Do you feel that circ. is equal to ear piercing in infants? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just curious. I have only girls, so circumcision has never been in the forefront of any direct controversy in my life. I have been lurking about in this forum recently though and have seen that the majority of posters refer to circ. as "unecessary cosmetic surgery." That is basically how I feel about ear piercing, in general. I really don't agree with it even for older children.

What do you think?
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#2 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:00 PM
 
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I feel as if it is in the same vein, but not nearly the same thing. I think people who pierce their babies ears are being selfish and not letting their children decide for themselves to be subjected to pain, but I don't feel that the consequences of this are nearly as devestating as circ'ing, ifkwim.

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#3 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 PM
 
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To me, it is equal in that the infant cannot consent to the procedure, yes.

But it is also not as bad as circ-ing because at least the child can take the earrings out when they get older. Circ'd boys can't reattach their foreskins, and ear piercings don't interfere with any bodily function (sexual function).

My mother let me get my ears pierced when I was in fourth grade. I wanted it done and we had a discussion about how it was going to be painful and I would have to do all the aftercare for it myself. I consented to it, although I'm sure some people would argue that I was too young to consent.

Either way, I would never circ a child or pierce an infant's ears. If my daughter or son asked to get their ears pierced, I would have to evaluate if they were mature enough to consent to something like that, I suppose.
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#4 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:03 PM
 
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no, I can't equate puncturing the ear to cutting off an extremely sensitive, necessary part of genitalia. not at all.

I still think it's wrong to alter someone's body without their approval and consent, though. I haven't pierced DD's ears and won't until she asks for it.

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#5 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:07 PM
 
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I wouldn't really equate them, since ear piercing is not on the genitals and doesn't generally have the irreversible effects that circ does.

However, I personally would not pierce a baby girl's ears, just because it is still a cosmetic procedure and she is not old enough to consent to it herself. My parents waited until I was old enough to decide for myself to get my ears pierced, and we talked about what would happen and what I would have to do to take care of my ears before they let me have it done. I think I would do the same if I ever have a daughter.
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#6 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:09 PM
 
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No. I wouldn't pierce a little one's ears (until they could ask for and consent to the piercing), but it's not like a circ at all, IMO.
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#7 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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I don't think they are the same. I also haven't and wouldn't pierce my children's ears with out them wanting it and being able to understand what it entails. Circcumcision is on a whole different level than ear piercing but they are both altering someone else's body for a cosmetic reason, so in that respect they are similiar. I think equating the too is a way to dismiss the effects of circumcision.

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#8 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:15 PM
 
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i am against any body modification of anyone who cant consent, including ear piercings.

but ive had my ears pierced at least 5 times. the holes grew back together. my ears were none the worse for wear (in the long term).

circ...is IMHO far different.
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#9 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
i am against any body modification of anyone who cant consent, including ear piercings.

but ive had my ears pierced at least 5 times. the holes grew back together. my ears were none the worse for wear (in the long term).

circ...is IMHO far different.
Exactly this (including the number of ear piercings that have grown back together ).

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#10 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
 
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Yeah-I see it as both being without the consent of the child and thats uncool. But its not the same-circumsion removes a huge part of their penis, has big risks, etc, and can never be changed. At least with ear piercing, they can take out the earrings and its hardly noticible.

Having said that, all 3 of my kids have their ears pierced. My son doesnt wear an earing and you cant even see the hole, but the other day he said he wants a hoop in it now, lol. My girls seem to like them....I actually objected to getting my younger one done because my other daughter FREAKED when it was done (my son didnt even cry-I think he was preoccupied by the shiney things in the case), but dh and his mom took her out and got it done without me. My fault for not saying NO I DONT WANT IT DONE...I just kept procrastinating on it.

This baby wont have it done, we've already talked about it and agreed. If he wants it done when hes older, then fine, but otherwise, I'm not doing it

(I had my ears pierced when I was 6 and remember being mad at my mom for not doing it when I was a baby-LOL)

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#11 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
i am against any body modification of anyone who cant consent, including ear piercings.
Exactly. The reason I'm against them is the same, but they differ beyond that, IMO.
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#12 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:50 PM
 
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No.

I don't like infant ear piercing, but when it's done for cultural/religious purposes it doesn't bother me. But it's not the same as circ to me.
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#13 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 01:54 PM
 
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Not even remotely the same.

I had pierced ears. Always got infections/allergic reactions, so I let the holes close. I have 2 little scars, but I healed.

Can't do that with circ. Once it's gone, it's gone. And any adverse reactions are not an easy fix.

Mom to two intact boys, born at home. DS1 11/07, DS2 9/10
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#14 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:22 PM
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neither should be done to an unconsenting child but removal of a body part is much worse than putting a hole through one.
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#15 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:23 PM
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neither should be done to an unconsenting child but removal of a body part is much worse than putting a hole through one.if my parents had pierced my foreskin at least i would still have it with a small scar is better than not having it.
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#16 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:28 PM
 
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I would never pierce the ears of a baby, but if my daughter came to me when she was a little bit older and asked for them, I'd be fine with it.
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#17 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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It's my understanding that this comparison is not allowed to be made on MDC.
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#18 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
No.

