it keeps bugging me...re: Dr. Sears - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 09:56 AM
 
catholic74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by latinalonestar View Post
Getting kick off forums for being anti-circ, what a load of BS!!! You know I almost got kicked off mine for putting Intactivist in my siggy.

I feel that way on THIS FORUM about being pro-life. It is tolerated, but I'm kept on a very short leash and have been "reprimanded" twice for expressing myself a little too much in that area! It's frustrating. I feel very censored, but at the same time, I do understand that such issues can lead to heated debates and high emotions so I try to just focus on what I have in common with folks on this forum, which is a lot! I truly feel at home here. Mothering just speaks to my heart and my way of life. I'm grateful for it.

As for Sears, I'll write him a letter. It irritates me too. I was a huge Sears fan and I still am, but have cooled off a bit as I became more and more non-mainstream. I guess even Dr. Sears is not counter-cultural enough for me! I do have many of his books on my shelf. I especially loved his breastfeeding book. Still, I'll write him a letter. Oh, I saw over in the vaccination thread that some ladies feel similar towards Robert Sears concerning his stance on vaccinations. Some felt he was a bit too mainstream even though he supports delayed vaccination and alternate schedule.

:
catholic74 is offline  
#32 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:00 AM
 
asunlitrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sears Family Pediatrics
26933 Camino De Estrella, Suite A
Capistrano Beach, CA 92624
949-493-KIDS(5437)
949-493-0535 fax

DrSears@AskDrSears.com

As far as I know, that goes to everyone, not just Robert.
asunlitrose is offline  
#33 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:07 AM
 
LavenderMae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I write my own posts!
Posts: 13,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
>

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
LavenderMae is offline  
#34 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
Yulia_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lafayette, CO
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlh View Post
So Dr.Sears tells the parents it is wrong and then does it anyway?How do the parents explain that to their son?The doctor said it was wrong and we decided to do it anway and the doctor knew it was wrong and he did it even though he told us it was wrong?How would the doctor explain this?I knew it was wrong and did it because?
I bet he does NOT say that it's wrong...not many doctors have guts to say that, unfortunately
most anti-circ doctors just say there is no medical reason for it, it's unnecessary, blah blah
Yulia_R is offline  
#35 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
Yulia_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lafayette, CO
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asunlitrose View Post
"Painless circumcision should be a birthright...
the guy got all confused here : it's the whole body which is a birthright! :
Yulia_R is offline  
#36 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:52 AM
 
MaterPrimaePuellae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asunlitrose View Post
"A local anesthetic can and should always be used. Painless circumcision should be a birthright. I have used a local anesthesia in nearly a thousand babies over the past twenty years. It is a safe procedure and it works. Sometimes the anesthetic will not remove all the pain, but it certainly helps."

I don't understand him. He uses the word "intact," he says there's no medical reason a few times in the section, and talks about how teasing, "look like the father," and disease make no compelling arguments.

An INTACT penis should be a birthright.

He also says anesthesia works but in the next sentence says it might not.

He's circumcised over a 1,000 babies.
:

Sears, William, M.D., and Martha Sears, R.N.. The Baby Book: Everything you need to know about your baby from birth to age two. 2nd ed. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 2003. Pg. 33
Full disclosure-- I like Dr. Sears , so I'm inclined to give him more credit than i would probably give otherwise...
I have read this book, too, but my understanding is that the wording of this section (which I believe is also in Christian Parenting and Childcare?) has not changed in 15 years. Maybe he doesn't actually perform them anymore but keeps the "I have used anesthesia" segment so that parents who are determined to circ will demand this from their doctors. Just saying, "Circing is very bad, do not do it" would certainly appeal more to me and most of those on this board, but it might be alienating to most main-stream parents. I believe that Bob uses similar tactics in his vaccine book... i.e, he doesn't disclose what he himself does with his own children so to be more middle-of-the-road (and I think there was a rumor which circulated here that his younger children are not vaxed? I have no source for that at all).
The whole Sears family may have mercenary motives for this middle-of-the-roadness (and I am a bit more extreme myself), but in any case, it works. They have done SO much to make AP more common and more "acceptable." I have a good friend who is considering natural childbirth, baby-wearing, etc, and it's almost entirely because of Sears and the fact that he is not frighteningly fringe. I also have friends who do not circ because of what they read in Sears. So even if, yes, he could have come out and been more clear and perhaps less hypocritical (and I do agree with PPs who have said that a doc who knows that circing is wrong and does so anyway is the worst of the circing offenders), this passage in the book is not enough proof for me that he is currently performing medically unnecessary circumcisions.

