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#61 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 08:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maiaminna View Post
My then-husband "insisted" when I was pg with our 2nd and 3rd children (we didn't find out the sex). I made up my mind that, if they were boys, any doctor they saw would know where I stood and be threatened with a lawsuit for circumcising without my consent, and I simply wouldn't leave them alone with exH long enough for anything to happen behind my back. I was planning to go to court over it if necessary.
But they were both girls, and my 2nd husband is intact himself. :
Your exhusband wanted to circumcise tow boys? Or girls? I don't understand. Is he Jewish,it sounds so fanatical.
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#62 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 09:52 PM
 
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We discussed this long before we got married.

My father was fanatically and obsessively anti-circumcision, so my then DBF got to hear about what an issue it was and my opinion as well as my father's. He agreed that neonatal circumcision is wrong despite the fact that he himself was circed.

No way in hell would I have ever given in and let DH "force" me to get our DS circumcised. But DH knows that and knows with my personality that I would never back down on that issue in a million years.

I have a friend whose husband recently "forced" her to let their son be circed and her level of cowardice is pretty disgusting to me. She also is having her son vaxed on schedule despite having misgivings because that's what some authority has told her to do. Pathetic.:
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#63 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 09:54 PM
 
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It's an "over my dead body issue" for me. Luckily DH agrees. If he insisted there would be a court battle. It would be very, very ugly.
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#64 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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My ex insisted. We didn't know if we were having a boy or girl when I was pregnant, but we really thought the baby would be a boy. I just let the issue go and didn't say anything because I didn't want to fight. Luckily we had a girl so it was never an issue. But my plan all along was to say no after the baby was born. I was hoping the exH would change his mind when he saw him....and even if he didn't, I had the last say.

Now my ex is very much against circumcision
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#65 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 10:08 PM
 
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This has been a huge issue with my boyfriend (not yet husband) but he knows that circumcision is something I will not stand for, and I will not even marry him unless he agrees to leave our children intact. Luckily he understands this and has given into me. I'm not sure he agrees that circumcision is wrong yet, but at least he has agreed not to do it. I'll keep giving him info though because I think it's important that he educates himself.

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this, and so so sorry for your boys.
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#66 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 10:25 PM
 
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Only if dh had kept insisting would I have considered telling him I would divorce him as it was my dh saw how upset I was and relented his only rule was that when ds came to me and asked why he was different from dh I would be the one to explain it. I told him I would be more than happy to

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#67 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiaminna
My then-husband "insisted" when I was pg with our 2nd and 3rd children (we didn't find out the sex). I made up my mind that, if they were boys, any doctor they saw would know where I stood and be threatened with a lawsuit for circumcising without my consent, and I simply wouldn't leave them alone with exH long enough for anything to happen behind my back. I was planning to go to court over it if necessary.
But they were both girls, and my 2nd husband is intact himself.
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Originally Posted by wowsa
Your exhusband wanted to circumcise two boys? Or girls? I don't understand. Anyway,I didn't know there such fanatics,was it something religious,is he Jewish?
The pg's turned out to be girls not boys is what she ment.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#68 of 85 Old 08-12-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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I do believe the moms who were resorting to divorce have hit the other options. Just as I did not go straight for "you won't be n their birth certificate." (in fact in my situation, I never had to go there, but I would have if need be.) I started with an article, talked about circ, tried to educate him a bit and then we discussed. When he had a problem with it still, I told him that I had researched the subject, and if he wanted to have a say in it then he needed to do research FOR circ. He did not care that much. If he had pressed the issue further I would have pushed further and straight up refuse to have it done. I would have gone to any length to stop it from being done.

I think the reason so many women went straight to divorce in this situation is b/c the OP has had two sons circ'd, one when she was against it. So this isn't a case where the mother hasn't put her discomfort and education about the subject out there. I don't think most moms go that lightly into divorce talk. This is in situations where they tried other resources FIRST.

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#69 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 03:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
To some this may sound a little harsh - but i would leave him. I could never in a million years allow my baby to be mutilated because my husband wanted it that way. Theres no way our marraige could last, and frankly it would be a hill i would die on. I love you hubby - but our kids come first.
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#70 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Thursday Girl View Post
I think the reason so many women went straight to divorce in this situation is b/c the OP has had two sons circ'd, one when she was against it. So this isn't a case where the mother hasn't put her discomfort and education about the subject out there. I don't think most moms go that lightly into divorce talk. This is in situations where they tried other resources FIRST.
I have two circed sons and I was uncomfortable with it both times. That said, it's my signature that allowed both of those circs to happen. I take responsibility, although I did it because my husband had very strong feelings about it.

For me, what changed as we now expect boy #3 who will be intact, is that I decided that I'm in charge and I will refuse to sign. The power was really in my hands the whole time, I just didn't feel entitled to claim and use that power in the past.

So I'm all for mothers to basically make this decision unilaterally, to tell their husbands it's not happening, I will not consent, period, and allow the DH's to disagree, but not compromise on the baby's safety.

I wish I had understood this earlier, that it was in my baby's best interest for ME to be 100% in control of the circ decision, rather than believing that really I have to have DH on board or to get his blessing to do what I want.

