Does Your Circumcised Husband feel that RIC was a valid 'parental choice'? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 80 Old 09-26-2007, 05:17 PM
 
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I'm an intact male and is set in stone, future-sons WILL be left intact. About the only thing that would make it otherwise would be adoption of an already circumcised baby/toddler/boy... and even then, explanation and education is in order.

It most certainly is not a parental choice. The owner of the body is the one to give consent for any alterations and even then, something that will happen as a legal adult; not a moment sooner.

You're probably all tired of hearing my story, but for any newcomers, welcome, and here I go again: I'm a 32-year-old GWM from Canada. I met my now-ex-partner online in June 2000 at age 24. He's a GBM from Louisiana at the age of 18. I am intact and he is circumcised. Throughout our relationship, I think (((THE))) thing that we fought about most-- the one issue that could raise our passion level-- was MGM/RIC. [Even as best friends, we STILL do, though, not as often, as it bugs him when I bring it up out of the blue for no reason and it doesn't get us much anywhere.] He believes a lot of what men in circumcising countries believe-- "it's a parent's choice", "(the operation) it's no big deal". We fought about it, yet I had education on my side. I did all the facts. He did none. To him, it's just a thing that happens and doesn't feel a need to research it.

When we met for the first time in-person, it was a year and a few months after we met online and he came here. One thing we did do was sit down and watch the stellar "Whose Body, Whose Rights" documentary. It literally scared him straight. ( no pun intended!). He couldn't watch the actual brief infant circumcision scenes shown [that I can understand; not everyone can]. He left to back home agreeing w/ me that it's... just... not... right! All bliss from here on end? OH, NO!

He goes back and........ well, naturally gets comfortable w/ his cut status and reverts. BUT! Keep in mind he tells me this-- apparently BEFORE I told him I was against it, he sincerely wouldn't care either (leave them intact, mutilate them). It wasn't until I made an issue of it, and said it was a mutilation and blah, blah, blah that he got on the defensive. I can understand how he could do that. It's not easy for a man to accept he was violated.

He mentions him being tired about talking about this throughout the course of our relationship, but it's only because I felt "unsettled" that this issue was unsettled, that was the reason I'd bring it up from time to time. I guess I felt a need to get him on-board as a true intactivist for me to finally be able to let it go.

But like I said earlier, I have education on my side. He hasn't researched the issue and stated strongly he doesn't have the desire to learn. Well, um... okay (?). : I guess for now, I can let it slide. He's not in a position to have kids right now.

Look, one thing I want you to know about him is that he's a VERY LOGICAL man. And I'm therefore, I'm confident that should the issue come up, he WOULD do the research and WOULD come to the logical conclusion that "RIC" is torture to do to an innocent unconsenting human being!!

He's 7 of 9 kids. His oldest sister-- who already had 2 girls-- was pregnant about maybe 2 years ago and at one point, he told me he mentioned to his sister if she and her husband had researched the issue of circumcision. I'm proud of him for that! : Extremely!

He broke up w/ me in May of 2006 because of the stress of a long-dis and him going to university and all, and I have hope in my heart that our separation (relationship-wise) is just temporary. *sigh* But, even if he ends up having children [he's bi], he WILL research the issue and listen to all my passionate "nagging" and use his logic to keep his future-son (s) intact!!!

I think he knows I'm right and is just so damn stubborn to admit it! God love him!!!!

P.S. His father is intact and has his first 2 brothers were left intact. Then there's a circumcised brother, him (circ'd) and a circ'd younger brother). He admits he's curious about why some aren't and some are. His mom lost a battle to cancer a year ago : and their dad is in a nursing home w/ Parkinsons. : : The answer may never be known.

Thank you for reading my most epic post ever, and letting me give my 2 cents!
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#62 of 80 Old 09-26-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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well I can't offer up my Hubby's opinion on this one since he is not cir'd and most definatly does not believe in RIC.

I can offer my cir'd brothers opinion though.. and he does not believe it is a parental right. He told me he would not circ his son when he has children.

