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#1 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I don't really like forums and I don't often write on them. I'll say I have had bad experiences with people on them, and I'm taking a risk writing again today. So as a disclosure I would like to say I'm kind of a sensitive person, I would respectfully ask in your responses to me please be kind.

I am just looking for some support. First, I was on Weight Watchers forum for weight loss support and mentioned that I don't vaccinate. It was a big mistake. I simply should have asked for fitness advice instead of mentioning how hard it was to schedule fitness into my day and I prefaced by saying that I cannot go to the mall to walk around because I don't vaccinate and I like to avoid risk this time of year.

So then, I got lambasted by everyone who responded for my decicion not to vaccinate instead of getting any fitness advice at all. Now, being the sensitive person I am, I let their words drive into me and scare me.

I have Post Partum Anxiety as it is and have had anxiety ever since I was pregnant. I lost a sister five years ago and I guess that has really affected me more than anything. I'm terrified of losing my daughter.

I am educated on all the risks of both vaccinating and not, and have always been steadfast in my choice to vaccinate later. I have no support system however and I am scared. Even with the education, it doesn't make the decision any easier to bear. If I don't think about it, I'm fine. My daughter is so healthy! Now I have allowed the nay sayers in and it has hurt my psyche.

I guess I don't know what any of you will say, but hopefully it won't hurt as much as what has already been said today.
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#2 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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What are you afraid of at the mall?

Most people vaccinate- so if the vaccines work, what risk is your baby at? If they don't work, what difference would it make?

Both of mine are totally unvaxed (and will remain that way) and we go everywhere and have since day one. We go to playgroups, parks, malls, classes, you name it.

-Angela
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#3 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:04 AM
 
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Is your DD happy and healthy? My DH says that everytime I worry. He says look at her. You cant argue with results. What ever your choice is, maintaining a healthy body with healthy habits is the key. You gotta focus on the present. If I forget to focus on the present I tend to drive myself a little batty with fear.

Hugs mama! Dont be afraid of germs, just take good care of your health and everything will work out.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years.
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#4 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:06 AM
 
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That sounds horrible! I'm a pretty sensitive person too, so I find it is easiest to simply not talk about our decision not to vax when I'm not sure how the other people would respond. Not that I'm embarrassed of our decision or anything, but I know that I would take any negative comments way too personally; it's hard not to when it's about the welfare of your child.

I do agree with what PP said, our DD goes everywhere we do, and we don't avoid places because she's not vaxed. This thread helped me immensely when we made the decision not to vax anymore...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...older+children
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#5 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:08 AM
 
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I agree with the pp...no need to be afraid!! We don't vax at all and go everywhere! THe kids are very healthy and when they do get sick they get over it, and the immunity is better than vax's.

You shouldn't let other people intimidate you. Be strong and steadfast in your decision. You feel it's best for your family. Be proud. You are doing a great thing for your dd.

Sorry those other people beat you up. Forget about it.
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#6 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:12 AM
 
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s

You have come to the right place.

I was not vaxed as a child. My dad was a DC. I grew up in the era of leg braces and lining up at the nurse's office to get vaccinated. It was painfully obvious that I was not vaccinated since I never got in that line. I had classmates who had leg braces from polio. I had whopping cough, chicken pox, measles, mumps, rubella, the flu and I am still here.

Even as a mom I almost vaxed my own children, except my own dh said that he was always so very sick after his vaccinations that he did not want to vaccinate our children if he did not have to. And we did not.

When I was in my senior year of college, 1976, I read a syndicated column by pediatrician, Dr. Robert Mendelsohn advocating against childhood vaccinations. His column was dropped within a week by half of the newspapers that carried his column. He went on to write four books and lecture across the country against the religion of modern medicine and its holy waters, one of which is vaccination.

My advice is to keep researching, quietly. Do not discuss this subject with anyone. However, you may be surprised to find others who do not. Remember that I grew up in the 1950s, and there were few people who would speak up then against vaccinations; there are far more now. Someone mainstream like Jenny McCarthy coming out against mercury in vaccinations and saying that it caused her son's autism was unheard of.
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#7 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:20 AM
 
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Hey, following your beliefs when they're against the grain of those around you is not always easy, so be proud of yourself there! There's a reason the saying 'mother knows best' has been around for years and the saying 'mother knows what the doctor tells her' never caught on.

Just a suggestion to bolster your position for weathering public criticism of your choices: have a ready arsenal of informational tidbits like some of the websites you've found helpful in your research, or sources to learn about vaccine-injured children. Tell them to google 'blood-brain barrier'. I think people are more receptive and less defensive when you suggest that they learn for themselves.

