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#1 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Friends of mine have encouraged me to post here about my issues in the hopes of finding some sort of... I don't know. At this point it would take a magical solution that I don't know about yet.

I like to think of myself as a rational, logical person. When the question came up of circ or no circ, I read a little and quickly decided there was no need to do so. I am not a fan of ANY kind of surgeries or treatments that are not medically necessary, and the thought of cutting off a piece of my son's PENIS makes me literally queasy.

But my husband... oh my husband. First of all, he's circed. All his brothers are circed. We live in New England (which has some of the highest circ rates in the country) so almost everyone he knows is circed. He grew up in a time where an uncirced boy was made fun of horribly. In a time when uncirced penises were dirty and disgusting. My husband feels very VERY strongly about this. He reacted so horribly when I stated that I do not want to circumcise our son.

It has gotten very very BAD. We literally cannot speak about circumcision in the house anymore, as it ends up with me in tears, him angry, and us no closer to an agreement. He has been literally begging me to give him this one decision, he says he'll do anything at all, go along with any other idea at all, if I will give him this one. And it's breaking my heart. See, crying again. I do not want to hurt my husband.

He has been really really wonderful. He's not the kind to really research things, he's certainly not earth-crunchy. But he's agreed to do cloth diapering (with prefolds!) and isn't put off by it. He wants to babywear (though he refuses to wear a wrap or a sling, lol). He's supportive of me breastfeeding, even though he thinks formula is a fine option (he knows how very important BFing is to me). We're doing Bradley classes because I want to have a natural birth and he insists on being as fully involved as possible (he got very upset when I suggested a doula, because he thought I wanted to replace him!)... his only caveat being I have to give birth in what is, in his opinion, the BEST hospital in the area. (Something I am okay with.) I just want you to understand that my husband is a WONDERFUL man, very very giving, very very supportive, very willing to give me almost anything I want.

But the idea of not circing his boy FREAKS HIM OUT. I have read all sorts of research to him and it has only upset him further. He says smegma is disgusting and there is nothing I can say that will change his mind, even though I know it is a perfectly normal thing and easy to keep clean, just like my girly bits (which he does not find disgusting, btw). He is circed, like I said, and he likes him how he is. He thinks that's how penises SHOULD be, and he is thoroughly repulsed by non-circed penises (we spent one evening looking up info and photos online).

I just don't know what to do anymore. His opinion is not based on any kind of logic or reasoning, so all the research I have only goes so far. He has this huge gut-instinct reaction and nothing I say or do seems to make a dent in it.

He has expressed to me great sadness that I am the one who makes the final decision... because he knows as well as I do that the hospital won't do a thing without both our signatures. (And he'd never go ahead and do something behind my back.)

I do not WANT it to come down to me simply refusing to sign the papers. I do not WANT to spend the days after our son's birth with my husband resenting me for this. But what else can I do? What else can I say? Either way I feel like I'm letting someone down. There doesn't seem to be any good answer. Unless my husband miraculously changes his mind... but at this point, after so many arguments... I just don't see how that's going to happen.

Any help greatly appreciated...

Natalie, mama to Katherine (5/22/10), missing Devin (stillborn 3/6/08)
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#2 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:39 AM
 
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Oh, Natalie, my heart goes out to you.

You are exactly right - his opinion is NOT based on any kind of logic or reasoning. Please read this article (but don't show it to DH) - it might give you a better understand of where he's coming from.

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

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#3 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:44 AM
 
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I am so sorry you are going through this. Many of the mama's here have dealt with similar issues including myself.

My dh still is not anti circ but he doesn't see it that same way he used to.

What it comes down to in my mind is your dh is a grown man and he will love his ds no matter what. But you are the only one here to protect your ds from what you know is a surgery that is cosmetic only.

You worry about your dh resenting you. What about how you will feel about your dh if you allow this to happen? Will you be able to look at him the same way knowing you hurt your ds just to make your dh happy?

What if you ds is one that has major issues with the circ? We have more than one mama here who's ds's have had really bad complications leading to more surgery down the road for their ds and more pain that could have been totally avoided.

