
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how can she have a surgical procedure w/out her DH's consent?

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#3 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:22 PM
 
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That is so sad. : Is your brother also in favor of this?
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#4 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:23 PM
 
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That is so sick!!! What is her excuse for doing this mutilation?
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#5 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:36 PM
 
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That's awful! Is this something she decided by herself, or is your brother supporting this surgery? I'm so sorry for your DN :
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#6 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tsfairy View Post
There's just no changing her mind, even though her DH (my brother) is INTACT, and all of my family has been firmly against it. She just doesn't care.

This is flat out prejudice behavior! No doubt she is doing this because of "Looks" right? All her other ds's are circ'ed so she isn't use to seeing the male intact anatomy in its child state. Her dh can "look" circumcised when he is aroused and it "appeals" to her (without the scar of course). But to see that on a child! She probably isn't conscientiously thinking, "I want my kids to look aroused", but it stems from what most Americans are culturally conditioned when they think of what a child's penis should look like.

If this is truly the case, ask her in one e-mail - "Are you doing this because of the way it looks?" She says, "Yes.. "

You say, "Its time to show you some art!" along with this link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZxTXt3q8SmQ "Its Beautiful"

I'm so so sad:
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#7 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 03:13 PM
 
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: This would be grounds for divorce. Your brother should go and loudly protest , maybe threaten to sue.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#8 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 03:44 PM
 
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Um, why is your brother not protecting his son?
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#9 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Although I realize this may seem over the top, I am saying it because it certainly is something I WOULD DO (even at the expense of risking a relationship with family) if I had a 9 month old nephew about to be circumcised...
I WOULD calmly call the local authorities and explain that you want to intervene legally as an advocate for your very young nephew who is about to be subjected to a criminal sexual assault. Tell them you would like them to protect your nephew from this non-therapeutic and damaging procedure.
and explain the reason why MEDICAID NO LONGER covers this awful cosmetic surgery...
NOW...
you would definitely expect at the very least, some resistance from the local authorities...
even more so, you might just as well expect them to think you are some crazy woman (and I would have to assume you will be talking to a majority of circ'd males...sensitive topic for them, whether they may admit or not...KWIM?) that is why I say present your case calmly and with scientific facts.

Understand THEY will more than likely NOT support you and probably WILL NOT do anything at all...

BUT...
1)You can say to your nephew one day that you did EVERYTHING you could that was in your power to stop this
2)You can confront your brother and SIL with the strength of your character and tell them you called the police in an attempt to have them intervene.
MAYBE just POSSIBLY they will think "Jeesh, she is really so passionate about this that she would try to have local law enforcement get involved to protect my son..."... it may very well drive them away from you, but it JUST MAY OPEN THEIR EYES to what a crime it is!
It is a risk I WOULD ABSOLUTELY, MOST ASSUREDLY be willing to take.
I understand if some would think I was being over zealous... but this goes back to another thread about certain forms of activism being too harsh...

This is not just some stranger you are trying to educate. This is blood.
I personally would do whatever it takes, within legal parameters, up until the last minute, to try to change what you may now see as inevitable.
Try to get your brother to protest against this!
I wish you the best and will be thinking of your nephew as Friday nears.
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#10 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 04:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreskin friendly View Post
Although I realize this may seem over the top, I am saying it because it certainly is something I WOULD DO (even at the expense of risking a relationship with family) if I had a 9 month old nephew about to be circumcised...
I WOULD calmly call the local authorities and explain that you want to intervene legally as an advocate for your very young nephew who is about to be subjected to a criminal sexual assault. Tell them you would like them to protect your nephew from this non-therapeutic and damaging procedure.
and explain the reason why MEDICAID NO LONGER covers this awful cosmetic surgery...
NOW...
you would definitely expect at the very least, some resistance from the local authorities...
even more so, you might just as well expect them to think you are some crazy woman (and I would have to assume you will be talking to a majority of circ'd males...sensitive topic for them, whether they may admit or not...KWIM?) that is why I say present your case calmly and with scientific facts.

Understand THEY will more than likely NOT support you and probably WILL NOT do anything at all...