When people give you a hard time, prehaps consider that while you're coming from a position of research and informed concern, they may likely speaking solely from a position of fear. Fear is the drug comapnies' #1 marketing tool.
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#8 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:21 AM
 
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My son is completely unvaxed and I am secure with my decision now, but I am sensitive too, so I know how you feel, completely. It's ok mama. Just relax and try not to take what these other people say personally. Stand strong in your decisions, even though they are not what is considered "normal" by most people.
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#9 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:34 AM
 
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I'm very sensitive. I have not and will not vax my son. I catch a lot of gruff for this from everyone. I have learned not to say it in casual conversation (not because I am ashamed, but because I'm sensitive to others confrontation and judgement even though I KNOW I am right.) When ever I feel the need for some support for my decisions, I come here, where there is always support for this choice. Then, I pull out all my books by dr.s and others that I trust and re read what I have read. It always helps and i end up feeling once again empowered.
I wouldn't be afraid to go to the mall though. Chances are, your child has a healthy immune system and won't catch anything. the chances of him getting a vpd at mall is really really slim.
I watched vaccine nation the other night and I don't think that I will ever feel insecure about my choice again! go watch it on google videos. It helps.
:mother to beautiful boy born 100% drug free, my little water baby (water birth):ife to sexy baby wearer.
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#10 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone! This is the most support I've felt all day and it was a real risk for me to come back on Mothering to discuss things.

I guess, I perceive the mall and public places to be unsafe because of all the people and kids, afterall daycare is ridden with germs where children crowd. I know that my peditrician tells me that because we're a developed country, we have less to fear and our herd immunity is what protects us most.

I was not prepared today, nor any day because I didn't want to have to fight back, especially because I didn't feel it was their right to tell me how to parent. I just didn't want to have to explain myself to total strangers, especially mainstream strangers who I knew wouldn't understand. When I tried to intellectually debate with them, tell them my knowledge base, it got even uglier.

Something happened when I had my dd, I softened alot. I used to be so hard and self protective, but that shell deteriorated when I saw her beautiful face. Now I am an open bleeding sore! Anything can hurt me.

Part of my issue is that I have no support, save from my husband, but none of my friends have or will ever have kids, so it makes it hard to talk openly with anyone who doesn't know me or my situation. And in forums, it gets tricky because I'd like to be able to open up, but have gotten burnt.
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#11 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone! This is the most support I've felt all day and it was a real risk for me to come back on Mothering to discuss things.

I guess, I perceive the mall and public places to be unsafe because of all the people and kids, afterall daycare is ridden with germs where children crowd. I know that my peditrician tells me that because we're a developed country, we have less to fear and our herd immunity is what protects us most.

I was not prepared today, nor any day because I didn't want to have to fight back, especially because I didn't feel it was their right to tell me how to parent. I just didn't want to have to explain myself to total strangers, especially mainstream strangers who I knew wouldn't understand. When I tried to intellectually debate with them, tell them my knowledge base, it got even uglier.

Something happened when I had my dd, I softened alot. I used to be so hard and self protective, but that shell deteriorated when I saw her beautiful face. Now I am an open bleeding sore! Anything can hurt me.

Part of my issue is that I have no support, save from my husband, but none of my friends have or will ever have kids, so it makes it hard to talk openly with anyone who doesn't know me or my situation. And in forums, it gets tricky because I'd like to be able to open up, but have gotten burnt.
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#12 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:43 AM
 
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hmmm, I guess I could get flak for putting this out but I thought it was just a basic idea for non-vaxers to avoid certain places at certain times? For example, the mall playplace, playgrounds, etc were also avoided during BTS times by my family b/c that's when a massive number of children are vaccinated.

Remember, some vaccines shed...

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#13 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:48 AM
 
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hmmm, I guess I could get flak for putting this out but I thought it was just a basic idea for non-vaxers to avoid certain places at certain times? For example, the mall playplace, playgrounds, etc were also avoided during BTS times by my family b/c that's when a massive number of children are vaccinated.

Remember, some vaccines shed...


Why would I? I'm not concerned about the vax-available diseases. We don't avoid anything.

The only vaxes that shed are:
rotavirus, MMR, chickenpox, flumist.

Rotavirus is everywhere anyway

I'd like natural immunity for my kids to M M and R and chickenpox

no real way to avoid flumist.