Even if he has no noticeable complication what if he comes to you years from now and asked why you cut the most sensitive part of my penis off and your only answer will be because it would have upset your father if I hadn't

Our #1 job as parents is to protect our children from harm. There is no one else out there going to do it so it is up to you to protect him from what you know is a senseless and very painful procedure with life long ramifications. If it comes down to you refusing then so be it. I couldnt respect a man who wanted to hurt my child can you continue to see your dh as the warm, loving, kind man if he dosnt let his son be whole?

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#4 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:48 AM
 
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I'm very sorry you're dealing with this. I just wanted to give you one piece of info. I teach childbirth classes in MA (Baystate Medical Ctr) and the circ rate there is about 50%. Not great, but definatly not the majority (obviously). You can get the rates at any hospital in MA by law. Knowing that it's not the majority anymore and that either way he'll have friends that are the same may help.

Also, I would show him the circ videos, rent Penn & Teller to show him their circ episode, email him links, etc. I'm sure others will have more helpful info, but I wish you the best.
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#5 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:54 AM
 
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Has he watched the video linked to here on the forum of a circ and what his ds will have to endure?

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#6 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:55 AM
 
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I was exactly in your shoes 8 years ago. I caved in about a week after my son was born because I was weak. I was tired of the tension between us, I thought in the one moment I said fine, but you have to be the one to schedule it, take him in and comfort him while they're doing it. I put my husbabnd before my son. I have regretted it ever since. By the way I successfully kept my second son intact. Partly from the intense regret and guilt that I didn't protect my son, when he was helpless. A week old. I have not looked at my husband the same way since then. What kind of man wants to pay someone hundreds of dollars to cut off the most sensitive part of their own newborn's genetalia. I lost so much respect for my husband over his own refusal to get outside of his own opinion. Your son can always choose to get circed one day. Even if he chooses to restore one day, it doesn't bring back what you two paid to have physically cut off.

I thought it would be better for my family to end the conflict and just handle it myself, then let it drag on. But I still hurt more than I can convey across internet space. It's difficult to forgive myself when I can't even claim I was ignorant, I didn't know better. I have to say I knew it was wrong, really really wrong, I would be so pissed off if someone did that to me, and I still let it happen.

It isn't a discussion. It isn't about respecting your husband's feelings or point of view. I got that confused. It's about doing what is right. It's about protecting your son. Your husband doesn't have to agree or understand. It isn't his body. Feel free to pm me with anything on this. It's just a lot harder to look at yourself with respect when you're holding your whimpering, crying newborn, knowing it's your fault he's circed.
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#7 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:57 AM
 
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My DH was pretty set against it too. Finally, I said fine on two conditions. 1- you arrange to watch one in person or watch two on video AND 2-you go with your son and comfort him while it's being done. Guess what?




My boys are intact.
He never even tried to download the videos. He couldn't stomach the idea of having to watch.
It only makes sense that you have to see it to really understand what you are doing. And you should really understand before you make a life time decision for someone else's body.
Best wishes to you and your son.
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#8 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:00 AM
 
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Ask your husband how he'll feel if you don't want to have sex with him anymore because a circed penis is so traumatic to you after having to care for your baby's wound from it, and knowing your husband wanted it?

It completely destroyed our completely healthy sex life. How can you want to have sex with a man who insists on cutting your tiny baby's penis?
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#9 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:03 AM
 
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WOW!!! Your story sounds soooo much like mine, its frighting!!:


One thing that is different, I didn't have MDC at that time to help me with this.

You do!

Okay first off read this...
The Vulnerablilty of Men

This is for YOUR eyes only. It'll give you a good perspective on where he's coming from.

Then buy the Penn & Teller BullSh!t DVD for him for x-mas the episode on circumcision convinced my dh so much that he sent it to every single man he knows. (that is so not like my dh)

Tell him "We'll build for our son a healthy self esteem that locker room issues should ever be a problem, I mean, c'mon a guy looking at another guys penis? They'd be teased just for looking!!!"

Circumcision is a solution in search of a problem - Edward Wallerstein
Show him this slide show of the history of this practice.
The Medicalization of Circumcision

Then say, "I don't want to be apart of that scam!!!"

If he never gets on board, he will even if it takes till your intact is grown. You have the power to protect him. You can say no. Just say no. Its really really easy. Say NO. ok

Take this Circ Refusal Form to a Lawyer and have him sign it. Make at least 4 copies of that form with his Signature. Have your OB sign it, and the Pediatrician sign it as well. Make no/circ stickers and put them on your ds's diapers. Make No Circ cards for the nursury bassinet at the hospital. Put a NoCirc Sign on your Postpartum Hospital Door. Do everything in your power to protect your ds!!! The cards, forms and stickers all can be made from that link. Scroll down to the bottom. It will give you options on how to create them.