BUT...
1)You can say to your nephew one day that you did EVERYTHING you could that was in your power to stop this
2)You can confront your brother and SIL with the strength of your character and tell them you called the police in an attempt to have them intervene.
MAYBE just POSSIBLY they will think "Jeesh, she is really so passionate about this that she would try to have local law enforcement get involved to protect my son..."... it may very well drive them away from you, but it JUST MAY OPEN THEIR EYES to what a crime it is!
It is a risk I WOULD ABSOLUTELY, MOST ASSUREDLY be willing to take.
I understand if some would think I was being over zealous... but this goes back to another thread about certain forms of activism being too harsh...

This is not just some stranger you are trying to educate. This is blood.
I personally would do whatever it takes, within legal parameters, up until the last minute, to try to change what you may now see as inevitable.
Try to get your brother to protest against this!
I wish you the best and will be thinking of your nephew as Friday nears.

Do EVERYTHING in your power! If the honey fails, use the vinegar.

There is still hope for him! Please, don't give up.
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#11 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 05:03 PM
 
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I agree with foreskin friendly. I would want to be able to say to my (intact or no) dn that I did everything I could think of.

Mamma to 3! nurslings Emma (4) Daniel (3) and our new baby Beth! 10/10/09
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#12 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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I agree, this is just plain sick and twisted.

Btw, who is paying for it now? I hope it's not Medicaid under the guise of a phimosis diagnosis or some other foreskin "problem."
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#13 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 05:54 PM
 
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Does medicaid not cover RIC in Texas?

Anyway, OP, it's not Friday yet, surely your brother can't let this happen!
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#14 of 47 Old 09-04-2007, 10:26 PM
 
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Is your brother acknowledged legally as his father? Have him contact arclaw immediately! He can likely get an injunction and sue for joint medical custody.
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#15 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the replies... I wasn't sure I wanted to make any waves, but you've all given me the courage to try to do something about this.

So I talked to my brother this evening. His stance was initially that he was just letting SIL do it, because she wanted to (sort of the opposite of what most people experience where the dad wants to circ but mom doesn't, but gives dad the choice.) He also said that he didn't think DN would remember it anyway because "don't they knock him out?" I told him that no I think they only use a local anesthetic, and then I related a story to him - my DH was "medically" circed at around 1yo, and it's not only his first memory, he remembers it CLEARLY and it has affected him his whole life. I think hearing this made some impact on my brother.

I also related to him that I think it's mutilation, akin to abuse, and that there is a reason that Medicaid stopped covering it. He took this pretty well, and said he'd talk to SIL, but also asked me to call her as well. I'm really nervous about calling her, but I'm planning to do so tomorrow... she and I get along pretty well but we're not close. So we'll see how it goes.

Oh and to answer a few questions - yes he's legally the father, they live together with all of their kids. Also I *think* her mother is paying for it. And yes, as of at least last December, Texas Medicaid no longer pays for RIC.

Mama to two crazy boys (8/05 & 9/07) and happy wife to one wonderful hubby.
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#16 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 03:28 AM
 
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Dear tsfairy,

So sorry for your frustrations with this...perhaps you can direct her to the threads on this posting so she can see for herself what emotions this brings up for so many people. Sometimes it just takes hearing information from objective sources to see things in a new light.

It breaks my heart for this little guy. I can't stand to think of any child suffering ANYTHING at the hands of ANYONE! I'll pray for her to have a change of heart before Friday. :

-Toni, wife, mom, 4 beautiful children.
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#17 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 03:30 AM
 
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Also, maybe you could direct her to watch some of the circumcision videos on YouTube.com. That, in and of itself, should convince her that this is pure and simple mutilation and torture for any baby. Remind her that if she can't watch someone else's baby on the internet get circumcised, why in heaven's name would she subject her own helpless baby to this treatment???!!!

GEESH!

-Toni
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#18 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 04:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsfairy View Post
He also said that he didn't think DN would remember it anyway because "don't they knock him out?" I told him that no I think they only use a local anesthetic, and then I related a story to him - my DH was "medically" circed at around 1yo, and it's not only his first memory, he remembers it CLEARLY
Over 6 mo these days they usually will use general anethisia, so don't play this point up too much. You can point out that anasthisia carries risks if they will use it.

Even If DN doesn't remember the proceedure by now he has formed a body image for himself that includes an intact penis. He also may remember the post-operative pain.

Quote:
Also I *think* her mother is paying for it.
That's got to be hundereds of dollars for something DN would almost certainly say no to if asked. Think what they could better spend it on. Invest it for colledge, a trip to disney for the whole family (a memory one would much rather have,) whatever she would be motivated by.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
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#19 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 04:28 AM
 
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So is your brother willing to do what it takes or let SIL do what she wants?