-Angela
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#14 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What is BTS time?
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#15 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:58 AM
 
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I am aware that some vaccines shed, and I do not consider that to be a risk at all.
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#16 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 03:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Guess I must not know as much as I thought I knew. What is shedding? Meaning the disease is prevelent and can be contracted by non vaccinated babies after a child gets vaccinated?

How do I even find out when babies are vaccinated? I go to a music class with my dd every Friday with 0-18 month olds.
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#17 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 03:10 AM
 
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Guess I must not know as much as I thought I knew. What is shedding? Meaning the disease is prevelent and can be contracted by non vaccinated babies after a child gets vaccinated?

How do I even find out when babies are vaccinated? I go to a music class with my dd every Friday with 0-18 month olds.
Some vaccines are live weakened viruses and they shed like when you get a cold and you sneeze and shed the cold virus. You cant be worried about this as all kids of all ages are running around freshly vaccinated and the vaccines shed anywhere from 1-3 weeks. You cant live in fear of this stuff. Just practice proper health and hygiene.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years.
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#18 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 12:21 PM
 
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What is BTS time?
I think she meant Back To School.

-Angela
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#19 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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The reaction you had with your WW group is exactly why I keep my big fat mouth shut most of the time. My immediate family knows we are not going to vaccinate anymore. DD had everything until 12 months except chicken pox and MMR and had her last shots (DTaP and Prevnar) at 15 months. She had a severe topical reaction to that, so we are no longer vaccinating at all. My younger sister (an MA--proof positive that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!) has blasted me, accusing me of putting my children's health at risk, however refuses to read anything I offer her. My mother thinks it is not wise, but sees things a little more our way because of all the severe issues we've had with DD's skin health.

DS is due in 7 1/2 weeks (EEK! ) and we will not be vaccinating him at all, including vit K. We don't plan on keeping him isolated from the public except for a week or so after birth (if that). I plan on wearing him in large crowds like church, grocery shopping, etc. I don't worry about him getting anything serious. God will give him to me perfectly, and he does not need anything changed about his body systems, immune system, urinary system, anything!

When something is THIS controversial, the best action is none at all, I believe. You're doing the right thing. Don't let naysayers change your mind. Be strong and firm! You are being a great mom!

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#20 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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PP's have said it all!! Don't worry and stay confident in your choice!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#21 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:10 PM
 
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Why would I? I'm not concerned about the vax-available diseases. We don't avoid anything.

The only vaxes that shed are:
rotavirus, MMR, chickenpox, flumist.

Rotavirus is everywhere anyway

I'd like natural immunity for my kids to M M and R and chickenpox

no real way to avoid flumist.

-Angela
I agree and I don't lol. I mean, sure, there is no fear of these diseases. But are you really saying it's questionable to attempt to avoid disease? If relatives have a stomach bug, we avoid them. If someone is coughing and sneezing up a storm, you don't breathe deeply.

I also do believe there is some justifiable concern for pregnant women. And seeing as how my mom had 11 kids...she was basically pregnant for 20 years.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#22 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:13 PM
 
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s

You have come to the right place.

I was not vaxed as a child. My dad was a DC. I grew up in the era of leg braces and lining up at the nurse's office to get vaccinated. It was painfully obvious that I was not vaccinated since I never got in that line. I had classmates who had leg braces from polio. I had whopping cough, chicken pox, measles, mumps, rubella, the flu and I am still here.

Even as a mom I almost vaxed my own children, except my own dh said that he was always so very sick after his vaccinations that he did not want to vaccinate our children if he did not have to. And we did not.

When I was in my senior year of college, 1976, I read a syndicated column by pediatrician, Dr. Robert Mendelsohn advocating against childhood vaccinations. His column was dropped within a week by half of the newspapers that carried his column. He went on to write four books and lecture across the country against the religion of modern medicine and its holy waters, one of which is vaccination.

My advice is to keep researching, quietly. Do not discuss this subject with anyone. However, you may be surprised to find others who do not. Remember that I grew up in the 1950s, and there were few people who would speak up then against vaccinations; there are far more now. Someone mainstream like Jenny McCarthy coming out against mercury in vaccinations and saying that it caused her son's autism was unheard of.
I must say I envy you. I know it sounds terrible of me to say, but I wish my kids could get sick with 1/2 of what you have had. In the long run, it is safer. I have been trying to get my kids exposed to chicken pox for years and can not seem to get it.

I have a friend in his 40's who has never had chicken pox, and it freaks me out b/c getting it as a child is so MUCH safer!

