Do you guys think male circ will ever be illegal? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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At least in our lifetime?
I honestly can't believe it is still legal now!
How long do you think it will take for people to take their heads out of their ***** and stop this barbaric surgery?
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#2 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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I certainly hope not!

I'd love to see insurance companies no longer paying for the procedure. I'd love to see it become so rare that you won't have every OB and pediatrician comfortable doing them. But, for the sake of religious freedom, I wouldn't want to see circ become illegal.

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#3 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 01:01 PM
 
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I definitely hope it does. I agree with religious freedom, but that doesn't make cutting our babies right. FGM is illegal in the US, even though some religions dictate that it should be performed. MGM should most definitely be illegal.

I am going to be the optimist and say, "yes" I think it will become illegal in my lifetime, or at least my son's.

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#4 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 01:03 PM
 
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I really really hope so.

Basic human rights trump religous freedom, imo.
And thats all I can say on that matter as we are not to discuss religion here...

Mama to ds 6/00 and dd 1/09
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#5 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 01:11 PM
 
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i think it will if people would stop wasting their time trying to prove how useful circ is for this reason or that.. i dont care if you believe in god, or science, or circumstance or w/e boys have a foreskin for a reason and to think we are oh so much smarter then the universe and know that it is better to remove it for health risks then we are just arrogant. and as far as the reasoning of looking like other people.. um thats a dumb reason.. if you were an amputee would you cute off your childs arm to match? no. and people see your arms wayy more then your penis. and as far as it being unneeded skin.. we know this is not the case.. but even if it was.. we dont know everything sheesh.. and its **** not a good reason to remove it just because you dont think they need it

as far as religious reasons to be fair they are much more gentle then ric but none the less i think it should be legal for adult men to get circd if they want to ... so if it is a religious thing they can have it done as an adult. b/c as long as it is legal at all its gonna keep happening in hospitals etc. many insurances dont cover it and people pay out of pcket. wth.
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#6 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 01:18 PM
 
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Yes. I think it will become illegal one day. The current laws protecting girls from circumcision make no exemption to cultural, cosmetic, hygienic, religion, or medically unnecessary reasons. She also must wait to the age of 18 before undergoing the operation herself. The 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution states that, “…everyone has the same protection under law and shall not be deprived of that equal protection.” It is clear that fully protecting girls from any form of genital cutting but not boys is unconstitutional. Intact genitals are the birth right of both genders, not just females. If a man decides on his own that he wants to undergo circumcision after being informed, then he is entitled to make that decision. There is a danger if boys are not allowed the same protection lawmakers and politicians may find the laws protecting girls from circumcision unconstitutional and allow parents to liberally circumcise their girls for any reason as well.

When it does ((ONE DAY VERY SOON)) become illegal, will it stop? I don't think it will stop. Not anytime soon anyways but it will be rare. Just because its illegal, it will probably continue until it becomes repulsive by our culture. Conditioning a culture will take quite some time.

Driving while intoxicated is illegal but people still do it. Murder is illegal but it still happens. The difference is, those crimes come with a cost. So, when said person commits forced genital reduction surgery on a newborn and children without an immediate medical need (which is very rare) while its illegal, it will be a crime PUNISHABLE by Law. Protecting American citizens of their inalienable freedoms is long over due. Yes, male children are human beings and they deserve their freedoms protected.
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#7 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 01:55 PM
 
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I really hope that infant circumcision will be but I doubt it will be in my lifetime (I'm 25). I think the circ rates will continue to go down (but maybe not as fast as we'd like due to the new studies that "prove" (HA!) that circ reduces the risk of HIV). Hopefully, in my children's generation, it will become very rare and then finally be made illegal.

I do not think that adult male circumcision should be illegal. It is cosmetic surgery and if a consenting male wants it done, that's his decision.

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#8 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 02:59 PM
 
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I don't think it will ever become illegal, but I do believe it will become so rare one day that it is almost unheard of. I am hoping that when my grandchildren start having their babies, they will be shocked to hear what Americans used to do to baby boys.

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#9 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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I am working very hard to see that it does become illegal in my lifetime. I'm not so sure it will...but I have hope still.

I do believe that in my lifetime those that mutilate their sons will be considered the pariahs that those that still mutilate their daughters already are.

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#10 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie View Post
I definitely hope it does. I agree with religious freedom, but that doesn't make cutting our babies right. FGM is illegal in the US, even though some religions dictate that it should be performed. MGM should most definitely be illegal.

I am going to be the optimist and say, "yes" I think it will become illegal in my lifetime, or at least my son's.
I agree with everything except I'm not as optimistic and I don't think it will become illegal but hopefully it will become very rare. But no doubt it should be illegal just as FGM is here, boys deserve no less.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#11 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 03:18 PM
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I don't think it will be illegal any time soon. The vast majority of people see it as a parents' rights issue.
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#12 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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One day perhaps. But not anytime soon. I don't even think it will necessarily be within our lifetime. Most of the reasons have already been mentioned but primarily it is still being done regularly today and considered by many to be a parents rights issue. I suspect the former will eventually be worked down to perhaps 10% or so and we will hang there for sometime. Hopefully it will continue to reduce over time but I think it would have to be a nearly trivial levels for a generation or two before strong legislation could be past.

Of course at that point will there be anyone who will even think to propose it? How's that for an interesting question?

