Encouragement and support needed after a stupid ped visit... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 28 Old 12-23-2008, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Frustrating trip to the Ped



I guess I'll introduce myself first.
I am Katie, I lurk here all the time to soak up info!! I have 4 babies and we use all natural health care when possible.
I had to take 3 of the 4 to the pediatrician yesterday for well baby checks. We usually don't do these cause we don't vax, but had to so they would sing off on our forms for WIC.
We saw a NP who seemed very nice, but of course thought my kids were so sick that they needed albuterol, flovent, and even wanted to give them prednisone. I declined the steroid but accepted the inhalers just to humor her. I won't be giving it to the kids at all.
They all have colds and she heard them wheezing, none of them have fever and are all eating, drinking and playing like normal. I am not worried.
She proceeded to say that she felt they would end up in the hospital cause they were so sick.
She then asked me if she could send a home health nurse to the house to check on the kids. I said sure, just wanting to get out of there.
Sure enough the social worker from the hospital called me!!
I just feel like I am being watched and people think I am putting my children in danger.
I feel like I am doing the best possible thing for my DC by not giving them all these harmful meds. I feel like I know when to worry.
So anyway, I am a little worried about the home health nurse visit. I hate defending my choice to not vax, or medicate.
I guess I just need a little encouragement from someone that I am doing good. My DH is totally for the mainstream medical model of care so I don't get any support from him.
Novel, Finished.
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#2 of 28 Old 12-23-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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I don't feel that you've done anything wrong. Are you giving them anything at all?--Like Vitamin C. When I was taking it before my DD was born, I had mentioned it to the nurse--who was a very nice, young lady, and she warned me not to tell anyone else. So, just as a warning, if anyone asks what you're using on them, you might not want to say too much. I think it's ridiculous when a water soluble vitamin is a red flag, but extremely high doses of antibiotcs are actually forced on you.
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#3 of 28 Old 12-23-2008, 07:07 PM
 
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I can understand regarding the vaccines, etc. However, asthma is very serious and if the Dr. heard wheezing and prescribed asthma meds then I wouldn't take that lightly.
You can help your kids gets through the cold and wheezing with keeping the room moist and having them drink lots of clear fluids. Make sure they avoid milk.
If they express to you at all that they are having trouble breathing or are not having progressive coughing then I would definitely use the rescue inhalers (albuterol).
The steroid inhaler may not be necessary because it is more of a long term treatment.
But don't feel nervous about using them if your children are really having trouble breathing. Asthma drugs are wonderful and have saved lives. I know because they have saved my life.

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#4 of 28 Old 12-23-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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Or what they could have is bronchitis. I had both when I was a child. I was pretty much wheezing every other week. I was given drugs and inhalers and they honestly did nothing for me no matter which I was experiencing at the time. What helped me a ton was changing my diet. And for asthma attacks, I'd just bend over the back of a chair, concentrate on relaxing, and breathe deeply. I don't know if it works for everyone, but it was a method I read about in one of our old medical books, and it worked for me.
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#5 of 28 Old 12-23-2008, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think if it was bad enough either way DD and DS would act sick, or have fever.
When we used to do the ped all the time, wheezing was this huge dangerous thing. When I took DD to the naturopath for wheezing she told me that it was very normal for the children to have some wheezing when they have a cold. She gave me some remedies and DD got well without any meds. I am currently giving her the remedies and waiting for it to run it's course or get worse in which case I will start her on the flovent.
I really appreciate all the help!!
Thanks ladies!!
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#6 of 28 Old 12-24-2008, 12:00 AM
 
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while i don't have any experience with the inhalers etc.. I do know that if ANY home health nurse or health dept worker does contact you, you can always A) decline to speak to them or B) refuse to discuss vaxs with them. it is annoying and unfortunate, but we have to explain ourselves all of the time.. yet if they are concerned about their current sickness vaxing or not vaxing has no place in a convo with them.
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#7 of 28 Old 12-24-2008, 11:03 AM
 
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For the home health nurse to come visit, there has to be some paperwork files. The social worker may have been calling to assess if there is a real need to have a visiting nurse. There is such a demand for public health/visiting nurses that there are some pretty concrete critera for a patient/family to qualify.