Sarah
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#63 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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My dh does not appreciate being circ'ed, but he does not resent his parents. They are the type to truly believe that whatever a doctor says should be done is *the* thing to be done. I'm sure if given more information about it, they would feel terrible about what was done and we don't want them to go through a guilt trip. They are very respectful of our parenting decisions in other areas so I don't think they would take issue with us having intact sons.

Dh does not believe in RIC and does not want it done to his children. I <3 him!

Mom to DD ('06) and DS ('08)
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#64 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:41 AM
 
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Circumcision is absolutely NOT a parental choice.

My mother made the decision to circumcise my brothers and I based on the advice given her by her father (who "had" to be circ'd at the age of 12). My Dad was circ'd, but I really have no idea what his thoughts were.

This has been a big issue for me for most of my life, however, I can't say that I am angry at my mother. I know she believed that she was doing the right thing. I am extremely disappointed in her decision, and I wish that she had given it some logical thought - and I wish my grandfather had kept his views to himself. I am very angry at the medical community for "inventing" RIC and perpetuating the practice. They should know better.

I believe that anyone who sees RIC as a valid parental choice is operating with a faulty logic chip. Nature does not make mistakes.
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#65 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:46 AM
 
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well it was like pulling teeth to have this convo but

he thinks in a few decades people will be like, what were we thinking, doing that to boys

he doesnt think government should outlaw it as he doesnt like any government intrusion on parenting that doesnt directly relate to effect on society.

(i tried to dig into this but basically, he doesnt think circing boys effects society negatively or positively, as spanking or neglect does, i dont agree but i get what hes trying to say)

he does think its morally wrong to alter someones body for no medical reason.

and during the convo i educated him on the similarities of FGM and MGM and the sexual side effects of MGM that he seemed opened to what i was saying and learned something.

so. well, its progress, it wont ever be his passion but we will never circ a child and he understands my pov.
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#66 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:55 AM
 
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My DH is circ'ed and very firm that any future son will not be. I guess he thinks its a parental choice as long as the parent chooses NOT TO. When he asked his mom why she decided to circ, she said she didn't remember making the decision, it was just something the hospital did. I'm sure she had to sign something, even back then, but it just shows how thoughtless and routine it really becomes.

: 10/06 : 10/09
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#67 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 03:37 AM
 
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He has said that before.

Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
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#68 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 03:50 AM
 
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No. I've talked to DH about it a few times, he wishes he wasn't circ'ed, and he actually talked to his father about it! His father says that he doesn't even remember being asked or making a decision; it was just what was done at the time and no one ever questioned it. DH isn't angry about it, he understands why it happened but he's not okay with it either and thinks it should have been his choice, not his parent's.

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#69 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 09:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaRabbit View Post
My father-in-law, at the age of 12, circed himself.
is that even possible? I don't know how one could stay conscience at 12 to circ yourself. Wouldn't you pass out from the pain? Or at least be shaking so hard from the pain that you couldn't complete it? I am totally shocked.



in answer to the OP: no

Quote:
Circumcision is not a parental choice. It is a choice stolen from the man at the most vulnerable time in his life and is a violation of his body in the most personal, private and violent way possible.
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#70 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +stella+ View Post
well it was like pulling teeth to have this convo but

he thinks in a few decades people will be like, what were we thinking, doing that to boys
I believe this as well. It's definitely a sea-change in society, I believe, but it may take another generation or two for it to be the default.
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#71 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 10:22 AM
 
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Nope, DH does not believe it is a valid parental choice.

He has never asked his parents, but I think he wants to believe that he was automatically done in the hospital without their consent. I don't think he wants to think that his parents purposely did that to him, but I think he realizes as well that they likely did.

My brother was born 6 years before at the same hospital and circumcised automatically : my father was intact and was happy to be so. My mom told me about it, she was absolutely HORRIFIED at what they had done to my brother (she saw it and couldn't believe it). In fact, he had an infection. :

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

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#72 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:08 PM
 
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I asked DH how he felt...

He doesn't believe that any parent has the right to circumcise their son. When asked about how he feels about his parents doing it to him, he doesn't know why they did it (FIL is intact) and his guess is that maybe they didn't know any better or felt like they had a choice.