ETA: I put forward the thought that the only reason FGM became illegal is because people heard about it going on in other parts of the world heard it might be being imported from those parts of the world and, being a completely alien concept, quickly legislated against it. If nobody picked up on the issue the law wouldn't have been passed because of course nobody would do that to a little girl is how the thinking would go, if the thought even entered anyone's mind. If circumcision got to residual levels the and stayed there the thinking would be the same.
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#13 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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No, because it would be unconstitutional. It's a First Amendment Rights issue.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Judaism and Islam are mainstream religions in the U.S.
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#14 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 05:13 PM
 
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In my lifetime? I tend to doubt it, I'm already middle aged though

I hope it does at least in dd's lifetime.
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#15 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 05:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulla View Post
No, because it would be unconstitutional. It's a First Amendment Rights issue.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Judaism and Islam are mainstream religions in the U.S.
This is not as concrete as one might think. In SCOUS Prince v. Massachusetts (1944) the court upheld the ruling of a Massachusetts court decision that having Jehovah Witnesses children engage in the proselytizing, which is central to their faith, was a violation of child labor laws. Other parts of this Amendment, and others, are occasionally restricted as well. The conditions certainly don't exist to have a favorable out come such as this in the case of circumcision in the foreseeable but it could happen.

ETA: The US government also doesn't recognize polygamist marriages which is claimed to be a tenant of some Mormon sects. While I know that the main church disavowed them before Utah became a state, this was done in part by pressure from the federal government as a condition of statehood. So much for the First.
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#16 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 05:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie View Post
I definitely hope it does. I agree with religious freedom, but that doesn't make cutting our babies right.
I agree with this, I don't believe in doing this to a baby even for "religious" reasons.

Unassisted birthing, atheist, poly, bi WOHM to 4 wonderful, smart homeschooling kids Wes (14) Seth (7) Pandora Moonlilly (2) and Nevermore Stargazer (11/2012)  Married to awesome SAH DH.

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#17 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 07:55 PM
 
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I hope so. I wouldn't expect to see it for another 20 years at least, but I don't think it's impossible.
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#18 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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: but it will be a long brutal uphill battle with many boys being hurt along the way

 
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#19 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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I hope it becomes illegal, but I don't know if it will anytime soon. I hope it continues to become less and less common, and eventually unheard of.
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#20 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 08:29 PM
 
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I think by the time i become a grandparent (hopefully 20 years from now, LOL) it will be extremely rare if not illegal.....*fingers crossed*
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#21 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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I can recognize that some of us would hope male infant circ become illegal one day, but isn't it amazing that some of us are also against making male infant circ illegal, just because of religious reasons? I'm sorry, but basic human rights, esp. genital integrity, should trump religious freedom, not the other way around.
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#22 of 48 Old 08-17-2008, 11:37 PM
 
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I certainly hope it will, but I think it will require a massive social/cultural change and the rates will need to plummet to very low levels on their own before it is made illegal. As far as the religious thing, I try to respect that but an infant cannot consent to joining a religion. I don't practice the religion I was baptised in, but a splash of water was harmless; genital cutting is permanent. You have full religious freedom to make your own choices when you turn 18....then have at it as far as I'm concerned.
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#23 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 04:41 AM
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I do.Back when female circumcision was banned I don't remember any women saying they had been circumcised as children and wished that they hadn't been.But now men circumcised as babies from all walks of life wish they hadn't been and are saying so.If our politicians saw fit to ban it for the the very few girls that would be then all of the men that are should make a difference.
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#24 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 07:42 AM
 
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i wish that we wouldnt have to wait for the circ rate to be really BEFORE it is illegal. at that point its like oh ok the trend is over i guess we can pass a law now.
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#25 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 08:08 AM
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i wish that we wouldnt have to wait for the circ rate to be really BEFORE it is illegal. at that point its like oh ok the trend is over i guess we can pass a law now.
Very true.Stealing and drunk driving are pretty popular and everyone knows they are wrong so they are illegal even though quite a few people do them.Everyone knows cutting parts off of someone's body without their permission is wrong so why isn't it illegal even though it is popular?

From what I have read most insurance companies quit paying for female circumcision by the late 1970's and in 1996 it was banned.Insurance companies started to quit paying for male circumcision in the 1980's so as soon as most stop covering it most likely it will be banned.
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#26 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 11:36 AM
 
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No, I do not think it will be illegal in our lifetime, or even in my chidren's lifetimes..... but I do think rates can and will drop dramatically.... Maybe it will get down to 10-20% or less in the US....

The reason I think it will not become illegal is due to the fact circ is tied to some religious practices, and legislating religion is just not easy or appropriate.

I do think that in my life and in my kids' lives, many people will have a change of heart about circ and reject it in their families. If no one chooses it, it doesn't matter if it's legal or not.
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#27 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I certainly hope not!

I'd love to see insurance companies no longer paying for the procedure. I'd love to see it become so rare that you won't have every OB and pediatrician comfortable doing them. But, for the sake of religious freedom, I wouldn't want to see circ become illegal.

Babies born with NO religion. when they are 18, they can definitely make a choice of what religion to adopt (if any).

For the sake of human rights and human freedom, I absolutely hope circ on minors will be illegal as it is in some countries, including USA (but unfortunately, here is applies only to females and no one is bothered by the lack of religious freedom when it comes to that).
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#28 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I certainly hope not!

I'd love to see insurance companies no longer paying for the procedure. I'd love to see it become so rare that you won't have every OB and pediatrician comfortable doing them. But, for the sake of religious freedom, I wouldn't want to see circ become illegal.
Exactly my thoughts (and I am the mama of 2 intact boys)

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#29 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 11:52 AM
 
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Babies born with NO religion.
I disagree with this statement.

My children are born into Christianity. As they grow, that may change but they are born into the family of Christ until they choose to disassosiate with that.

They are not magically spiritual at age 18. They are born spiritual beings.

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#30 of 48 Old 08-18-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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I think male RIC will likely become illegal in the US during our childrens' lifetime. I think there will probably be a religious exemption.

Expecting a boy? Be sure to check out MDC's Case Against Circumcision!
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