Also, not all nurses are ambassadors for the allopathic medical establishment. Some of us really do listen to patients and respect their health descisions You may luck out and meet a great nurse

I will say though that it is difficult working with the medical community when you have health beleifs that are on the outside of what's accepted medical practice. Even I have a hard time going to the pediatrician's office. To be honest, I take the passive route and avoid the WBV and take the children in on my own schedule.

Best luck to you, you are doing fine. It will be a beautiful day when the allopaths develop some humilty and perspective and stop thinking that thier way is the only way.
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#8 of 28 Old 12-24-2008, 02:46 PM
 
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I would make an appointment with an MD then call to cancel the home visit and tell them you are going to take them to your Dr. instead. I'd go the Dr. if only to CYA.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#9 of 28 Old 12-24-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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You are doing good mami. The very best. The right thing absolutely, and through and through. Be confident, in yourself and with the nurse. You have nothing to second-guess, or be afraid of.

YOU ROCK, MAMI!!!
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#10 of 28 Old 12-28-2008, 01:31 AM
 
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I'd worry less about them "siccing" the home health nurse on you because I do not think that is what is happening. I think the NP is SCARED because you have THREE children "newly diagnosed"/"newly exhibiting" symptoms of asthma.

I knew NOTHING about asthma. My 3 y.o. daughter developed wheezing with her ribs retracting. We went through h--- and back trying to get her stable and to get her asthma managed. We went through things like taking her to the ER and needing to go back hours later and daily pediatrician visits three days in a row to get her stablized -- and this is despite scads of medication.

Asthma is VERY SERIOUS chronic illness. It also can be VERY SERIOUS in small children, with children very quickly becomingly life-threateningly and emergently ill. I BEG you to educate yourself more instead of making flip decisions that you are not going to give your children the albuterol, etc. You are much more likely to have your children require hospitalization or face an emergency or permanent damage that you don't want to go through. Educate yourself, please.

It's pretty common for insurance companies, clinics, etc., to have a home health nurse visit or work with families new to serious chronic illnesses, like diabetes and asthma, because education and compliance are so critical.

I think the NP just was scared that you have THREE children exhibiting potential asthma signs -- asthma isn't diagnosed until the children are older -- and knew you had a monstrous task ahead of you to get educated about your children's asthma/wheezing and its treatment.
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#11 of 28 Old 12-28-2008, 04:18 AM
 
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I wouldn't be so quick to judge. We can't say with any certainty what her children have. Wheezing isn't necessarily a sign of asthma. There could be other causes. MarineMommy never said the doctor even mentioned asthma. Also, my doctor was the proactive type who prescribed drugs for symptoms he expected rather than simply what I had. If their doctor is like this, the drugs given really don't prove anything.
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#12 of 28 Old 12-28-2008, 05:11 AM
 
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First- I'm sorry your kiddo's are sick. That's never fun.

Second- you DO NOT have to see a ped to get your wic checks. I don't vax and get wic. I tell them that I don't vax, and that I won't do their blood tests- we object to any medical treatment that isn't life saving. They weigh the kids right there and problem solved. Period.

Now- to your ped. I have a very asthmatic LO- my youngest. It just seems strange that they SUDDENLY have what sounds like severe asthma. If you think this is more related to their cold- get them over their cold. THEN go back to the ped and see if they are still wheezing or rattely. If not- you can pretty much rule out asthma. Keep an ear out on their chest. You will know if they are in distress and NEED an inhailer. I currently have a virus and have been coughing and feeling SO yucky that I got an inhailer. Not ideal- but I feel horrible.

As for the social worker. You don't have to let them into your house unless they have an appointment. (unless you are on welfare- you sign a waiver admitting them anytime) If you don't want them out- tell them over the phone that you have changed your mind and you DO NOT want them comming out.

I would also find a new doc. Find someone that's more alternative friendly. An osteopath, or family practicioner.

Hugs!

