Personal experiences & insights from an intact male. - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello.... I'm not a woman or a mother, but I just felt like contributing to your Anti-Circumcision forum. I wasn't exactly sure in which exact tread to post this, because it seems to fit in all of them. I stumbled upon this forum while doing some research for a paper on the origins & myths about sexual mutilation (aka: circumcision), and I just felt obligated to share my story and experiences to all the mothers out there. If you're expecting and trying to make up your mind on this issue, please read what I have to say. I do think I'm fairly educated on the subject, and after all, I have a foreskin so I know what I'm talking about.

My background: I'm 28 years old, I was born in Brazil and then traveled around the world till me and my mom settled in the US when I was 13 years old. Because circumcision is almost unheard of in Brazil (unless for medical or religious reason), I was privileged to be left as nature and evolution intended (all mammals have foreskins). Obviously all my friends growing up had a foreskin, so everybody pretty much looked the same. In all my travels, the US was the first country on which parents mutilate their male infants, just because they don't know any better.

This section should be specially helpful to all the posts I saw on which mothers are concern about the cleaning and retraction of the foreskin: In my experience, growing up intact was not an issue or a problem whatsoever. I took baths and showers like any other child, but neither I, my mother or pediatrician retracted my foreskin as a young child. Honestly, neither me or my close friends knew that there was more to the penis than met the eye. Nudity was not an issue there, afternoon soap-operas had full frontal nudity almost everyday, but as an adolescent I had never seen a circumcised penis before. As far as I can recall, the first time I retracted my foreskin was when I turned 11. The reasoning for my attempt traces back to my first X-Rated magazine encounter, the publication happened to be from the US, and I was dumbfounded why their penises look so weird & deformed (even when flaccid), after closely studying the pictures and comparing it to myself, I had an epiphany. As you can imagine, the discovery of my brand-new shiny glands was very amusing to me (I don't know if I ever been so entertained!). Well, the real point of my story is: I never retracted my foreskin till then, and it was not dirty or smelly because it was sealed till that moment. I also never had any urinal infections or any other related issues because of it as a child. So just leave you son's intact penis alone, unless he complains about something, or retracts his foreskin on his own (then from that point on teach him how to keep it clean).

I've noticed that most mothers here never had an experience with an intact penis other than their newborn son's (or maybe in their Ewan McGregor's fantasies, which I've been told by several women is one of the main reasons behind their newfound fascination with the uncut penis). This is what I've learned from my present girlfriend, and past ones: At first they were either extremely excited or just plain confused by the sight of it. Rest assured, after they were properly introduced, they were very happy to finally meet the foreskin. Sometimes you'll read that some women will not have sex with an uncut male at all, well that's just the ignorant ones talking, more than likely nobody wants to have sex with them anyway, so they're just making excuses in their head. The befits of the foreskin are too numerous, but here's a sample: I never either during masturbation or sex (vaginally or anally) had to use any kind of lube, the uncut penis has his own lubrification system, just like the vagina has. The penis and foreskin gently glides during intercourse, my girlfriend describes sex with an circumcised penis as rubbing & scratching the inside of her vagina, she thought sex was supposed to feel like that, till her revelation to the contrary.

