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#121 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 10:00 PM
 
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Re: the last post. I also think it depends on the woman's amount of natural lubrication. That sounds so weird, but with my husband, who has a rather tight circ imo, when I am naturally lubricated the sex isnt as uncomfortable than it is with artificial lubrication. So if youre blessed with a lot of lubrication to begin with, circ status would certainly effect you less, (my guess).
However, in having three intact partners in my life time, my personal experience is the gliding motion does have a positive effect on my enjoyment.
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#122 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 10:13 PM
 
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I had to go look up the difference, but based on the pictures I found, DH has a tight circ. So your first assumption doesn't apply to me. Do I orgasm easily? I don't know. I can't really compare...

FTR, I am not trying to "insist" anything. I am just stating my personal experience. I know its limited. I just don't like the absolute language people use to nullify it, or somehow conclude that I am misinformed for having it, and that if I knew better, if society hadn't so crippled from seeing the light, that I would agree with you. :
Ok, so maybe "insist" was too strong of a word. I am far from an absolutist when it comes to sexuality; I've been married to a circ'ed man for 21 years, and yes, I have had vaginal orgasms with him. I think it's great that you have a good sex life with your dh.
In my own case, however, I also think our sex life would have been better if he'd been left intact, for reasons I'm not comfortable talking about on the internet..... I don't think that circumcision means doom for your sex life, far from it! You can find ways to work around it. But for some people, NOT ALL, it can cause problems.
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#123 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 10:50 PM
 
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Ok, so maybe "insist" was too strong of a word. I am far from an absolutist when it comes to sexuality; I've been married to a circ'ed man for 21 years, and yes, I have had vaginal orgasms with him. I think it's great that you have a good sex life with your dh.
In my own case, however, I also think our sex life would have been better if he'd been left intact, for reasons I'm not comfortable talking about on the internet..... I don't think that circumcision means doom for your sex life, far from it! You can find ways to work around it. But for some people, NOT ALL, it can cause problems.
I completely agree. I don't know how our sexual relationship would be different if he hadn't have been circ'd. It may have been better. Either way, the "better" choice is always against RIC regardless. And I think for him, it would have been better. Losing the nerve endings there can't help but reduce pleasure.
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#124 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 10:53 PM
 
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As a mother of daughters I just hope they find men who treat them well and love and respect them. Their penis status will not be within their control, and people in love work things out. I don't sit around and wish for them to find men with large penises, or small ones, or ones that lean to the left, or black ones, or white ones, or pink ones-all variations of nature. I just wish they find a good human being, and the rest will fall into place. (not negating those who have been harmed by RIC, but you love your partners so much you are working together on a solution).

I have been with intact men and circed men and men from three different races. I ended up marrying an African man with a tight circ (so tight it causes his penis to curve down a bit). The sex he and I share is intensely pleasurable for me, and the best I have had. One of the intact men I was in a long term relationship with had a penis that curved to the left so much it caused me pain in certain positions. Can't say I have been with a man who was "too small" but I am sure someone on this board may have had that experience. So for the op, there are so many variations that you cannot control and even though circumcision isn't one of the natural variations we have to accept it exists and trust that our children will have the capacity to love deeply and choose partners are generous. So while I will say intact is the ideal, it does not guarantee anything in the satisfaction department. If there were not sexual preferences, there would not be 90 billion (making that up) different categories of pornography, or those fetish circ people-there is a doc in Atlanta who performs hundreds elective circs every year on men over 18, or piercings, or whips, or toys. Sadly, not every man gets to make the CHOICE about his own foreskin but I wouldn't lose any sleep over my girls' future based on some closed minded parents.

I think more important than the issue of circumcision to our daughter's sex lives is education about anatomy, and self esteem, and their ability to talk openly about sex (hopefully able to articulate their needs to their partners). How well they know themselves and their own likes has a much more direct impact on their sexual satisfaction and is an aspect they can actually control.