Secondly, I love Dr. Mendelsohn !!!!! His book changed my thinking on so many issues.



I also advice staying quiet. Very quiet. Most of the ppl I know have not a clue about my vax stance. It is alot better that way. For now. I truly hold hope that the view on vax is changing throughout this world, and someday we can be more open to everyone.

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#23 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 02:31 PM
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I thought it was just a basic idea for non-vaxers to avoid certain places at certain times? For example, the mall playplace, playgrounds, etc were also avoided during BTS times by my family b/c that's when a massive number of children are vaccinated.
Nah, doesn't bother me at all. But then again dd has been in daycare since she was 10 months old, and now goes to pre-school, so she has been around recently vax'ed and shedding kiddos most of her life. I don't really see anyway to avoid it, really. There is NO WAY to know who around you may be coming down with something, or who has been recently vax'ed for something, so I'm not going to live in fear of it

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#24 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 04:47 PM
 
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I agree and I don't lol. I mean, sure, there is no fear of these diseases. But are you really saying it's questionable to attempt to avoid disease? If relatives have a stomach bug, we avoid them. If someone is coughing and sneezing up a storm, you don't breathe deeply.

I also do believe there is some justifiable concern for pregnant women. And seeing as how my mom had 11 kids...she was basically pregnant for 20 years.
I get what you're saying, but I think there's a difference between staying away from someone you know is sick, and avoiding the general public because they might be sick/shedding. If we avoided going to places where there might be sick or shedding people, we'd never leave the house. JMHO

I'm not saying there's anything wrong if the OP wants to be extra cautious and avoid the mall...I just don't want her to feel like because she chooses not to vax she has to become a recluse.
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#25 of 37 Old 01-08-2009, 10:36 PM
 
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I get what you're saying, but I think there's a difference between staying away from someone you know is sick, and avoiding the general public because they might be sick/shedding. If we avoided going to places where there might be sick or shedding people, we'd never leave the house. JMHO
Right. I don't go over and hang out with people in bed with the flu, but I don't stay home or wipe every surface down in public either.

-Angela
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#26 of 37 Old 01-09-2009, 12:19 PM
 
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You said you don't have support besides your DH. Do you have a local API group that you can join?

http://attachmentparenting.org/

Also, some states have vaccine awareness organizations, you could check into that.

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#27 of 37 Old 01-09-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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Right. I don't go over and hang out with people in bed with the flu, but I don't stay home or wipe every surface down in public either.

-Angela
Exactly. I view VPDs the same way I view other bugs, we don't go out of our way but incidental exposure just strengthens my kids immune system that much more. And shedding vax IMO, give us opportunities to get some immunity to those VPDs even if its just passive.

Austin June 2006; Xander March 2008; Shay Nov 2009; 5 babies gone to heaven.
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#28 of 37 Old 01-09-2009, 03:57 PM
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Exactly. I view VPDs the same way I view other bugs, we don't go out of our way but incidental exposure just strengthens my kids immune system that much more. And shedding vax IMO, give us opportunities to get some immunity to those VPDs even if its just passive.
You know, I've often wondered about this. If an unvax'ed child is exposed to vax shedding, but does not become actively infected with the disease, is there any chance that some immunity still gets built up? Or does that mean that the exposure was so minimal, that it has no effect at all?

PhDin' mama to dd (Oct. 2005)
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#29 of 37 Old 01-12-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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You know your baby best! Sending you hugs and reassurance taht there are a lot of us out here supporting you and along for the same ride! I mnight sound like a broken record here, bc I posted this before, but a great book is Raising a vaccine free child by wendy lydall. I am really enjoying it. have not done extensive reearch into who she is, but her book is full of fantastic info and a very long refernces section..
Blessings,
Sarah
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#30 of 37 Old 01-12-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Do you live in fear of roseola or scarlet fever? Your babies could get those at any time. But we don't have vaxes for those, so I bet you don't even think about it. And that's because no one ever told you to live in fear of those diseases. But if the pharmaceutical cartel ever develops a vaccine for those, I assure you that people will begin to dread them and talk about how dangerous they are.

In 20 years I bet people will be sufficiently scared of chicken pox to believe that there were once chicken pox "epidemics", with all those poor little babies who lost limbs and died of complications...because enough people will have reached adulthood without having contracted this mild, important childhood illness. Misinformation + fearmongering = effective marketing.

Be strong and confident in your decision, mama. Not vaxing takes guts and some basic knowledge about how to recognize and treat the vaccine-available diseases, but it's healthier for your child in the long run.

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