About some of the urban legends out there:
- The uncut penis is NOT cheesy or dirty, the infamous smegma doesn't really appear if you keep proper hygiene. Regardless, smegma is there for a good reason, it lubricates and cleans the genitals from inside out (Little known fact: Women also produce smegma). Don't tell me that the circumcised penis is so much easier to clean, because it only takes me about five seconds to fully wash under my foreskin. If you don't bathe and wash yourself daily, your penis should be the least of your concerns (I'm sure everybody knows how bad BO or a dirty butt smells like). I once was having this discussion with a female friend about it, and she gave me the worst line I've ever heard, she said: "I just think the uncut penis is dirtier because you don't wash it every time you pee", after my initial disgust with that remark, I told her this: "First of all, most uncut adult males do retract their foreskins when peeing, but that's not important to this argument. Do you realized that you're a woman and you have a vagina? I've seen women peeing closely (don't judge me, all parties involved were consenting adults), and that's a lot more messy than any man peeing, hence the wiping with toilet paper. So, do you wash your vagina in the sink every time you urinate?" She had no comeback for that.
- "It might be an issue during oral sex?" Without going back to the hygiene & grooming subject I already talked about, let's go straight to the facts: Yes, my penis does have a certain discrete odor (even after a washing), but that's how nature intended. The scent is actually called pheromones, and they exist in our sweat glands and genitals (male & female), without it our world would not exist, there would be no procreation happening within any species because animals need pheromones to drive them to mate (hence the term: Dog in heat). My girlfriend said she enjoys oral sex so much more now, because she can actually smell and taste the penis, she claims fellatio with a cut penis is the same as sucking on a finger. I fully understand her point, when I smell her vagina I don't expect (or desire) to smell like strawberries. Hopefully my blunt honesty here didn't offend anybody, I'm just being candid about human sexual behavior.
- "Don't they look funny?" No, it's all about culture and what you're used to seeing. Like I mentioned before, if you grew up away from the US, it looks perfect & normal. Remember that 80% of the world's male population is uncut, so in most people's eyes, circumcised penis are the aberration. The media in the US sometimes does a disservice to this cause, from the famous "Sex & The City" episode, to erroneous reports about a study in Africa that supposedly proved that circumcision reduces to chances of contracting AIDS, those continue to confuse people. My answer to the Africa study: How in the world are you comparing a Third World Country tribe to men in western society? Those people have barely water to drink, much less to keep proper hygiene, instead of circumcision they should be talking about education and condoms distribution.
- "I heard some men will never be able to fully retract their foreskin" Yes, that's called Phimosis, and it only happens very rarely. But the important thing is that modern medicine has several different viable alternatives to circumcision to correct it. And to be very blunt again, masturbation is known to usually fix the least extreme cases. Don't worry, you won't have to teach your son that, he will most certainly learn on his own. When I first "found myself", I wasn't able to fully retract when erect, but a little practice made it perfect.

Just so you don't think that intact males are strange alien creatures from another land, note some famous uncut men of this generation: Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra, all The Beatles (remember John Lennon's famous album cover?), pretty much every European actor you see (expect Daniel Radcliffe who's Jewish), Leonardo DiCaprio, Dane Cook, Ewan McGregor, Cillian Murphy, Jonathan Rhys-Davis, etc. How do I know this? Just do some research and you'll find out.

A funny & weird fact: There's one man that can be mostly blamed for the mutilation of millions of American males in the last century, and his name was John Harvey Kellogg (Dr. Kellogg to some people). He was part of a fanatical Christian denomination called The Seventh-day Adventist Church, and unfortunately he was a very influential man in his time who ferociously advocated circumcision (male and ALSO FEMALE!) as the solution for masturbation and sexual deviance plaguing their society. In case you're wondering: YES! He's also the creator of Kellogg's cereal. Remember that next time you're chewing on those corn flakes and wondering why they look some much like dried mutilated foreskins ... Another disturbing fact: Do you know that after the mutilation occurs, hospitals sell the baby's foreskins for about $35.00 each to companies that manufacture everything from insulin to $250-an-ounce face creams?

Well, hopefully my insights will help expecting mothers to make the right decision and keep their sons intact. I'm not a regular here in this forum, but I'll be more than happy to answer any questions. It might take me a couple days, but if I can stop one mutilation from happening in the future, it's definitely worth my time.
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#2 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 12:26 AM
 
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You're preaching to the choir here, but thank you for your insight!
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#3 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 12:54 AM
 
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Welcome to the forum, Lou!
Most of the women on MDC know how valuable a foreskin is and most of us did not circumcise our sons or will not circucmcise future sons.
But it's good to know you are trying to let parents know about it.
Not all American women are surprised by a man w/ a foreskin either (some of us wish our husbands/boyfriends had them and many partners here are actively restoring their foreskins).

I have never heard about foreskins being used in insulin production. Do you remember where you read that? I do know they are used for things like skin grafts and facial cosmetics.

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#4 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 01:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DreamsInDigital View Post
You're preaching to the choir here, but thank you for your insight!
:

Sometimes the voice of someone who has experienced it can have more sway over a mother's opinions than studies. It's good to have you here.