I don't like infant ear piercing, but when it's done for cultural/religious purposes it doesn't bother me. But it's not the same as circ to me.
It doesn't matter what reason it's done for, infant body piercing is unethical, because the infant can't consent, which is one of the main reasons against circ, and refusing to get your child's ears or other body parts pierced isn't going to mess him/her(the child) up for life, so if you truly love your child, you wouldn't do it to him/her w/o his/her consent! Infant circ is even worse!

Quote:
Not even remotely the same.

I had pierced ears. Always got infections/allergic reactions, so I let the holes close. I have 2 little scars, but I healed.

Can't do that with circ. Once it's gone, it's gone. And any adverse reactions are not an easy fix.
An infant's inability to consent is also a reason to oppose the practice of circ, so the same should be said for body piercing!
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#19 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 02:53 PM
 
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I do not pierce my children's ears without their consent. My 9 year old son asked to have his ear pierced and I allowed him to and helped him to care for it. When he became frustrated with the healing process and wanted to take it out, I allowed that as well. I would never pierce an infant's ears (and I have a daughter and have been asked many times when I was going to). I do not feel they are exactly the same, but close. I feel circ is worse but ear piercing is not far behind.
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#20 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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Of course of, the impact of a circumcision is much greater.
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#21 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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I think it is improper body modification without consent. That is the way they are the same. I do find it interesting too that ear piercing is a cultural thing and most people I ask cannot tell me the cultural significance which is similar to circing. This is what I hear people say about piercing: "their mom's are pierced", "their family will be upset if they don't", "it is just what people do", "the pain isn't that bad", "they won't remember the pain", "do it when they are young and it is easier to clean". These sound familar to what we hear about circing. I don't believe in tradition for traditions sake especially when it is painful to the child. Plus I am horribly allergic to metal so I am glad my ears were pierced when I was older. My reaction to piercing was very painful.
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#22 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 03:44 PM
 
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Yes and no. I don't agree with either, but I think circumcision is far worse because it removes a part of the body and effects sexual function for life.

Casey
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#23 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 03:47 PM
 
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The only similarity is that piercing ears or whacking off foreskins on infants are both cosmetic modifications done without the owner's consent.

Piercing ears leaves a tiny hole which in no way alters the function of the ear. Not only that , but if left alone the hole generaly closes up. No harm done.

Circumcision permanently removes the most sensitive part of the penis, destroys much of the sexual mechanics of the organ and compromises the owner's sexual satisfaction for life.

So, the ethics might be similar, but the end result is only devastating for the penis.
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#24 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 03:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meowee View Post
It's my understanding that this comparison is not allowed to be made on MDC.
This is an appropriate discussion as long as it remains respectful. What we will not host is arguing and bashing.

For some cultures, the piercing of ears is a cultural event with associated meanings and celebrations. It is fine for us to discuss these meanings in an effort to understand them. If discussion gets too involved in the culturea aspects it will likely be moved to Parenting Issues. Please remember it is not ok to malign another's culture.

Please keep this in mind as you post.

Taking the moderator hat off now...

My opinion is that a comparison can be made between infant circ and infant ear piercing in that both are cosmetic alterations done to a child without the child's consent. I would never do either to a child.

From a physical standpoint, there are vast differences in the long term effects of each act.

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#25 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 04:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by asunlitrose View Post
To me, it is equal in that the infant cannot consent to the procedure, yes.

But it is also not as bad as circ-ing because at least the child can take the earrings out when they get older. Circ'd boys can't reattach their foreskins, and ear piercings don't interfere with any bodily function (sexual function).
I agree to this. My godmother's youngest daughter insisted to get their earrings done and she paid to get them done when my oldest was asking for it and the little one got them too (she was very young to figure it out or to ask for it). They didn't cry at all and the little one kinda enjoyed seeing herself with earrings in the mirror. Then they got infected (my youngest) and my oldest lost hers. I didn't want to do it again until the little one would ask me. My mothering instinct were kicking big time. Just recently they got them done again, this time around they both asked me

But I don't think is the 'same' as circ. I have done my own second piercing in my ears and they do not hurt. I did them with the earring itself call me crazy! Just the fact that they should ask you for them, it makes it somewhat similar.

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#26 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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I think it is comparable because of the bodily intergrity and the owner of the body to decide what to do to it and how it should look.

 
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#27 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 07:31 PM
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I think the comparisons is sensible, but I also think circumcision is much worse
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#28 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 07:37 PM
 
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HELL NO!!!!!
a hole in a ear is nothing like chopping of a peice of a childs body that has a function.
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#29 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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I don't like the comparison, personally. I can see some similarities, but frankly, I think comparing the two does more harm than good. It either diminishes the damage done by circ'ing or it blows the harm of ear piercing out of proportion, imo.

I also don't like it when circ'ing is referred to as "unnecessary cosmetic surgery."

To me, "unnecessary cosmetic surgery" is stuff like ear piercing or mole/birthmark removal or that thing where they sew back big ears...... stuff like that.

Circ'ing destroys a functioning body part! It's comparable to removing the entire outer ear, not just punching a hole in the ear lobe.

And for parents of only girls....... I think a good comparison would be removing your daughter's pinkie toes, you know... so she can fit into pointy-toed shoes better. Have you seen how small those baby toes are?! You could just snip them right off, probably wouldn't even need to numb it up first. Just think how much she'll thank you down the road when she can walk around proudly in her fashionable pumps ((BARF))
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#30 of 50 Old 05-23-2008, 10:10 PM
 
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No, it's not equal to circ.
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