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#13 of 28 Old 12-28-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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WIC Eligibility & Vax
"Immunization records and/or an infant/child’s immunization status are in no way tied to the receipt of WIC benefits. "

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#14 of 28 Old 12-29-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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I get WIC. I have never gotten anything from my Dr...

I told them I stopped vaccinating and do not do well visits. I got my checks and was on my way!
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#15 of 28 Old 12-30-2008, 06:09 AM
 
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buttercupmama: No, we shouldn't judge. But you have no way of knowing if the problem is bronchitis, asthma, or something else. None of us do.

I think the doctor thinks your kids are sick. My son didn't *seem* all that sick at the beginning of this year. But he had a cough and wasn't sleeping normally. He ended up in the emergency room for hives, and, while there, they said he had a type of bronchitis. They gave us a nebulizer to use. Jack hadn't been napping or sleeping well, as I said. Well, that night, we were supposed to give him a treatment at 2am. We thought he'd wake up before then anyway, as he had been doing so for several days. When I went in the room I realized that I couldn't hear him breathing. This was a good thing! The nebulizer had cleared him up enough that he could breathe and sleep normally. Now, whenever he gets wheezy, he asks for a breathing treatment. He knows it makes him feel better.

Get a second opinion, but please don't assume that your kids are OK. Doctors can be useful sometimes. Whether it's asthma, allergies, bronchitis, or just a cough, it's best to make sure.

Good luck!


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#16 of 28 Old 12-30-2008, 07:34 AM
 
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Just wondering how your kiddos are doing now?

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#17 of 28 Old 12-30-2008, 08:23 AM
 
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I just wanted to throw this out incase it is asthma[though I think three kids getting asthma all at once is weird and not likely. ] I haven't had an asthma attack in almost a year which is when I started drinking raw milk!! Usually in the winter months I have an asthma attack about weekly but not this season!
Otherwise I'd just do all the normal stuff for the colds[which it probably is] warm tea, hot showers, vit C, etc.

Hope everyone feels better!!

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#18 of 28 Old 12-30-2008, 10:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MadameXCupcake View Post
though I think three kids getting asthma all at once is weird and not likely
:

In my case I stopped getting sick in general when I became vegan, and I was so sick all the time as a child that by 13 I simply thought I was born defective and was better off dead.
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#19 of 28 Old 12-30-2008, 11:30 AM
 
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Most of the time, with milder symptoms usually, children don't complain of not being able to breath well, they just don't know what their symptoms mean, and how to accurately describe what they are feeling. My son does not have an asthma diagnosis, but every winter when he gets a cold/cough, he immediately gets wheezy, and his cough is exacerbated by being outside in the cold, exercising. Last winter he had a short course of prednilisone, it took three doses to clear his cough/wheeze. The dr/I felt that it was of more benefit to clear his lungs quickly so that secondary infection didn't set in.

Also, you don't always need fever to be really sick, especially with lung issues. My ds gets really sick and very rarely gets a fever.

I must say that it would have to be terribly extreme to get a home health nurse referral. IME, a HHN is the step before a hospital admission. They do not just send them out willy nilly. If you are doubting any of it though, I would make an appointment to see a doctor. The longer they are wheezy the more potential for lung damage.

I would absolutely take this seriously and follow up on it.
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#20 of 28 Old 12-31-2008, 03:54 AM
 
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I guess if I were you, I would contact the NP and get further clarification as to *why* she felt a HHcN is necessary. Is it for possible asthma? Is it for chronic issues? Is it related to vax, etc? I kind of feel like there's a piece to the story missing; maybe I misread. Why did the NP state that she was afraid they would end up in the hospital? I would definitely get further clarification. Can you call back and ask to speak to the doc about it? I also had WIC for a while and never had to have the docs office sign off on anything; WIC does their own medical exams, etc, sufficient for their needs.

Bottom line, ask more questions and figure out where the NP was coming from. And as to wheezing, my kids all wheeze with colds, but the trick is to determine whether it's a nasal wheeze or a true, deep chest, asthmatic wheeze. My husband has asthma, so I'm always overly cautious about a wheeze. Far too often I've had my babes in being evaluated for fear the wheeze was something more. Better to be safe than sorry; I know someone who died from an asthma attack....in a hospital of all places.