Homeschooling mom of 2 rambunctious, loving, spectacular boys, wife to an incredible man who has been my best friend on this journey <3

 

 

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#5 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 01:24 AM
 
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Thank you so much for your insights! Agreed that you are preaching to the choir in this forum, but I enjoyed reading your perspective on circumcision.
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#6 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 01:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Fimpke View Post
Hello.... I'm not a woman or a mother, but I just felt like contributing to your Anti-Circumcision forum. I wasn't exactly sure in which exact tread to post this,

Well, hopefully my insights will help expecting mothers to make the right decision and keep their sons intact. I'm not a regular here in this forum, but I'll be more than happy to answer any questions. It might take me a couple days, but if I can stop one mutilation from happening in the future, it's definitely worth my time.
Some more excellent insights from an intact male. Lou hope you'll stick around a while; these wonderful mothers seem to have a lot of the bases covered but it is probably reassuring to hear the first hand experiences that we've had. Plus, like you said, if relating our experiences helps one boy it is definitely worth it. Hopefully, they'll be able to create a sticky for this.
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#7 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 03:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jwhispers View Post
these wonderful mothers seem to have a lot of the bases covered but it is probably reassuring to hear the first hand experiences that we've had.
Definitely! I, like many American mothers, am a little ignorant of the normal functions of the penis. I only know what the wonderful people in this forum have provided.
For me,and likely others, my sons are the first/only intact males I know. Raising them is both a joy and a challenge. Hearing the experiences of intact males is always worthwile.

Homeschooling mom of 2 rambunctious, loving, spectacular boys, wife to an incredible man who has been my best friend on this journey <3

 

 

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#8 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 03:54 AM
 
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Thank you for posting this. It pretty much describes the attitudes in Scandinavian countries too. No one gives any thought to foreskins or retracting...boys find the treasures on their own .

Men's opinions are desperately needed this debate!!!

You should post to other parenting forums too.
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#9 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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Welcome to MDC! You sound like quite an articulate and passionate individual! Good to have you here!

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

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#10 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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Oi Lou! Seja bem vindo ao Mothering forum!

Eu também venho duma cultura que não practica a circuncisão. Os meus pais vem de Portugal e Cabo Verde e ambos países, como o Brasil, não practicam a circuncisão.

It's always good to have other intact men here. I wonder if there's a board where we could gather?
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#11 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 07:59 PM
 
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Welcome and thank you for sharing your lifes experience adn thoughts on being intact. I am sure they will be read by many

I had a good chuckle at some parts

and I am happy to learn Ewan Macgregor is intact. He has to be one of my favorite actors (although his penis has nothing to do with my liking his acting)

Decluttering 500/2010
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#12 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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Thanks for sharing all that. I too had a chuckle during some parts.
I don't agree with the posters that said OP is preaching to the choir because I bet a lot of mamas lurk here that are undecided about circ.

OP, I do have to disagree with one thing though. Women have a foreskin too. The skin that protects the clitoris.

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#13 of 28 Old 01-17-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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I loved reading your post. It was just the right blend of information & humor and please stick around.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#14 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello everybody,

Thank you for your warm welcome!

I'm going try answering a few of questions posted here:

- The Foreskin/Insulin = I saw the articles in different places, but this website explains it best: http://www.foreskin.org/f4sale.htm

- The Ewan McGregor comment = I'm surprised that some of you didn't know about him, he's always talking about his foreskin in talk show appearances, and he's ALWAYS naked in movies. I think I've seen his penis more than my own.... I'm sure if you pay close attention in Star Wars, his penis is featured somewhere. I'll like to shake his hand and thank him for the free advertisement, but I'll just leave that task to one of you girls. This is quote on the subject from Rosario Dawson: "I love Ewan McGregor. He's got a beautiful penis! I'm like: 'Yeah, man, uncircumcised!' That's nice."

- Somebody left me a message in Portuguese, it's been a while since I typed anything in my native language, but I'll give it a shot: Obrigado pela sua mensagem!


LF.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Fimpke View Post
- The Foreskin/Insulin = I saw the articles in different places, but this website explains it best: http://www.foreskin.org/f4sale.htm
Could you copy & paste the insulin part here? It may be sleep deprivation, but I didn't see it in the link I say about treating diabetic ulcers (skin graft) but...