I'm in the category of moms who sacrificed two sons for my husband's happiness, and I'm living with that responsibility and guilt...... but.... I am also responsible for creating this very positive change in our family for our third son.

It was all up to ME, all along.
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#71 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 09:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
That said, it's my signature that allowed both of those circs to happen.
Yes, exactly (not said to make KBecks feel bad, but in response to the OP and those who feel powerless when DH/DP "insists").
I can't imagine any hospital, at least in the US, that would circ a newborn without the mother's consent. In all my years of nursing, I've never known the Dr. to seek the dad's signature on a consent form. To put it bluntly, the hospital knows you are the mother, they saw the child come from your body. They don't know your dh is the father. If married, they assume, but they don't know. And because of that, the mother is not mandated to put any man on the birth certificate as the father. And because of that, the hospital would open up a whole messy can of legal worms if they allowed consent from someone who wound up not being the legal parent.
One would hope it wouldn't come down to it, but a mom could tell her dh/dp that she wouldn't put his name on the birth certificate unless he agreed not to circ.
I just want to say that while I can't imagine this happening in the hospital (mother's signature bypassed for dad's consent), I do see how it could happen later at the pedi's office. If two parents disagree, I'd make sure the pedi knew ds wasn't to be circed ever and to call me if dh took him in for the procedure.
I don't know if it's been posted but maybe these articles might help your dh understand where you're coming from with your feelings on circ. -

http://www.noharmm.org/appeal.htm
or
http://peacefulbeginnings.org/Onebaby (this has graphic photos in the link)

But honestly OP, if your first son had a horrible circ and your spouse still wanted to risk a circ w/ the second child, there's probably not a lot you can do to convince him otherwise. You might just have to put your foot down.
Good luck!

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#72 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 10:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Night_Nurse View Post
I can't imagine any hospital, at least in the US, that would circ a newborn without the mother's consent. In all my years of nursing, I've never known the Dr. to seek the dad's signature on a consent form. To put it bluntly, the hospital knows you are the mother, they saw the child come from your body. They don't know your dh is the father. If married, they assume, but they don't know. And because of that, the mother is not mandated to put any man on the birth certificate as the father. And because of that, the hospital would open up a whole messy can of legal worms if they allowed consent from someone who wound up not being the legal parent.
One would hope it wouldn't come down to it, but a mom could tell her dh/dp that she wouldn't put his name on the birth certificate unless he agreed not to circ.
Just personal experience - and knowledge gleaned though my lawsuit against the hospital (I can only attest to my state here though) - In CT, if you are married, the husband is by law assumed to be the father of the child - even if you state that he is not. His name is automatically on the BC and it requires a court order with proof of another's paternity to change that.

In the hospital, the father can sign for anything. When I was refusing all treatment for DD, they tried to coerce DH into signing the forms for them. It would have been perfectly legal and I would have had no recourse. I think in most cases hospitals will bow to the mother just to CYA - but legally, I think the father has as many rights to decision making as the mother.

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#73 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
I have two circed sons and I was uncomfortable with it both times. That said, it's my signature that allowed both of those circs to happen. I take responsibility, although I did it because my husband had very strong feelings about it.

For me, what changed as we now expect boy #3 who will be intact, is that I decided that I'm in charge and I will refuse to sign. The power was really in my hands the whole time, I just didn't feel entitled to claim and use that power in the past.

So I'm all for mothers to basically make this decision unilaterally, to tell their husbands it's not happening, I will not consent, period, and allow the DH's to disagree, but not compromise on the baby's safety.

I wish I had understood this earlier, that it was in my baby's best interest for ME to be 100% in control of the circ decision, rather than believing that really I have to have DH on board or to get his blessing to do what I want.

I'm in the category of moms who sacrificed two sons for my husband's happiness, and I'm living with that responsibility and guilt...... but.... I am also responsible for creating this very positive change in our family for our third son.

It was all up to ME, all along.
This post was very helpful to me. Just what I needed to hear. Thank you.
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#74 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 12:05 PM
 
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i am so glad my dh is European and agrees w/me about circ! we disagree about several other "hotbutton" issues, but at least the circ thing is a no-brainer for him

my ex wanted our firstborn to be circ'ed. i made him come to the birthcenter with me and watch a video of a circ being done, and he was like, OH. so i won

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#75 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 12:10 PM
 
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In CT, if you are married, the husband is by law assumed to be the father of the child - even if you state that he is not. His name is automatically on the BC and it requires a court order with proof of another's paternity to change that.
yeah, it requires signatures all around, from the guy who IS the bio dad but not assumed to be, by the guy who's ASSumed to be the bio dad but isn't, and by the mother corroborating both stories. O-o

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#76 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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If my DH forced me to circ my kids, I would hate him so much I would never want him to touch me again. I would be repulsed. And THAT would lead to divorce.

By divorcing him before the circ happened, at least my child would not have to endure the pain and physical and emotional scars of it.

But it did not come to that. I would have done it if I had to, but I simply put my foot down.

