Cleaning a Circumcised baby - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
grendal82002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I dont know if this has been dicussed before, but one of they many reasons parents circumcise boys if because of the cleanliness issue and the eas factor. They dont want to pull back the foreskin and clean it. They feel its too much work and too invasive and its much easier to have it cicumcised. Yet today they way doctors are circumcising boys, the information they get on cleaning their child (however wrong it may be) is to pull back the remaining foreskin and wipe it. This is kind of a paradox to me, they are circ'ing because they want to avoid this, yet they have to do it anyway. Don't they see a correlation here? This world confuses the hell out of me.
Because at the same time when you leave the child intact your not suppose to pull it back so it ends up being less work and much much easier.

I dont undertand this world.
grendal82002 is offline  
#2 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 09:43 AM
 
buckeyedoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wonder if the idea that it's hard to clean an intact baby began in the days when doctors recommended parents force the foreskin back and clean underneath it. That had to be painful for the babies and a big struggling PITA. I agree with you that cleaning a circumcised baby, at least soon after the surgery, would be a much bigger hassle. Even after healed, it would be equally easy to clean them IMO.

Katie (36)
 
Married mom to Patrick (2004), Noah (2006) and Liam (2010) VBAC!!
winner.jpg                                        nocirc.gif                                  jumpers.gif
buckeyedoc is offline  
#3 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 10:32 AM
 
BlessedMommy2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by grendal82002 View Post
I dont know if this has been dicussed before, but one of they many reasons parents circumcise boys if because of the cleanliness issue and the eas factor. They dont want to pull back the foreskin and clean it. They feel its too much work and too invasive and its much easier to have it cicumcised. Yet today they way doctors are circumcising boys, the information they get on cleaning their child (however wrong it may be) is to pull back the remaining foreskin and wipe it. This is kind of a paradox to me, they are circ'ing because they want to avoid this, yet they have to do it anyway. Don't they see a correlation here? This world confuses the hell out of me.
Because at the same time when you leave the child intact your not suppose to pull it back so it ends up being less work and much much easier.

I dont undertand this world.
That's really interesting. Could you give me some sources to look at on this one? I didn't know that in most or all circs, that they normally left a piece of the foreskin there. That would be a GREAT argument against circ!
BlessedMommy2006 is offline  
#4 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 10:57 AM
 
Anastasiya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedMommy2006 View Post
That's really interesting. Could you give me some sources to look at on this one? I didn't know that in most or all circs, that they normally left a piece of the foreskin there. That would be a GREAT argument against circ!
They don't leave a "piece" of it, they just take less off. The tighter circs of the past led to adult erection issues, so now it's more common to remove less foreskin, which leaves a lot left sometimes that bunches up around the head of the penis and sometimes tries to reattach itself to the glans. Docs recommend pushing the skin back to clean and keep adhesions from forming.
Anastasiya is offline  
#5 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 11:08 AM
 
BlessedMommy2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancta View Post
They don't leave a "piece" of it, they just take less off. The tighter circs of the past led to adult erection issues, so now it's more common to remove less foreskin, which leaves a lot left sometimes that bunches up around the head of the penis and sometimes tries to reattach itself to the glans. Docs recommend pushing the skin back to clean and keep adhesions from forming.
Gotcha! And boy do I know about the circs of the past, lol. My DH's tight circ and resulting problems is one reason why we won't be circing any future sons.
BlessedMommy2006 is offline  
#6 of 20 Old 09-01-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Greg B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dover, DE, US
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedMommy2006 View Post
Gotcha! And boy do I know about the circs of the past, lol. My DH's tight circ and resulting problems is one reason why we won't be circing any future sons.
Not to hijack this thread, but keep in mind that it is possible to restore your husband's foreskin. And he can simply restore just enough to get a little more skin so there is less a problem too, if he chooses and does not want to invest the time and effort in going all the way. It is not an either or.

Feel free to pm me, if you wish, regarding this. And there are many resources both at the top of this section and on the net. Just search for foreskin restoration.