I asked him how he feels about being circed and he says he's fine with it, works just fine and he doesn't necessarily miss his foreskin as he doesn't have anything to compare it to, though it would have been nice if they just would have left it alone.
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#73 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:16 PM
 
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DH is so tired of hearing about it...but, I can quote him in saying "I'm glad my parents circ'd me" and "I don't remember it hurting" These were his 2 arguments when I brought it up to him that I didn't want to have our future babies circ'd.

BTW, he has since given up and has agreed to not circ'ing.

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#74 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure he thinks it's a valid choice and he mostly avoids the topic so he doesn't have to acknowledge his own loss or admit that he made a mistake with DS1 . He's a very attached, NFL oriented person in general honest. He's a good lactivist, but not much of an intactavist..

However, he's not procir and there was no way he was have taken DS2 (a healthy homebirth baby) into a germy hospital to be circed.
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#75 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 02:48 PM
 
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My dh refuses to get too deep into this issue. When I first brought it up he had some insecureties about his penis and thought that I was not happy with it b/c he is circd. I made it clear to him that I love him the way he is and I wouldn't change a thing. It does hurt me that this was done to him though and his mother WILL NOT see eye to eye with me on circ. My dh DOES believe that it is a valid parental desicion and if we ever have a boy it will be a huge argument that I WILL NOT give in on. I think with a little education I could change his mind though. I really do think he refuses to look at it too deeply b/c of what was done to him.
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#76 of 80 Old 09-27-2007, 03:01 PM
 
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I think DH pretty much feels -- there are bigger fish to fry then circ or not.

his oppsition to it is as a body modification -- he doesn't like baby girls getting their ears periced either ......

he also feels that, as it is not a medically necessary thing, it is an unnecessary risk to expose a baby / child to a surgical event with the inherent risks, and also to risk the emotional / mental / brain deve effects of the trauma.

However -- he won't debate it or get into it -- it is the least of the parenting things IHO.

Aimee

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#77 of 80 Old 10-01-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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I asked dp, so I thought I'd post it.

He does not think it is a valid parental choice.

However, he does NOT have any negative feelings about being circ'ed. He certainly doesn't resent his parents' decision.

His problem with RIC is that it's causing pain to a baby (even with pain relief, it HAS to hurt for days afterwards), and that it's uncool to choose an unnecessary surgery for another person.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#78 of 80 Old 10-01-2007, 09:37 PM
 
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I agree with subliime.

Unfortunately, my husband is circed and DOES want our sons, if we have any, to be cut as well. He has no reasoning for this other than he's cut and he thinks they should be cut, too. Honestly, I love my husband, but I think this is an absolutely ludicrous reason. He's not one to open up with his feelings, so my personal guess is that he feels he had it done to himself and therefore refuses to admit that something "wrong" was done to him. I don't think he likes the thought that he's been mutilated and feels pretty normal, so it must be a good thing to do to his kids as well.

I have taken a stand here and told him that my sons ABSOLUTELY will NOT be cut.

I have my own feelings I've kept from him as well, I guess. My first time was with my best friend who is intact. It breaks my heart that I can NEVER tell my husband that sex with my best friend was the best I have ever had, that sex with an intact penis, working the way it should is fabulous, and that I have never felt much other than pain with cut penises. I couldn't hurt my hubby's feelings like that, but it's true. I wish all the time that he was intact, which I realize is selfish. I do love him, but why oh WHY couldn't his parents leave him the way he was?

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#79 of 80 Old 10-01-2007, 09:53 PM
 
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My circumcised DH prefers to think about his parents making the decision they thought was best and/or the hospital just doing the circumcision. He did tell me recently that it was "mutilation," though.

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#80 of 80 Old 10-01-2007, 09:56 PM
 
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My DH was circ'ed as an infant. He is content with himself as he is, has no interest in restoring, and doesn't blame his parents, since he was born at a time when RIC was very routine. However, he definitely does not consider RIC a valid parental decision, and is a staunch intactivist. He has often said how glad he is that he could spare his DS's that experience, and will speak up about the issue when it comes up in conversation.
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