Quote:
I stumbled upon this forum while doing some research for a paper on the origins & myths about sexual mutilation
oooh... I'm assuming it is for a college class? Which one? I live in a college town, and since I'm alumni now, I get to poke my fingers in some clubs and classes. Are there any intactivist student organizations at your uni?

Quote:
...or maybe in their Ewan McGregor's fantasies...
I noticed in the movie Trainspotting (he's naked in that one, too). But I didn't really understand the big deal because two of my brothers are intact and it looked normal to me... I was in high school then.

Quote:
... if I can stop one mutilation from happening in the future, it's definitely worth my time.
Stick around, this is an incredible board

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#16 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 09:09 AM
 
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Your post was extremely informative! Lucky you, to have been born in a culture that doesn't practice circumcision. You can help us overcome many of the myths that perpetuate circumcision in the U.S.
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#17 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 12:16 PM
 
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Welcome!!


Dane Cook is intact my my that's um nice to know.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#18 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 12:19 PM
 
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Welcome!!


Dane Cook is intact my my that's um nice to know.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

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#19 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 01:32 PM
 
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Welcome!!


Dane Cook is intact my my that's um nice to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren82 View Post
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Make that three of us!
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#20 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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Here's why I treasure my foreskin: It's the ULTIMATE insulator. I think of it as my duvet cover: It keeps me warm in the winter ("my foreskin parka"!!!) and cool in the summer.
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#21 of 28 Old 01-18-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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I like to think how im lucky, imagine if it was normal to be in a culture where other mucus membrane areas were removed in males. Lips, the nose, eye lids? It might be creepy for some to think of things that way, but you really start to feel thankful of the body parts you do have. And I guess one of the only gifts of circumcision is being able to be thankful for the parts of the body I do I have, in a way, and to a level most people never even think at.
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#22 of 28 Old 01-19-2008, 04:21 AM
 
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Whatsisface from BattleStar Galactica is also intact I believe, you know, the hot one, Lee Adama..... (Well, thats the character anyhoo).

Funny you should say about Ewan Mcgregor but I don't think I have ever seen his penis (hurries off to look for Ewan McGregor films to hire......).....
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#23 of 28 Old 01-19-2008, 09:07 PM
 
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#24 of 28 Old 01-20-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Fimpke View Post
There's one man that can be mostly blamed for the mutilation of millions of American males in the last century, and his name was John Harvey Kellogg (Dr. Kellogg to some people). He was part of a fanatical Christian denomination called The Seventh-day Adventist Church, and unfortunately he was a very influential man in his time who ferociously advocated circumcision (male and ALSO FEMALE!) as the solution for masturbation and sexual deviance plaguing their society. In case you're wondering: YES! He's also the creator of Kellogg's cereal. Remember that next time you're chewing on those corn flakes and wondering why they look some much like dried mutilated foreskins ...
FYI- JH Kellogg invented the cornflake but had nothing to do with Kellogg's cereal that was his brother who took his invention and decided to make a profit off of it. And you might want to go easy on calling Seventh-day Adventist Church "fanatical", that is quite a generlization and many people will dissagree. I know lots of SDA members and none of them I know would I describe as fanatical.

As to every thing else you said

Livin' surf.gif Laughin' lol.gif Lovin' joy.gif - Just Me and Sammers, my homebirthin' little girl. 

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#25 of 28 Old 01-20-2008, 02:06 AM
 
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oops, posted twice... sorry...
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#26 of 28 Old 01-20-2008, 02:08 AM
 
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I really enjoyed reading your post. Others say you're preaching to the choir but I'm apart of that choir and I learned quite a few things! Thank you so much for sharing that much needed perspective! After reading it I felt an overwhelming sense of relief, "Whew! I don't ever have to worry about my ds retracting!" What a gift it'll be when he discovers for the first time his full anatomy all on his own! Thats really cool!

I appreciate you sharing this. May I please print it out and share it with my pediatrician so he too can get an intact male's perspective?
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#27 of 28 Old 01-29-2008, 01:17 AM
 
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Thank you so much for your post!

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#28 of 28 Old 01-30-2008, 01:01 AM
 
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Just loved this post!

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