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#20 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 11:37 AM
 
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If you think you are making headway with your brother...ask him to at least consider postponing the appointment (or ask the SIL)...

In the meantime...
Ask them to please watch a full video on a circumcision (you can easily find one (unfortunately) on youtube, or come to my myspace, etc...)

And in a previous post, someone suggested you direct the parents to view this thread.... very good idea, I think. Although, I would use that as a secondary approach. First, the visual - video - I think would be most effective...that seems to just shock people because they start to realize, if they didn't before, how painful, terrifying and invasive the procedure is on the infant. (Make sure there is sound)...

It is awful and sure to convince any mama (or at the very least plant a seed of doubt about how "beneficial" circ may be) who may have otherwise been ignorant to the damaging effects.
Before my father told me how he thought circ was "barbaric" ( I will never forget that moment...I was confused at the time...and it prompted me to research further), I never knew how horrible it really was. When I watched an actual circ being done, I was mortified. Seeing it and hearing about it ARE MOST DEFINITELY two different things and sure to have two completely different effects on the recipient/viewer. (At least that was the case for me)...

You can also tell your brother that receiving a PDNB (Penile Dorsal Nerve Block) seems to be almost, if not just as painful as the actual procedure.

Regardless, it is most important for them, for anyone, everyone to come to understand that we do not have THE RIGHT to decide how to alter our children's bodies. (This is the most common, and first mistake people make!)


Do you live near them?
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#21 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 02:31 PM
 
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i don't have anything to add, just wanted to give you some support in talking to your SIL. urge her to at the very least, postpone the suregery so she can do some more research.

this is just so unthinkable.....

~helen~ mama to 5 yo twins jonas and micah and my 2 yo baby boy eli
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#22 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 02:44 PM
 
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I don't understand. Why does your SIL want this done when her husband, your brother is intact? Why is your brother allowing his son to go through something he wouldn't put himself through? Your brother needs to take a stand and take one now.
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#23 of 47 Old 09-05-2007, 08:39 PM
 
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I hope the SIL doesn't want her DH to cut his testicles off as well to make it look better, or he is in trouble, if he still has any...this makes me SICK:
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#24 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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Tomorrow is Friday!!! Whats the update on your SIL?
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#25 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 01:45 PM
 
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I don't understand. Why does your SIL want this done when her husband, your brother is intact? Why is your brother allowing his son to go through something he wouldn't put himself through? Your brother needs to take a stand and take one now.
Exactly. Why isn't the father doing everything to stop this. He can show up at the appointment if it comes to that and tell the Dr he refuses to allow this to happen to his son.
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#26 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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I get annoyed when I read stories like this and see that nobody is really doing anything about it. Not you nor your brother. - Unless you've done absolutely everything possible to try and stop it from happening, I can't really begin to care if you're sad.
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#27 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 04:53 PM
 
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I get annoyed when I read stories like this and see that nobody is really doing anything about it. Not you nor your brother. - Unless you've done absolutely everything possible to try and stop it from happening, I can't really begin to care if you're sad.
:

OP - I think all the previous posters had some good advice. Do whatever you can to at least get them to hold off while you can convince them...

I like the idea of telling SIL of all the other cool things her and her family could do with the $$$... might peak her interest a tad, no?
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#28 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 06:36 PM
 
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I get annoyed when I read stories like this and see that nobody is really doing anything about it. Not you nor your brother. - Unless you've done absolutely everything possible to try and stop it from happening, I can't really begin to care if you're sad.
Wow, that was harsh.

She's called her brother, she was going to call her sister in law. We don't know what she has done since her last update. What do you want her to do....go and kidnap her DN?
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#29 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 08:04 PM
 
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Wow, that was harsh.

She's called her brother, she was going to call her sister in law. We don't know what she has done since her last update. What do you want her to do....go and kidnap her DN?
Yes I think that kind of attack is completely uncalled for. The OP is doing a lot, but she can only do so much - unfortunately circ is legal and its not her kid.
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#30 of 47 Old 09-06-2007, 08:25 PM
 
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Good luck.

I failed at saving my nephew from my SIL's ignorance.

She even lied and said that she went in with him and he didn't even cry. I flat out don't believe her and I said as much at the time.

I hope you have a better result.

Trin.
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