Good Luck and GOOD FOR YOU FOR PROTECTING YOUR DS!!!! YOU ARE A GREAT MOM!!!!
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#10 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lunarmagic View Post
He says smegma is disgusting
He actually said that to you?!
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#11 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:10 AM
 
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Smegma is the Greek word for soap.
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#12 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:12 AM
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Smegma is the Greek word for soap.
I have a soap factory in my pants.
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#13 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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#14 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:27 AM
 
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#15 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post
Oh, Natalie, my heart goes out to you.

You are exactly right - his opinion is NOT based on any kind of logic or reasoning. Please read this article (but don't show it to DH) - it might give you a better understand of where he's coming from.

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html
Thank you. I have read that... it did make a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
I am so sorry you are going through this. Many of the mama's here have dealt with similar issues including myself.

My dh still is not anti circ but he doesn't see it that same way he used to.

What it comes down to in my mind is your dh is a grown man and he will love his ds no matter what. But you are the only one here to protect your ds from what you know is a surgery that is cosmetic only.

You worry about your dh resenting you. What about how you will feel about your dh if you allow this to happen? Will you be able to look at him the same way knowing you hurt your ds just to make your dh happy?

What if you ds is one that has major issues with the circ? We have more than one mama here who's ds's have had really bad complications leading to more surgery down the road for their ds and more pain that could have been totally avoided.

Even if he has no noticeable complication what if he comes to you years from now and asked why you cut the most sensitive part of my penis off and your only answer will be because it would have upset your father if I hadn't

Our #1 job as parents is to protect our children from harm. There is no one else out there going to do it so it is up to you to protect him from what you know is a senseless and very painful procedure with life long ramifications. If it comes down to you refusing then so be it. I couldnt respect a man who wanted to hurt my child can you continue to see your dh as the warm, loving, kind man if he dosnt let his son be whole?
This is what keeps me up at night... knowing how much I would regret it if I gave in. And yes if anything did go wrong... it would tear me apart.

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Originally Posted by ctdoula View Post
I'm very sorry you're dealing with this. I just wanted to give you one piece of info. I teach childbirth classes in MA (Baystate Medical Ctr) and the circ rate there is about 50%. Not great, but definatly not the majority (obviously). You can get the rates at any hospital in MA by law. Knowing that it's not the majority anymore and that either way he'll have friends that are the same may help.

Also, I would show him the circ videos, rent Penn & Teller to show him their circ episode, email him links, etc. I'm sure others will have more helpful info, but I wish you the best.
Thank you for that info! Actually, that is where I am giving birth. 50% is a much better statistic than others I have found for the north east. Wow.

I need to get that DVD.

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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
Has he watched the video linked to here on the forum of a circ and what his ds will have to endure?
No.... mostly because I can't bear to watch. :/

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Originally Posted by ja mama View Post
I was exactly in your shoes 8 years ago. I caved in about a week after my son was born because I was weak. I was tired of the tension between us, I thought in the one moment I said fine, but you have to be the one to schedule it, take him in and comfort him while they're doing it. I put my husbabnd before my son. I have regretted it ever since. By the way I successfully kept my second son intact. Partly from the intense regret and guilt that I didn't protect my son, when he was helpless. A week old. I have not looked at my husband the same way since then. What kind of man wants to pay someone hundreds of dollars to cut off the most sensitive part of their own newborn's genetalia. I lost so much respect for my husband over his own refusal to get outside of his own opinion. Your son can always choose to get circed one day. Even if he chooses to restore one day, it doesn't bring back what you two paid to have physically cut off.

I thought it would be better for my family to end the conflict and just handle it myself, then let it drag on. But I still hurt more than I can convey across internet space. It's difficult to forgive myself when I can't even claim I was ignorant, I didn't know better. I have to say I knew it was wrong, really really wrong, I would be so pissed off if someone did that to me, and I still let it happen.