I imagine my husband and I would be hurt if we thought my parents lost sleep over the mutilation status of his penis. We talked about it (when we chose not to circ our children) and then he and I got over it and it is a non-issue. If sexual dysfunction arises in the future, he and I would tackle it head on together. Hopefully my daughters will do the same when they are old enough and in mature fullfilling relationships.
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#125 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 10:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by +stella+ View Post
Re: the last post. I also think it depends on the woman's amount of natural lubrication. That sounds so weird, but with my husband, who has a rather tight circ imo, when I am naturally lubricated the sex isnt as uncomfortable than it is with artificial lubrication. So if youre blessed with a lot of lubrication to begin with, circ status would certainly effect you less, (my guess)..
That may be. I produce (TMI warning) copious amounts of lubrication. That's only a problem rarely, and only when using the wrong brand of condom, on a day when I am producing less. Which I would expect, would be the same regardless of circ status.
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#126 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 11:25 PM
 
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There is a world of difference between:

"I hope that when my child finds a long-term sexual partner, that that partner happens to be intact" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

and:

"I hope that if my child finds a long-term sexual partner and discovers that he is not intact, he/she rejects that partner for this reason" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

There is also a world of difference between:

"I worry night and day with great intensity that my child will find a partner who is not intact" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

and:

"It saddens me to think that my child's chances of finding an intact partner are less because we live in a culture where the cutting of male children is still a common practice." (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)


I worry about a lot of things for my children's future. I worry about the state of the environment, I worry about world peace, I worry about my own mortality and the possibility of leaving them prematurely, I worry about their future health..............the list is endless. But I don't have sleepless nights about it, and I don't worry about the specifics of their futures, or the specifics of their future sex lives. I don't think I"m unusual in the fact that I think about all these aspects of their future at different times, and their sexual future is a part of their future. I'd prefer them to not have any unnecessary challenges in life, and it saddens me that the culture of genital mutilation in this country could affect them even though I left them intact. I"d prefer them to not face this potential challenge, and I wish that it wasn't even a possibility. Not that I have sleepless nights about it though.
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#127 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
There is a world of difference between:

"I hope that when my child finds a long-term sexual partner, that that partner happens to be intact" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

and:

"I hope that if my child finds a long-term sexual partner and discovers that he is not intact, he/she rejects that partner for this reason" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

There is also a world of difference between:

"I worry night and day with great intensity that my child will find a partner who is not intact" (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)

and:

"It saddens me to think that my child's chances of finding an intact partner are less because we live in a culture where the cutting of male children is still a common practice." (because in spite of anecdotal evidence, the fact is that my child's chances of having a fulfilling sex life is greater)


I worry about a lot of things for my children's future. I worry about the state of the environment, I worry about world peace, I worry about my own mortality and the possibility of leaving them prematurely, I worry about their future health..............the list is endless. But I don't have sleepless nights about it, and I don't worry about the specifics of their futures, or the specifics of their future sex lives. I don't think I"m unusual in the fact that I think about all these aspects of their future at different times, and their sexual future is a part of their future. I'd prefer them to not have any unnecessary challenges in life, and it saddens me that the culture of genital mutilation in this country could affect them even though I left them intact. I"d prefer them to not face this potential challenge, and I wish that it wasn't even a possibility. Not that I have sleepless nights about it though.
Wonderfully put, Britishmum.
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#128 of 141 Old 11-13-2007, 01:09 AM
 
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Your daughter is 4 yo and you're sad about her future sex life?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

Creepy.
I agree.

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I really could care less, honestly. I've had both types of partners, ended up marrying an 'intact' european man, but i can safely say there was no reason for my mom to feel sad for me when I was with my circumcised partners. And to be brutally honest, before I became Anti-Circ - I preferred my sex life with the Circ'd men : Sorry to burst that bubble there.

I'm in the opposite boat - I'll be the one trying to bite my tongue if my daughters come home with a european man (or even a man at all ). Penis aside, they're a lot of work compared to the other men I've dated. : Between the culture clashes and 'where to live' neverending argument, as well as trying NOT to insult each other everytime we encounter a difference that we can't understand.....I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Besides, the circ rate in Canada is only 18%. I'd say her odds are pretty good.
I've been with both, and I don't care either way. It's maybe a little rougher with a circed man, but I like that. I can orgasm with either, thru just intercourse.