My parents are divorced. My dad suffers from PTSD and my mom is bi-polar. We were poor and unstable a lot of the time. I switched schools like 5 times. I did not have an easy childhood, let me tell you. But I would choose that anyday over having my genitals sliced up without my consent.
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#77 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 01:02 PM
 
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Luckily my dh hates being circ'd and is an even bigger intactivist than I am so it was never an issue.

However, I was prepared for a fight. My oldest isnt his biological son and wasnt circ'd, so when I met my dh he was 18 months old already. I wouldnt ever let one of my sons be circ'd, I just couldnt do it, and I would literally divorce my dh over it if need be. This isnt anything against you so please dont take it that way-this is just how I feel about it-I just couldnt do it, period.

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#78 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 04:58 PM
 
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to you and your family. I hope you can be at peace with this.

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#79 of 85 Old 08-13-2008, 05:23 PM
 
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Luckily I didn't have this problem (DH is intact), but if DH tried to force or coerce me to consent to any unnecessary medical procedure, on our children or myself, it would be a deal breaker.

It shows a lack of respect, which is a deal breaker, period.
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#80 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 03:04 AM
 
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That is not a man i would want to be with, or could be with, that would be deal breaker for me.
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#81 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 12:53 PM
 
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You are right-if it came down to divorcing over circ, then there are greater issues. Namely, lack of willingness to compromise or to listen to one another. Yeah, I'm against circ-but anyone can listen to the simple arguement that you cant undo it once its done. You cant. Regardless of anything else there is the simple right to a whole body and I wouldnt take that away from ANY of my children-female or male.

Leaving him alone leaves the option to get circ'd later if he chooses to. Circing him as an infant does not leave the option to magically get his foreskin back as an adult. And then there are risks and then pain involved....I just couldnt do it.

I love my dh with all my heart and I know that he, even if he were pro circ, would listen to my side and would see how much I dont want this done, how much it would hurt me, and would let it go. Yes, there are more problems in a relationship when a man-or woman-is so deadset on something their partner is so horribly against and knows it will greatly pain them and then still insists on it being done. If you dont care about causng that kind of pain not only to your infant but to your wife or hubby, there is a problem. And as someone else said, even if I were to let go and let it be done, there would be no way I could look at my dh again without feeling repulsed. I am that against this practice and that against anything that hurts my children-I mean, I hated even having the PKU done!!!

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#82 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 06:31 PM
 
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my dh was insistent at first, but i strategically put out circ books throughout the house where he would stumble upon them and when he said he was concerned about the whole "looking like each other thing" I reminded him that he won't even be naked in front of our 2 year old daughter. I also asked him if he knew what his dad's penis looked like and if there was some "super-secret father/son sword-play game" that I was unaware of that the two of them would be participating in.... thankfully, he is "okay" with our son being left intact, but I have already made up my mind that our son will be left intact when he is born, regardless of dh's opinion....

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#83 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urchin_grey View Post
Luckily, my son's dad feels the same as I do.

My sister's boyfriend... not so much. They fought her entire pregnancy over it, (and even more so after they found out it was a boy via u/s). Then he begged her to do it the whole 3 days they were in the hospital - he bribed her, he offered her money, he told her that she could pick the name, he told her that he would "let" her breastfeed/cloth diaper/etc, and even threatened to leave her. He literally threw a fit in the middle of the hospital and my sister had to have him removed by security.

Yes, it was hard on my sister to go through all of that. But it would have been a lot harder to live the rest of her life if she let them do that to her son.
O.M.G.

But, good for your sister. Wow.

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#84 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 07:31 PM
 
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Only had time to read the first and last page.

But what if mom insists too? Why does he get more of a say than you?

We never knew gender beforehand with each of our three kids. We originally (when pregnant the first time) assumed we'd circ if it was a boy, but then I THANKFULLY attended a pregnancy and birth discussion that had a NOCIRC booth. I bought a book for $5 or $10 that changed my entire view, and really opened my eyes. Dp wasn't convinced, and we fought about it quite a bit. He was convinced we must, and I was just as convinced that we couldn't.

Three girls we have. How ironic. But between dd1 and dd2, our best friends (who happened to have been married to each other) had their first son. In a hospital. We went to visit them. Their ds is getting circed and my dp and baby's dad are outside the circ room door waiting for baby. A nurse walked in or out and my dp got an eyeful. He came back to my friend's room white as a sheet and we left. I thought he was having a heart attack or something. He explained what he'd seen and said we were NEVER going to do that if we had sons. So he went from 100% for it to 100% against it.

I like the argument that it can always be done later if DS chooses, but it can't be undone. It is HIS body.

OP, I am sorry your partner forced you - twice - into something you knew was wrong. That will be hard to forgive and forget. I'd call it a high price for learning that you have to stand up for your sons, even when it is very, very hard to do.
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#85 of 85 Old 08-14-2008, 09:06 PM
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I would write on my child's tummy with a permanent marker "DO NOT CIRC" and refresh it every day if needed. And if my husband somehow managed to get it done anyway, I would consider it cause for divorce and burning of all of his worldly goods.

Fortunately for me, I do not have this problem, as my beloved husband was blessed to be left intact and thinks that circumcision is sadistic.
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