It isn't a discussion. It isn't about respecting your husband's feelings or point of view. I got that confused. It's about doing what is right. It's about protecting your son. Your husband doesn't have to agree or understand. It isn't his body. Feel free to pm me with anything on this. It's just a lot harder to look at yourself with respect when you're holding your whimpering, crying newborn, knowing it's your fault he's circed.
Thank you for your input. I do think I'd feel that way too. I have spent some nights curled up crying, hugging my belly, thinking about the hurt that would be done to my child, the very thought hurts me so bad.

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Originally Posted by Kabes View Post
My DH was pretty set against it too. Finally, I said fine on two conditions. 1- you arrange to watch one in person or watch two on video AND 2-you go with your son and comfort him while it's being done. Guess what?




My boys are intact.
He never even tried to download the videos. He couldn't stomach the idea of having to watch.
It only makes sense that you have to see it to really understand what you are doing. And you should really understand before you make a life time decision for someone else's body.
Best wishes to you and your son.
I think my DH would actually go through with the watching, lol. Just so he could get his boy circed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja mama View Post
Ask your husband how he'll feel if you don't want to have sex with him anymore because a circed penis is so traumatic to you after having to care for your baby's wound from it, and knowing your husband wanted it?

It completely destroyed our completely healthy sex life. How can you want to have sex with a man who insists on cutting your tiny baby's penis?
I doubt that would cause any good outcomes... I really have to try hard to make this about our son, not my husband. He gets extremely defensive and angry if I bring up how it may or may not affect sex (circing and being circ'ed in general).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
WOW!!! Your story sounds soooo much like mine, its frighting!!:


One thing that is different, I didn't have MDC at that time to help me with this.

You do!

Okay first off read this...
The Vulnerablilty of Men

This is for YOUR eyes only. It'll give you a good perspective on where he's coming from.

Then buy the Penn & Teller BullSh!t DVD for him for x-mas the episode on circumcision convinced my dh so much that he sent it to every single man he knows. (that is so not like my dh)

Tell him "We'll build for our son a healthy self esteem that locker room issues should ever be a problem, I mean, c'mon a guy looking at another guys penis? They'd be teased just for looking!!!"

Circumcision is a solution in search of a problem - Edward Wallerstein
Show him this slide show of the history of this practice.
The Medicalization of Circumcision

Then say, "I don't want to be apart of that scam!!!"

If he never gets on board, he will even if it takes till your intact is grown. You have the power to protect him. You can say no. Just say no. Its really really easy. Say NO. ok

Take this Circ Refusal Form to a Lawyer and have him sign it. Make at least 4 copies of that form with his Signature. Have your OB sign it, and the Pediatrician sign it as well. Make no/circ stickers and put them on your ds's diapers. Make No Circ cards for the nursury bassinet at the hospital. Put a NoCirc Sign on your Postpartum Hospital Door. Do everything in your power to protect your ds!!! The cards, forms and stickers all can be made from that link. Scroll down to the bottom. It will give you options on how to create them.

Good Luck and GOOD FOR YOU FOR PROTECTING YOUR DS!!!! YOU ARE A GREAT MOM!!!!
Thank you. I will keep repeating myself. It hurts me to see him so angry, but I do think it will hurt me a lot more to see my son circ'ed! I really really hope someday he gets it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamalluv View Post
He actually said that to you?!
Oh yes, and more, lol. DH has issues with penises in general.... he's "okay" with anything that's just like him, but they gross him out in the worst way (yes even a circed penis). An uncirced one is just plain nasty to him.

::

Another thing my hubby said to me in arguments... which REALLY frustrated me... is, "I don't get why this is such a big deal to you, you're not a male, you don't have a penis. I do." Like he KNOWS how his son is going to feel about his own penis. I agree that he's a male so he sort of has a better understanding of what penises feel like and all that, but sheesh. I'm his MOTHER. Why wouldn't I have a strong opinion about surgery on my son??

I guess I'm just going to have to keep pushing links on him and refusing to agree. I'll get the Penn and Teller DVD (we have Netflix) and watch that episode together... if it's as good as you people say it is, maybe it'll have some impact on him. I'm just so incredibly frustrated that everything I've told him, everything I've read to him from books, everything I've argued, has been totally shot down/ignored by him and hasn't made a dent. Well, I shouldn't say that.... I think I *have* made him think about the "cleanliness" issue. He used to argue that it was cleaner and healthier to have a circed penis, but I think my links and statistics and quotes on how that is NOT true has made some change because he's stopped arguing that.