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:ummm i know i cant be with a man that is cut because I have had cut the past. so i know that the sex sucks and i dont enjoy it. I cant fall for someone who is not whole because this is a major thing that effects the whole relationship and YES i do ask. i will continue my education of my children (and everyone else) on what is wrong with cutting a baby and why it is bad. when they are bigger i will go in to it fully so that they understand it. i will share my past with my dd's and even my ds's and let them know that the sex is bad.
think that it takes alot of woman to speak up saying that sex is bad. maybe then people will start to listen. :
The sex was NOT bad, and I'm not gonna lie & say it was. It was great!!!

No, I wouldn't have a son circed. It's not even covered by our medical plan here, and it's not done locally either.
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#129 of 141 Old 11-13-2007, 08:46 AM
 
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I worry about a lot of things for my children's future. I worry about the state of the environment, I worry about world peace, I worry about my own mortality and the possibility of leaving them prematurely, I worry about their future health..............the list is endless. But I don't have sleepless nights about it, and I don't worry about the specifics of their futures, or the specifics of their future sex lives. I don't think I"m unusual in the fact that I think about all these aspects of their future at different times, and their sexual future is a part of their future. I'd prefer them to not have any unnecessary challenges in life, and it saddens me that the culture of genital mutilation in this country could affect them even though I left them intact. I"d prefer them to not face this potential challenge, and I wish that it wasn't even a possibility. Not that I have sleepless nights about it though.
Ah, that sums it up for me, too. It wasn't a big worry for me-- just something I had thought about-- and worried about-- a couple of times, briefly. I'm not obsessing over it over here. Anyway, I may never even have a daughter at all.

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#130 of 141 Old 11-13-2007, 09:58 AM
 
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It's hurtful to suggest that if her male partner has some sort of 'imperfection' (and these can come from many other sources other than circumcision, by the way) that she will be 'unfulfilled'. It places far too much responsibility on the hypothetical uncirc'd male partner to see to it that she has a fulfilling sex life. I think that's unfair and kinda dangerous thinking.
I get what you are saying, but I think, to an extent, people have been talking at cross purposes on this thread.

I don't think that circed sex automatically equals bad sex, any more than being married to someone who is bipolar (as an example) means that you are going to have a difficult relationship.

However, male genital mutilation plays a significant role in sexual dysfunction - be that mild dysfunction (the guy has slightly uncomfortable erections, or maybe needs a bit more forceful stimulation in order to climax) or severe dysfunction, as described by some posters on this board.

Just as being bipolar can cause issues in a relationship (I know - my SIL's partner is bipolar...he's a great guy, and they are doing well, but there are issues they have to work through due to this issue in his life).

As Britishmum (other others) have said - this isn't something that I obsess about. But when it crosses my mind, it makes me sad that this is an issue my daughters might have to deal with in their future.

I think that is where most posters in this thread are with this issue.

And as njeb said - it would be interesting to know the effects of circumcision on adult sexual functioning into middle age and later life. I think that some things that are OK when you are young, are not so OK as you get older...

For me, making sure all of my children are informed about male genital mutilation and the effects it can have on both partners is key (just as my SIL has educated herself about being bipolar). Knowledge can help significantly in working through issues caused by a cut partner.

However, it is important to acknowledge that some circumcision related dysfunction is extremely severe and knowledge about its causes won't necessarily help.

It still amazes me that cutting a newborn's genitals is even legal.
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#131 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 01:05 AM
 
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If I were to be worried about my daughters' hypothetical future sex lives (which I actually do, from time to time, because I'm a worrywart), I worry that they will end up with partners who do not love them. Partners who do not respect them. Partners who are unkind to them. Partners who do not make them happy. These are what I worry about, not anyone's penile state. If my daughter (either of them) finds her soul mate, and he happens to be circumcised, I don't believe that should be an impediment to their relationship. And if she ends up with the wrong man, the foreskin or lack thereof will be the least of her problems.