It has been well worth it for both me and my wife. WELL worth it. Hard to overstate it actually. Just amazing the change...

Cheers!
Greg B is offline  
#7 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 01:05 AM
 
needhelpplease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Taking care of an intact infant is definitely easier (and cleaner) than taking care of the circ wound which is there for at least a week or two.

And yes I hear so much about boys getting adhesions from the circumcision especially if it's a "loose" one, and the parents being told to retract daily to break those down! Sometimes they are even given steroid cream to help this process (the same cream given to teenagers with tight foreskins).

So they circumcise to avoid retracting the foreskin, mistakenly, and have to do it anyway?! It's insane.
needhelpplease is offline  
#8 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 08:01 PM
 
Treece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Planet Earth, most days
Posts: 957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just have to say that it is 100% easier to take care of an intact infant. Cuz it's no fuss. I love my two sons and there is no way I would ever consent to taht, esp after I learned what it incvolved.

Oh, and procircers can be turned. I, my dp, and my best friend all were. Till i educated myself, him, and she was with an intact.

intactivist.gifwinner.jpg fambedsingle2.gif  learning.gif homeschool.gif buddamomimg1.png gd.gif delayedvax.gif selectivevax.gif  supermod.gif (Yeah right)

angel3.gif loss 2/28/03           photosmile2.gif  ds 1/5/08             asl.gif dd 2/8/10
 
When we know better, we do better. ~Maya Angelou 

Treece is offline  
#9 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 01:54 AM
 
tcowgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
does anyone know WHY it's important to keep adhesions from forming on a circumcised penis?

don't they just disappear when he turns 4 & the leftover foreskin retracts & exposes the glans permanently?

(background: I regretfully got my son circ'ed, he's now having major adhesions, i'm trying to figure out how best to take care of him now & not mess him up further... please don't judge... i feel bad enough already)
tcowgirl is offline  
#10 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 02:39 AM
 
perspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by grendal82002 View Post
I dont know if this has been dicussed before, but one of they many reasons parents circumcise boys if because of the cleanliness issue and the eas factor. They dont want to pull back the foreskin and clean it. They feel its too much work and too invasive and its much easier to have it cicumcised. Yet today they way doctors are circumcising boys, the information they get on cleaning their child (however wrong it may be) is to pull back the remaining foreskin and wipe it. This is kind of a paradox to me, they are circ'ing because they want to avoid this, yet they have to do it anyway. Don't they see a correlation here? This world confuses the hell out of me.
Because at the same time when you leave the child intact your not suppose to pull it back so it ends up being less work and much much easier.

I dont undertand this world.


You have to remember there is nothing rational about routine infant circumcision. So do not be surprised when the actions of parents who circ, seem irrational.

There is no logic in removing a body part so it does not have to be cleaned, or because the area could become unhealthy. This logic was applied to all body parts, we would no body parts left.
perspective is offline  
#11 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 02:46 AM
 
bremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reinickendorf
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcowgirl View Post
does anyone know WHY it's important to keep adhesions from forming on a circumcised penis?

don't they just disappear when he turns 4 & the leftover foreskin retracts & exposes the glans permanently?

(background: I regretfully got my son circ'ed, he's now having major adhesions, i'm trying to figure out how best to take care of him now & not mess him up further... please don't judge... i feel bad enough already)
adhesions don't just disappear from circed boys. i am a direct care worker for adults with disabilities, and every man but one that i have done direct care on has been circed, and of those, all but one has had adhesions. these are adult men primarily in their mid-to-late 20s, but some as old as 55.

i do not know how to treat adhesions, but i do know that they don't just retract.
circ leaves a wound, and scar tissue forms. the way post-circ adhesions form is different than a natural foreskin that has not yet retracted.
bremen is offline  
#12 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 03:45 AM
 
MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: With Vin Diesel ;) YUMMMM
Posts: 14,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcowgirl View Post
does anyone know WHY it's important to keep adhesions from forming on a circumcised penis?

don't they just disappear when he turns 4 & the leftover foreskin retracts & exposes the glans permanently?