Natalie, mama to Katherine (5/22/10), missing Devin (stillborn 3/6/08)
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#16 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 02:43 AM
 
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I have a circ'ed DH and 2 circ'ed DSs...DH was adamant that #3 was getting circ'ed as well. In the end, I convinced him by telling him, lets wait. My non-circ'ed boy is as gross as my other 2 (meaning, he's not, there's nothing there to BE gross)...tell your DH it's your son's penis to decide. If HE thinks it's gross, then HE can cut it off.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
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#17 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 03:08 AM
 
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You can ask him, "How is it cleaner to care for a wound with Feces and Urine up against it?"

The foreskin was created to protect the glans! Its so simple to care for an intact penis. Its WAAY harder to care for a wound. An open wound on an infant whose immune system isn't even up and running yet, is vulnerable to MRSA which is more common than contracting HIV/AIDS!


Just wipe on the outside with warm water when caring for an intact penis. It is so simple. And never ever retract it!!!
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#18 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 05:06 AM
 
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Hey Nat, Ive been thinking about this for you for a long time, I really wished for a girl for you so you could just avoid this whole thing. But I dont want to at all take away from celebrating Devin. sigh

Ok so, I think you should, if you havent already tried this, is come from the angle of how its traumatic right after birth and could affect your breastfeeding success and how you all would feel if anything at all went wrong. Find the stats of complications, I know they are around here somewhere. Play up that it can always be done, if your son chooses he wants to in the future but it can never be undone. Why cant he let his son decide for himself? That kinda thing. I think DH is stuck on your son as "your son" or property and not his own person, he can always decide to have it done later if he wants to. And he gets pain meds and an understanding that a newborn does not.

I have a feeling and I hope on all hopes that I am right, but after seeing Devin a while just the way he is, Den might come around and just accept him like that, like right now hes just a theoretical son. If that makes any sense. I think, knowing you, that you would be so regretful if you let this happen and you didnt want. I really dont want that pain and torment for you. You were one of the ones on my xanga that convinced me to not do it to my son, many years ago, remember that?

Anyway, I say go for the what if angle of the damage that can be done as a newborn, how it can always be done later if your son chooses, and if Den is admitting that his thoughts are not researched based and rational, he really wants this to be the one thing he gets his way on? Ugh Im sorry that makes no sense.

Well. Im here for you, I hope this can be worked out for you guys. :
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#19 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Synthea™ View Post
I have a circ'ed DH and 2 circ'ed DSs...DH was adamant that #3 was getting circ'ed as well. In the end, I convinced him by telling him, lets wait. My non-circ'ed boy is as gross as my other 2 (meaning, he's not, there's nothing there to BE gross)...tell your DH it's your son's penis to decide. If HE thinks it's gross, then HE can cut it off.
Yeah... I think all penises are weird, no matter what, lol. So DH making comparisons and placing one "type" above the other in looks just makes no sense to me! And I fully agree... let the kiddo decide for himself.

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Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
You can ask him, "How is it cleaner to care for a wound with Feces and Urine up against it?"

The foreskin was created to protect the glans! Its so simple to care for an intact penis. Its WAAY harder to care for a wound. An open wound on an infant whose immune system isn't even up and running yet, is vulnerable to MRSA which is more common than contracting HIV/AIDS!

Just wipe on the outside with warm water when caring for an intact penis. It is so simple. And never ever retract it!!!
Thanks for that link! Very useful. And yeah, when I started thinking about an open wound in a DIAPER I realized that really cannot be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by +stella+ View Post
Hey Nat, Ive been thinking about this for you for a long time, I really wished for a girl for you so you could just avoid this whole thing. But I dont want to at all take away from celebrating Devin. sigh

Ok so, I think you should, if you havent already tried this, is come from the angle of how its traumatic right after birth and could affect your breastfeeding success and how you all would feel if anything at all went wrong. Find the stats of complications, I know they are around here somewhere. Play up that it can always be done, if your son chooses he wants to in the future but it can never be undone. Why cant he let his son decide for himself? That kinda thing. I think DH is stuck on your son as "your son" or property and not his own person, he can always decide to have it done later if he wants to. And he gets pain meds and an understanding that a newborn does not.