I do know that circumcision (male and female) has an effect on sexual sensitivity, but I am bothered by the boiling down of a relationship to purely the genital element.
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#132 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 01:17 AM
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This occurred to me today: My son will enjoy a normal sex life because he is intact. My daughter is not guaranteed a normal sex life because her husband may be circumcised.
Just in case no one else said it in 7 pages:

You are assuming that uncircumcized men don't get ED, that neither of them (your daughter and her husband) will be overweight (which, trust me, makes things interesting), and that she will marry a "normal" man rather than one with a handicap or infirmity that prevents a "normal" sex life.
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#133 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 01:33 AM
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Correct. But do you deny that circumcision can impact a man's sexuality negatively? Circumcised women claim to still have orgasms and enjoy sex despite having their external clitorises removed, but none of use would ever say "There's more to good sex than just the clitoris" :

Please remember, that just as some women can have orgasms WITHOUT clitoral stimulation, for some women, they need MORE than JUST clitoral stimulation.
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#134 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 01:41 AM
 
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Wow. New here. Just read this whole thread. I had no idea circumcision affected the woman's sex life. I knew it affected a man's pleasure and sensation ... but, I had no clue about the female part of it.

I would never circumcise my son (if I have a son) as I think it's barbaric.

Just from personal experience, though, my S/O is circumcised. (He thinks it's barbaric as well, as do his parents ... but he was adopted at 6 weeks, and already circumcised by then.) The reason I didn't even think about the affect on woman is because (sorry if this is too much information) our sex life is fantastic. I mean REALLY fantastic, lol. This is true for the times when we have "quickies" and I'm not as wet to the times where we have hours of foreplay.

So, I wouldn't write off all those circumcised men just yet. There is hope for them too. In my experience (which admittedly is not vast, lol), it's a matter of finding an attentive, open lover who is aroused by his partner's arousal. If one has that, then the sky is the limit. Again, obviously, just my personal experience.
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#135 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 12:53 PM
 
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Where is the old thread we did this to death on already? (I am catching up & just caught the first & last pages. The last one I mentioned my adult dd & wondering for her sake & recieved the same 'eek! you shouldn't think of such things!' response, though there was much valuable discussion as well.)

So here's my update:
Dd (20) has since gotten her first bf, & he is Puerto Rican (from Puerto Rico), & I haven't asked, but she has been walking about 3 ft off the ground since they began a physical relationship . I think she got the message.

I am separating from my dh, & a primary cause is suck-ass sex (but if he wasn't being a turd otherwise, I wouldn't have left over it). So hello, pro-circ relatives having spasms over our divorce? (I don't know why, since I won't keep the kids from seeing anyone, & in fact moved 800 miles closer to an inlaw, but the fact remains that they are very freaked.) Great sex might have kept me around. Just a thought. You even screwed up his ability to masturbate properly without lube or rubbing himself raw, won't being single be just a blast for him?

If (when!) I date, I will be happy to enjoy 'normal' sex (with a man ) if that is who I am attracted to & we hook up (and where I moved, my odds are a lot better ), & I am certainly not looking for anything but FWB after this, but if a guy I like ends up to be circ'd, I will be sad it happened to him (and educate him why- the bumper sticker is going to elicit some conversation, I imagine!), but of course I would still like him, enjoy the sex (since it isn't mandatory for newly divorced ladies - unenjoyable sex isn't going to be a frequent thing in my new life), & not 'reduce people to their genitals'.

I am glad my dd is educated & knows what she wanted, & had the ability to make an informed choice in lovers. I can't see anything weird or wrong about that (and if anyone thinks she somehow got intactively brainwashed & picked a bf to please Mum, puhLEEZE. But even with teenagers determined to rebel, there are some things so self-evidently destructive even they won't condone them. )

There is no friend of my dd's that doesn't know the function of the foreskin or think that circ is revolting, cruel, inhuman. These are today's young adult women, a different American generation. One that won't HAVE to settle, for lack of choice, if they decide normal (hetero or homo) sexuality with whole genitals is something they would prefer to live with. If pro-cutters think the girls their sons will date won't find out and know, they are wrong. If pro-cutters think their sons won't figure it out, they are mistaken.