 

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#21 of 28 Old 12-31-2008, 10:07 PM
 
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Lets remain on topic regarding how the decision to not vaccinate impacts these types of visits. If you care to further explore illness/asthma beyond that, please do so in H&H which is the appropriate forum for those discussions.
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#22 of 28 Old 12-31-2008, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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First off let me just say thanks for all of your support and concern!!

Secondly, 3 of 4 of my children were diagnosed with asthma as babies. Their asthma always flared during a cold (which they had often because of daycare) we used flovent daily, and albuterol during flare ups. They were not recently diagnosed, and I am very educated about asthma. I know when my children NEED meds.

I was told by WIC that we needed the blood work because that is how they get their funding. I guess I was just trying to be helpful. Now that I know that I don't need it, I won't be going back to the doc unless the kiddies are very sick.

With the exception of DS2 (he had a flare up in Feb 08, was prescribed meds, which I didn't give him, and he recovered nicely) none of the children have had any flare-ups in well over a year!!

All of the kids are completely recovered, and we have not had a call from the nurse.

I really appreciate everyones support!!

Thanks again!!
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#23 of 28 Old 12-31-2008, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To bring the talk back on subject

The NP recommended that I go to the CDC website to get my info on vaccinations.
I really don't believe or trust any info on that site.

Can anyone give me some really good sites, docs, studies that I can take with me if I ever have to go back there???

thanks
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#24 of 28 Old 12-31-2008, 11:59 PM
 
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I wouldn't take studies back or references. Pediatric medical professionals who are pro-vaccine are pro-vaccine in their blood. They are adamantly and hugely and emotionally vested that vaccines are 100% right and safe. You will not convince them. You could show them hundreds of studies and they would roll their eyes in disbelief.

What I have found is keeping it short and sweet: "I have religious objections to vaccines." End of sentence. Do not explain. Calm. Non-defensive. Have the total expectation that that simply sentence ends the conversation. It stops people, even pediatricians, dead in their tracks. They run into legal and ethical issues trying to force you to vaccinate once you tell them you have religious objections. Do not debate your religious objections. Keep that conversation for your preacher, not your pediatrician.
HTH
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#25 of 28 Old 01-01-2009, 04:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineMommy View Post
Can anyone give me some really good sites, docs, studies that I can take with me if I ever have to go back there??? thanks
Mothering has some really good reprints and articles on vaxes. Have you checked them? I've often found great medical journal studies by checking the references used in these articles. Also, I've found a lot of the info out there by Mary Tocco to be really useful. One of the nurses at our doc's office attended a seminar put on by Ms. Tocco and had so much cool info afterwards. In fact, after she attended the seminar, she started putting signs in all of the exam rooms that say, "Have you researched vaccinations?"

 

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#26 of 28 Old 01-01-2009, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Happy New Year!!

Mary Tocco has a video online that really helped me decide to not vax anymore. I would love to go to a seminar of hers.
PurpleCat: you're right about the fact that I shouldn't take info to the docs.
I really would like to have a few really great studies that I can quote whenever I get into a debate with anyone about vax. I have read millions (well maybe not that many) but none of them really stick with me!!
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#27 of 28 Old 01-01-2009, 05:34 AM
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Happy New Year!!

Mary Tocco has a video online that really helped me decide to not vax anymore. I would love to go to a seminar of hers.
PurpleCat: you're right about the fact that I shouldn't take info to the docs.
I really would like to have a few really great studies that I can quote whenever I get into a debate with anyone about vax. I have read millions (well maybe not that many) but none of them really stick with me!!
My favorite starting point (besides MDC) is insidevaccines.com - they have really broken down the scientific studies and are thoroughly referenced.
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#28 of 28 Old 01-07-2009, 06:47 PM
 
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We saw a NP who seemed very nice, but of course thought my kids were so sick that they needed albuterol, flovent, and even wanted to give them prednisone. I declined the steroid but accepted the inhalers just to humor her. I won't be giving it to the kids at all.
I have asthma. Prednisone and Albuterol were helpful to me when I was a kid.

Dad to DD 9/2008
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