(background: I regretfully got my son circ'ed, he's now having major adhesions, i'm trying to figure out how best to take care of him now & not mess him up further... please don't judge... i feel bad enough already)
Adhesions = possible complications later on down the road since they do NOT always release. If all depends on where the adhesion is and how bad it is. Complications including a space under the adhesion that is hard to clean and gets sore because of it my dh has this, adhesions so large that they cause the glans to be pulled sideways causing pain during intercourse.

There is no magical age ie 4 that retraction happens in both circed and intact it can be anytime between puberty and adulthood before total seperation is achieved. The difference is the natural attachment when they are intact release as mother nature intends. When the boy is circed then the foreskin reattaches to heal the damage and it isnt the exact same connection anymore so it may not release as it should especially if trauma happens ie yanking it loose over and over.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

MCatLvrMom2A&X is online now  
#13 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 03:52 AM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have never understood the cleaning argument. Ever.

I'm a woman. I have MANY folds - far more than an uncircumcised penis. Yet, neither my parents when I was a baby or child, nor I, now, have ANY issues in cleaning myself.

So, I just don't understand why they have stuck this cleaning excuse for penises. I mean, it's a penis - way less folds than a vulva. It's not rocket science. There's no need to fool around with it by liftings things or pushing things. No one did that to me as a child, so I don't see why they'd do it to male newborns.

Now, as an adult (sorry if it's TMI) I clean all the ... uh nooks and crannies. And, I know adult men clean their nooks and crannies. So, why this big deal about cleanliness in male uncircumcised newborns?

I just never understood the argument.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
#14 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 04:18 AM
 
Katielady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 2,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bremen View Post
adhesions don't just disappear from circed boys. i am a direct care worker for adults with disabilities, and every man but one that i have done direct care on has been circed, and of those, all but one has had adhesions. these are adult men primarily in their mid-to-late 20s, but some as old as 55.

i do not know how to treat adhesions, but i do know that they don't just retract.
circ leaves a wound, and scar tissue forms. the way post-circ adhesions form is different than a natural foreskin that has not yet retracted.
So what should this mama do as far as care for her newborn? I'm confused because I've read on this forum many times that if the remaining foreskin on a circed baby starts to reattach to the glans, that you should leave it alone and it'll probably retract on its own later on. Is that not true?

I feel so badly for the mamas who circ and later regret it. It must feel awful, especially when there are complications. tcowgirl, I hope you get some good info on your situation soon.

SAHM to 6.5yo DS and 4yo DD. PCOS with two early m/cs. Married 8 yrs. Certified birth doula, writer, editor.

Some stuff I like: hbac.gifteapot2.GIFeat.gifnocirc.gifbftoddler.giffemalesling.GIFcrochetsmilie.gif read.gifcat.gif

Katielady is offline  
#15 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 05:49 AM
 
mntnmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the main reason parents buy into the "it's cleaner" arguement, is that's all they've ever heard. Who has dinner table discussions about smegma and retraction? Okay, we do at my house, but most families don't.

The first advice most folks get is the "sagely" advice from their mom while expecting their first boy. Advice 20-30 years out of date!!

Non judgemental, informative discussion is the best solution to everything from RIC to teen pregnancy IMHO.

Mom of 4 aspiring midwife "Friend"ly seeker
mntnmom is offline  
#16 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 03:56 PM
 
3pink1blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
THis was my SIL's argument. She really and truly thought that it was better to circ. She has two little boys ages 3 yrs and 6 months, both circed. It wasn't until a couple months ago that she learned (thru me, via you guys here at MDC) that you didn't have to do anything at all to the intact penis. She now feels awful about having her boys done, because she never knew.