But hey-- it can't hurt to write a letter to the office and get some direct information from the source!

ooh-- and Catholic74-- I completely agree with you!

Aspiring to 1 Thessalonians 4:11.Wife to Dh, 2004. Mother to DD 3/07.
So thankful for our healthy baby boy, born Easter morning, 2010!
MaterPrimaePuellae is offline  
#37 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 11:00 AM
 
jessjgh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 4,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the dr sears that wrote for Mothering recently was his son. Same name.. although he goes by dr bob.
One of the sons (at least) is very pro-intact- I believe that is Dr Bob, but can't back that up other than surmise on other threads here.
The current version of the book has different wording (I believe) can't look it up now.
Jessica

Jessica..lady.gifintactlact.gif Falling in love all over again..... 
Dhprivateeyes.gif, Joshua rolleyes.gif Rebeccagrouphug.gifand dog2.gif.    candle.gif for Laura
jessjgh1 is offline  
#38 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 12:12 PM
 
DocsNemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I make milk..whats your superpower?
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, I definately agree that regardless, its hypocritical. And I definately see a difference in wording as well-spewing facts about how it isnt necessary, but I use anesthesia so its not as bad, really isnt going to discourage nearly as many people (it would have still stopped me but only because I was seriously THAT clueless, lol). Saying no, you shouldnt do this, it isnt good, it's going to hurt regardless-we all know that even with effective anesthesia it hurts after the fact-there are risks, etc etc and not even saying "but I still do them...." would be VERY different.

My midwives use this way of talking to discourage parents and it works very well. Those who still want to do it, have to watch the circ video. If (BIG if) they STILL want it done, they are referred out. I dont think they tell them they wont do it just because they want them to listen and want them to be willing to watch the video. I highly doubt Dr. Sears is going that far-though we could be wrong-and obviously if the parents still want it done he says ok, I'll do it....perhaps being forced to find another doc to do it would hit it home for some or be too much effort? I dunno, but as I said, maybe his reasoning is that IF its going to be done, it should be done right. I think its flawed reasoning but again, as a doctor, I would rather see it done by myself than someone I didnt know and see some horribly botched job of it....I guess....gah I dont know, I'm not a doctor!!! lol

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
DocsNemesis is offline  
#39 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 12:16 PM
 
LavenderMae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I write my own posts!
Posts: 13,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not to mention the pain of circumcision isn't the only reason it's wrong.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
LavenderMae is offline  
#40 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 04:25 PM
 
asunlitrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessjgh1 View Post
the dr sears that wrote for Mothering recently was his son. Same name.. although he goes by dr bob.
One of the sons (at least) is very pro-intact- I believe that is Dr Bob, but can't back that up other than surmise on other threads here.
The current version of the book has different wording (I believe) can't look it up now.
Jessica
The most current version of The Baby Book is the one I cited.
asunlitrose is offline  
#41 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 04:29 PM
 
asunlitrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsNemesis View Post
Yeah, I definately agree that regardless, its hypocritical. And I definately see a difference in wording as well-spewing facts about how it isnt necessary, but I use anesthesia so its not as bad, really isnt going to discourage nearly as many people (it would have still stopped me but only because I was seriously THAT clueless, lol). Saying no, you shouldnt do this, it isnt good, it's going to hurt regardless-we all know that even with effective anesthesia it hurts after the fact-there are risks, etc etc and not even saying "but I still do them...." would be VERY different.

My midwives use this way of talking to discourage parents and it works very well. Those who still want to do it, have to watch the circ video. If (BIG if) they STILL want it done, they are referred out. I dont think they tell them they wont do it just because they want them to listen and want them to be willing to watch the video. I highly doubt Dr. Sears is going that far-though we could be wrong-and obviously if the parents still want it done he says ok, I'll do it....perhaps being forced to find another doc to do it would hit it home for some or be too much effort? I dunno, but as I said, maybe his reasoning is that IF its going to be done, it should be done right. I think its flawed reasoning but again, as a doctor, I would rather see it done by myself than someone I didnt know and see some horribly botched job of it....I guess....gah I dont know, I'm not a doctor!!! lol
I feel like lots of doctors use this reason for still performing circumcisions. "If it's going to be done, I can do it so it's done right."