I have a feeling and I hope on all hopes that I am right, but after seeing Devin a while just the way he is, Den might come around and just accept him like that, like right now hes just a theoretical son. If that makes any sense. I think, knowing you, that you would be so regretful if you let this happen and you didnt want. I really dont want that pain and torment for you. You were one of the ones on my xanga that convinced me to not do it to my son, many years ago, remember that?

Anyway, I say go for the what if angle of the damage that can be done as a newborn, how it can always be done later if your son chooses, and if Den is admitting that his thoughts are not researched based and rational, he really wants this to be the one thing he gets his way on? Ugh Im sorry that makes no sense.

Well. Im here for you, I hope this can be worked out for you guys. :
It took me a minute to realize who you were, lol! Hiya hon! I was one of the ones who convinced you not to? That's funny. I don't remember that! I know, I was really really hoping for a girl so we could avoid all of this.... I'm thrilled with a boy in EVERY other way, but man.... ugh. I really like your thoughts though. Good arguments. You just sparked a couple other ideas in my head, as well.

Natalie, mama to Katherine (5/22/10), missing Devin (stillborn 3/6/08)
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#20 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 06:16 AM
 
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doh sorry, i thought i had posted to you here before and ya knew it was me, lol. I should link you to that post, I was thinking of not doing it and you said something like, "if its not broke, dont fix it" or "as nature intended it to be" or something. i should look it up. was a long time ago, when i used to post some.

didnt mean to freak ya out.
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#21 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by +stella+ View Post
doh sorry, i thought i had posted to you here before and ya knew it was me, lol. I should link you to that post, I was thinking of not doing it and you said something like, "if its not broke, dont fix it" or "as nature intended it to be" or something. i should look it up. was a long time ago, when i used to post some.

didnt mean to freak ya out.
Yeah, that's always been my general atittude, LOL. And you didn't freak me out... just left me puzzled as I was trying to place you. (I have several friends who I know are on MDC.)

Natalie, mama to Katherine (5/22/10), missing Devin (stillborn 3/6/08)
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#22 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 09:29 AM
 
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all you or he has to do is go on www.youtube.com and watch a circumcision video. It makes me want to drop to my knees and cry just thinking about it. It needs to be stopped but parents cling to ignorance because it's so painful to admit that it's horrible. At some point you have to have the courage to break the cycle of mutilation and protect the future generations.
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#23 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 09:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ctdoula View Post
I'm very sorry you're dealing with this. I just wanted to give you one piece of info. I teach childbirth classes in MA (Baystate Medical Ctr) and the circ rate there is about 50%. Not great, but definatly not the majority (obviously). You can get the rates at any hospital in MA by law. Knowing that it's not the majority anymore and that either way he'll have friends that are the same may help.
Yeah that. I know intact adults in New England as well. It's definitely not as popular around here as you seem to think.
My husband is circ'd but all 3 of our boys are intact. I think once he sees his perfect son that he will not be so "repulsed" by a normal penis. At least I hope.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
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#24 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 09:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lunarmagic View Post
Another thing my hubby said to me in arguments... which REALLY frustrated me... is, "I don't get why this is such a big deal to you, you're not a male, you don't have a penis. I do." Like he KNOWS how his son is going to feel about his own penis. I agree that he's a male so he sort of has a better understanding of what penises feel like and all that, but sheesh.
This is such a silly argument for a heterosexual male to make. In all reality a woman is going to have much more experiences with penises than a man, who usually only has experience with his own.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
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#25 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 11:01 AM
 
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It isn't about your dh though. It's not his penis you are talking about. I think the fact he is begging you to cut off part of your son's body shows how deeply circumcision wounds. His ego is way too wrapped up in his son being cut like him and I think that's a protective response for a lot of circumcised men. If it's done to their sons as well then they don't have to think about it, ya know. I wish your dh could take several steps back and realize it isn't about him or his penis ect. I am saying this with a compassionate tone, not snarky at all (I know it can be hard to tell).

If it does come down to it I hope you will protect your son because he can't protect himself. A baby's body parts should never be sacrificed for marital harmony.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#26 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 11:49 AM
 
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Your husband is trying to force you to make (what you know is) a bad decision for your son; and he's so un-informed that the only path he can take to try and get you to agree; is to throw a tantrum over it. He needs to re-evaluate the way he's going about this subject; because this is a bad way to start parenting a helpless child. Your son needs his parents protection, and that starts with making informed choices.