I wish mainstream parenting magazines and stuff woul publish more about the actual care of the intact penis. SO many otherwise smart people are uneducated about this. I know there are often articles on whether to circ or not, why can't they put an article in there just on care alone? It would clear up a lot of confusiuon, I think.
3pink1blue is offline  
#17 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 06:44 PM
 
nd_deadhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katielady View Post
So what should this mama do as far as care for her newborn? I'm confused because I've read on this forum many times that if the remaining foreskin on a circed baby starts to reattach to the glans, that you should leave it alone and it'll probably retract on its own later on. Is that not true?

I feel so badly for the mamas who circ and later regret it. It must feel awful, especially when there are complications. tcowgirl, I hope you get some good info on your situation soon.
Since it is very difficult to prevent adhesions, even if you slather on a ton of Vaseline at every diaper change, I think the best bet is to just let them develop if they are going to, and leave them alone. Continually tearing adhesions apart can cause not only an open wound (in a diaper area), but create scar tissue, which can cause major problems later on. One wound/development of adhesions/natural resolution causes much less damage.

If the adhesions don't resolve on their own, or if the adhesions are causing the boy problems, then stretching and steroid cream can be tried. In some cases, the scarring is great enough that another operation is required to resolve the problem. How's that for a kicker? An operation to fix problems caused by an operation you didn't need in the first place?

My health insurance doesn't cover infant circumcision - it is listed as cosmetic surgery. Furthermore, it does not cover complications from cosmetic surgery. So if someone on my insurance plan had a son who needed corrective surgery for their circumcision, they would have to pay for it out of pocket, and we're talking thousands of dollars.

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

nd_deadhead is offline  
#18 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 10:36 PM
 
tcowgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thankyou so much! your email makes me feel supported I feel so terrible I wish I knew what to do now. (of course i wish i'd known enough to leave him intact in the first place) I just want to do the best I can not to mess him up even more. Some people say yank on it every diaper change, some people say leave it alone and it'll retract on its own... now in this thread it sounds like those adhesions won't go away (?) ...so maybe I should be yanking on it? I feel so bad when I do because it looks like it would hurt him.
tcowgirl is offline  
#19 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 10:43 PM
 
tcowgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
originally posted by BREMEN:
"adhesions don't just disappear from circed boys. i am a direct care worker for adults with disabilities, and every man but one that i have done direct care on has been circed, and of those, all but one has had adhesions. these are adult men primarily in their mid-to-late 20s, but some as old as 55."

--------------------------------
could i ask (just so i understand) - how many of them have the whole glans (including the entire rim) permanently exposed?
tcowgirl is offline  
#20 of 20 Old 10-08-2008, 10:46 PM
 
Microsoap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Please just leave his penis alone. It's already been through a major trauma and whether intact or circ'd, there's absolutely NO reason to manipulate his penis or ANY boy's penis (whether it be his foreskin if intact or the remaining foreskin covering part of his glans if circ'd... whether it's adhered or not).

The adhesions WILL go away. It's like this:

They now circumcise "loosely" so for a baby or even a toddler, some or even most of his glans will be covered with the the remaining foreskin.

The foreskin is there to protect his glans from rubbing against his diaper/underwear. But as he gets older he "grows into" his circ. So over the first few years, more and more of his glans will become uncovered and it will eventually have a little 'fringe' of foreskin bunching up behind the rim of his glans like you see in circ'd boys and adult men w/ a loose circ.

Mothers here w/ circ'd sons have mentioned the discomfort their boys face as more and more of their glans become covered. Some boys purposely TRY to pull at the remaining foreskin to cover up the part of their glans that was otherwise protected. Sadly, it's a losing battle!!! Some boys will even have two-toned glans. The bottom half (from the meatus to where the remaining foreskin starts) is dried out and dull in colour and less sensitive. But the rest of the glans (from the remaining foreskin starts all the way up to the top half of his glans; to the rim) is moist and rich in colour and more sensitive. But as the newly exposed glans become kernalized (sp?), it will match the rest of glans (the bottom half) and the two-toned glans disappears [there might be an ever so faint line mid-way on his glans].
Microsoap is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off