Situational vaccination - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh. I am starting to think I messed up BIG TIME. My nearly 13 yr old DS has been ill with pneumonia, and our typically non-vax friendly pedi has been putting the press on to give him a flu shot. She said the one they give is a split cell one, and that the whole cell shot (which most adults get at flu shot clinics and employee health flu shot promotions) does indeed cause you to actually get sick with flu (some vax, eh?). Realizing that flu deaths tend to come from resulting pneumonias, I figured that perhaps this situation of DS getting over flu would be an appropriate situation to actually get a flu shot. But I feel kind of stupid for it. He'll be getting vitamin c and acidophilus starting today, though.

Pedi was also asking about a few others (DTaP, Hep A, and varicella booster) which I said nope. Actually the varicella is more of an absolutely no, and will never even consider it kind of no. The Hep A, I really am not down for him getting the vax for, and as for DTaP the diphtheria is so rare, tetanus you have 72 hours to get it after an injury, and pertussis just no. So I was given the infamous declination form and I said I took issue with how the form made the parent look like a big idiot but there was nothing on there to state that I understand that GETTING the vax could result in illness, adverse reactions and death...or that the physician would sign to state the same. She said I could bring my own form in, too. Which I have some copies I got from here that I could use. But the thing is that when the docs ask me about "what are your concerns" and "Why don't you want vaccinations?" I get so flustered that I kind of choke. I'd love to have the ability to give them a great cellular immunology explanation to justify non vaxing, or to be able to say "I am strongly religiously opposed" and just leave it at that...but I end up all "guhhh....". I've never ever had difficulties with impromptu defenses until this.

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#2 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 01:36 PM
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"I do not believe the risk of vaccine-available disease outweighs the risk of a vaccine reaction."

"Vaccine-available diseases are treatable. Vaccine reactions are not."

"Vaccines are not right for our family."

"I believe vaccines are dangerous and ineffective."

"I'd rather not discuss this right now. We will not be vaccinating today. Should I pay the receptionist at the front desk?" Repeat ad nauseum.

Doctors try to get you to argue with them because they know they can intimidate you with a superior education...never mind that many doctors have very little knowledge of even basic immunology, will prescribe antibiotics for viral infections, etc. Don't fall into the trap of having to explain yourself to these people--you'll most likely be countering their pharmaceutical company pamphlets with actual facts. Who wins in that situation? You're not approaching the "debate" from the same depth of knowledge.

It's enough that you just don't want to vaccinate. That is your absolute right and you don't have to be bullied. If you start to feel pressured or uncomfortable, leave! They work for you, not vice versa.

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When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty. --George Bernard Shaw

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#3 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 02:42 PM
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I hear ya! I get the same way with the docs. I just say now I am religiously oppossed 9they really can't say anything to that!) I have heard from many other non vaxing moms that trying to explain your concerns about safety is really just waste of time and breath. Not many docs won't take issue with that and give you all sorts of "medical evidence" as to why you are wrong and they are right and then you get into a debate...Not worth it. Stick to the religion or simply state I have my reasons and if they press say they are personal reasons and not up for discussion.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#4 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gothmommy View Post
tetanus you have 72 hours to get it after an injury,
I think you mean TIG?

The T vaccine does nothing for a current injury

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#5 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 03:52 PM
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Wait, am I misunderstanding? Your Ped is recommending giving your child the flu vax while he is recovering from pneumonia?

If that is the case, I'd find a new one. That is nuts.
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#6 of 11 Old 12-19-2008, 04:14 PM
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"We do not vaccinate; our decision is not up for discussion."

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#7 of 11 Old 12-20-2008, 12:42 AM
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I'd start looking for a new doctor. You shouldn't have to explain yourself to your pedi. Either they accept your decision or not. It sounds like the doctor is changing his/her stance and becoming more pro-vaccine, especially if they ask you to sign the "bad mommy" form.

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#8 of 11 Old 12-20-2008, 02:18 AM
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It depends on why you don't vaccinate. The biggest reason I don't vaccinate is because I don't think they work as described. There is no reason to expose my child to the dangerous additives if it won't prevent disease.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#9 of 11 Old 12-20-2008, 02:40 PM
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Now they're making people this frantic about the flu. Soon there'll be vaccines for headaches and muscle sprains.

You know, the RtV forms really only make sense if the doctor is pro-vax. It's nothing more than a fear tactic. It's not required by law. The wording is flawed and biased. And as you said, the doctor isn't signing anything on the other side of the coin. So the question is why should you? Find a new doctor. That's not a suggestion either. If any doctor presents me with the RtV again, I'm not even going to discuss it. I'm just going to leave immediately. It's a disgusting practice manipulating good, decent parents into putting their name on something that basically describes them as intentional murderers.
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#10 of 11 Old 12-22-2008, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
Your Ped is recommending giving your child the flu vax while he is recovering from pneumonia?

If that is the case, I'd find a new one. That is nuts.
A big :

Not to mention, the flu (viral) and pneumonia (bacterial) are two very different things. A flu vaccine isn't some miracle "cover-all" vax ... heck, imo it doesn't even prevent the damn FLU.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#11 of 11 Old 12-22-2008, 07:42 PM
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Once a dr has been able to pressure a patient to vax with 1 they start in with the other ones. Even if they seemed to be ok with it before. They found a weak spot and went for it.

When they ask "What are your concerns" Say, "My concern is the issue at hand." or "I don't have any concerns thank-you." Some drs can really get stuck on the issue. Just repeat the answer you are happy with over and over and over. It should come out naturally next time you encounter the questions. I wouldn't even bother with statistical or scientific evidence. If they cared they would have looked before you came in.

Spero: Pneumonia can be caused by viri, it can be caused by a whole host of infections even fungi or parasites. Flu can cause pneumonia.

Expecting #9.  Always busy hsing.
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