But for me, if you feel circumcisions are wrong and know they have no medical merit, the only way to truly keep them from happening on such a large scale is to stop performing them! If it's harder to find a doctor to perform it, that says volumes about the procedure itself.
asunlitrose is offline  
#42 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 04:35 PM
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: next door to majikfaerie
Posts: 10,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsNemesis View Post
I do think its very two faced to say no, dont do this, and then do it himself. I would hope that at least he very much discourages his patients parents.

However, I could almost see wanting to do it yourself if the parents were determined. As the circ'er, he could be sure they are getting anesthesia, that its working well before its done, perhaps do a very *lose* circumcision....I dunno, I know I couldnt do it ever myself, but even I recommended a mohel to my friend because its so much faster and he did a very very lose circ (he doesnt even seperate the glans and the foreskin-he pulls the lose skin forward and cuts the excess off and tells parents not to pull it back until it will on its own...definately still a painful and unecessary surgery but at least its a little better I guess). She didnt listen and did the gomco crap in a doctors office with no pain meds. Ugh.

In any case, Id be interested in hearing more about why and how he does it from himself before completely hating him for it.
That is the way circ's were supposed to be done traditionally. When compared with the high and tight cut it all of circ, this sure seems less barbaric.

senior majikfaerie cult member
Tinker is offline  
#43 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 08:52 PM
 
aprilv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
here's a link to the sears website that addresses circ:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp

i think that's pretty obviously anti-circ, refutes common arguments, talks about benefits to not circ, etc...

but when i did a google search i did see a couple of pages where he is more middle of the road (aka 'either way your little boy will be fine'), not cool!
aprilv is offline  
#44 of 49 Old 07-03-2008, 10:48 PM
 
asunlitrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilv View Post
i think that's pretty obviously anti-circ, refutes common arguments, talks about benefits to not circ, etc...
That's what confuses me so much about this quote (on page 2 of this post, from The Baby Book (2003, most recent edition)):

"A local anesthetic can and should always be used. Painless circumcision should be a birthright. I have used a local anesthesia in nearly a thousand babies over the past twenty years. It is a safe procedure and it works. Sometimes the anesthetic will not remove all the pain, but it certainly helps."

He prefaces that with this whole section on circumcision and how it's unnecessary, but he still performs it.
asunlitrose is offline  
#45 of 49 Old 07-04-2008, 12:48 AM
 
DocsNemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I make milk..whats your superpower?
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
He seems very wishy washy, thats for sure...

And yeah, I told my friend about the old way bris was performed and that her mohel did it that way...I know we cant go into religious stuff on this forum, but lets just say she was using being Jewish as an excuse in the end-she admitted later she just thought intact penises are ugly (thanks lady, my son is intact )

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
DocsNemesis is offline  
#46 of 49 Old 07-04-2008, 11:22 AM
 
latinalonestar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
If a doctor actually states that he refuses performing this surgery because it's harmful/mutilative, I STRONGLY believe that NO parent in right mind will go for it.
If, on the other hand, they were told there is no medical reason for it, it's unnecessary, blah blah, but I do perform them with adequate anesthesia, so your baby won't be in pain, I totally see some parents going for it.
ITA
latinalonestar is offline  
#47 of 49 Old 07-04-2008, 11:24 AM
 
latinalonestar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wonder if he does it "loose" or if he removes all the foreskin. Not that it matters b/c all circ is bad, but it would be interesting to know.
latinalonestar is offline  
#48 of 49 Old 07-10-2008, 07:15 AM
 
pigpokey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 3,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
If a doctor actually states that he refuses performing this surgery because it's harmful/mutilative, I STRONGLY believe that NO parent in right mind will go for it.
Unfortunately one complaint about Alpharetta, GA's Dr. Kute on a board was that she went all ballistic over someone saying they were going to circ their son. Now did she really go ballistic or did she just surprise the parents by giving them a very strong opinion that they should not circ their son? I'd guess the latter. However, they just left the office, circ'd and went to another doctor for the next checkup.
pigpokey is offline  
#49 of 49 Old 07-10-2008, 09:49 AM
 
MarnieMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern Cal
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dr. Sears was a valuable resource for my husband and I when our first son was born in the early 90s. He was a respected physician who did not seem fanatical and his book was instrumental in us keeping our first boy intact (and the others followed suit). I was troubled by his more middle of the road stance recently. I can't locate my old copy of the book, but my recollection was he basically stated that routine circumcision had no validity and that the practice was probably on the way out. Lately he seems much more tame
MarnieMax is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off