(PS If it is 'creepy' to speak of the masturbation habits of grown offspring, then why advocate sticking your proboscis in their sex lives enough to consider removing a functional sex organ from them & their partners for the rest of their lives? Now that's creepy!)
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#136 of 141 Old 11-17-2007, 02:44 PM
 
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Yeah I've thought about that before in regards to my DD. Well, if we stay in Canada, the men she meets are likely to be intact. I don't think she should reject men who aren't intact. I just hope that she finds a really compatible, kind man of high character. If he is intact, that is icing on the cake.

I think this is an important topic because it seems to me that many people in the US, men and women, do not understand the purpose of the foreskin or how its absence can affect their sex lives.
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#137 of 141 Old 11-22-2007, 05:19 PM
 
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Nobody is suggesting that the OP's children (either of them!) should prefer a circed penis to an intact one. But I do find the post heterosexist, and just a bit overly focused on the foreskin and its connection to sexuality. There is a lot to sexuality and there is no way to know whether either child will have or want a partner with a foreskin, and what that might or might not mean to their sex lives.
What exactly do you mean by "want"? By saying that, you really make it sound like you support circumcision being a choice for parents to make, or if not that, at least it's nice that there are both natural and circumcised penises out there because some partner might "want" one choice over another. Circumcision should simply be illegal. Having a foreskin shouldn't be a choice for parents to make, and a partner being chosen based on whether or not he has his foreskin shouldn't be tolerated, either.

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#138 of 141 Old 11-23-2007, 03:43 PM
 
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This is a really weird thread! I would just support your daughter to have a healthy sex life with whoever she falls in love with - man, woman, circ'ed or not. Sheesh.
Well, I understand her line of thought. My sex life is unhealthy because my husband is circ'd (not that everyone will be like this, but this is me I'm talking about here). It's extremely painful, we have to use lots of lube for it to even be un-painful (and I make a LOT of lube naturally...but sex is always dry) and then it's just mechanical because with that much lube you can't feel anything... Since he started restoring, it's become slightly better, and I assume it will get better over time... but we still go months at a time between sessions and I know our relationship suffers for it as well. Neither of us are sexaholics but I think both of us agree we'd like to be close more than 3x a year.

I get it.
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#139 of 141 Old 11-23-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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My daughter is 3 and the LAST thing on my mind is if her husband will be intact. lol Let them be kids for a while. They will grow up fast enough!
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#140 of 141 Old 11-24-2007, 01:15 AM
 
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My daughter is 3 and the LAST thing on my mind is if her husband will be intact. lol Let them be kids for a while. They will grow up fast enough!
Actually, my dd's future happiness has always mattered to me. Fast enough indeed; you'll blink, they'll be sexually active (even if they are 'good girls' :Puke), it will still eventually come up.

You'll wonder, did you talk to them truthfully & openly about sexual matters, or continue the paradigm of shame that perpetuates things like men wanting to skin their son's penises alive rather than think about the entirety of the horror that was perpetrated upon themselves, or women who won't put in a tampon because they'd have to touch themselves 'down there'?

I'm 100% without regrets that my dd knew before the time came.
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#141 of 141 Old 11-24-2007, 02:02 PM
 
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Nobody is suggesting that the OP's children (either of them!) should prefer a circed penis to an intact one. But I do find the post heterosexist, and just a bit overly focused on the foreskin and its connection to sexuality.
Um, a foreskin is DIRECTLY connected to any sexuality involving a male, be it gay, straight, solo, or whatever, or at least it ought to be. The post isn't heterosexist, its just rational. Considering the odds, its safe to assume that the OP's child will be straight.

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There is a lot to sexuality and there is no way to know whether either child will have or want a partner with a foreskin, and what that might or might not mean to their sex lives.
To see how sick that sounds, let me modify it slightly: "There is a lot to sexuality and there is no way to know whether either child will have or want a partner with a clitoris, and what that might or might not mean to their sex lives."

Cutting a nonconsenting person is wrong, regardless of gender.
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