I think you need to tell him that you want to come to a conclusion together, but that he's given you no solid reason in favor of circumcision. Simply stating that "everyone else is circ'd here" would be grounds for a response like "if it's that important to you that he fits in based on his penis, then we'll move to a different state".

If he is unwilling to listen objectively; to put forth his pro-circ reasons properly and have a discussion about it; and to really put weight into the information you give him too; then you need to simply say "sorry if it upsets you, but I'm not giving my consent in this."

Circumcision is not something that can be undone.

Perhaps it would help if you "talked" it out through writing. You could email (?) back and forth about it so you both have time to re-read what you write before you send it; to keep a smooth and productive discussion going.

I'm pretty good for putting together information about this with links and stuff (click here to read my latest response on anti-circumcision. It's the quoted section), so if you want me to do that for you, PM me and I'll send you something for him to read to get the ball rolling.

I'm sorry this has been difficult for you, but sometimes as a parent you have to walk a hard line. This won't be the first time you disagree, and if he won't work with you productively; then you'll just have to stand your ground.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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#27 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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I'm always so baffled to read these threads. Coming from a country where nobody circs, it is strange to see how you mothers have to collect lots and lots of arguments for NOT cirumcising your sons. I can't see that it's anything to argue about, as there is absolutely no reason why you should circ in the first place. He's the one who should be looking for arguments FOR circing, not the other way around!

Circumcision is completely destructive and unneccesary. If everything goes well, your son will first go through lots of completely pointless and incomprehensible pain, then end up with a smaller, less sensitive penis than nature intended. And that is if it goes well! - there are no benefits at all, and it might just not go well, in which case he gets double the pain and an even more ruined penis and sex life.

(I'm sorry if you think it's too harsh to say that circing ruins the sex life of your sons, but as the foreskin is a really important part of the penis and very useful in sexual stimulation both in masturbation and intercourse, I can't see it any other way.)

I would rather leave my husband than let him harm my son, especially in a way that is extremely painful and can't EVER be rectified.

I think you should just say NO. That's all you need to do to protect your baby from the insane cultural practice that circumcision is. Your son will be happy that you did!
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#28 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 12:40 PM
 
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I don't know if this point has been brought up but...

It seems odd to me that a man would want to put his very speacial baby in danger of infection, botched penis, or even death after trying so hard to get pregnant in the first place.

IVF and all the emotional roller coasters that go along with the whole process would make me want to treat this baby extra careful. Maybe that's just me...

FWIW my DH is almost 40 and is intact. He has never, ever had an issue with being made fun of about his penis. No other young man even peeked at his penis in the gym as far as he knows certainly no body has said anything. Sex is amazing and I have never seen a touch of anything yucky on him. And we grew up in CT and all around New England...Your DH's arguments has many, many holes in it.

Just say no and stop talking about it. He'll get over it. The love he has for his perfect baby will trump any thoughts of hacking is penis all up.
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#29 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 12:46 PM
 
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I think your husband will get used to it. There honestly is nothing gross or yucky about a baby boy's intact penis. My son is 4 and I have never seen anything I would call "smegma". He gets regular baths and that's it, there is absolutely no special care or attention needed.

You can also tell your husband that your son can decide for himself when he is older, and when he can have appropriate pain relief during and after the procedure, and when he won't be peeing/pooping all over the wound. My nephew was circ'ed at age 12 (for dubious reasons, unfortunately) but it was apparently pretty minor and he healed quickly and it just was not the big deal it's made out to be, to be circed later than infancy. That may be the best argument to make to your husband for now, that it really is possible and perhaps even preferable to delay the procedure. Then hopefully over time when he sees how normal the intact penis is, he'll just be used to it and realize it is really not such a big deal.
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#30 of 99 Old 12-16-2007, 01:16 PM
 
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I really think you need to screw up your courage and watch the circ videos with him. Sit him down and turn them on. I think you should watch the Prepuce video from DOC (so he knows what the foreskin really is) and both gomco and plastibel procedures with sound so he can hear how the baby shrieks in agony with every step, every snip of the scissors. It's nauseating and makes me shake but I've watched them because it's good to know really what it is so you can argue against it and so you can show people how you have been effected just by watching. Most people just don't know what the foreskin is and how they take it off.

Laura

mom to 3 home-born children, wife to a great guy joy.gif

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