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#1 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi there.

I posted something on the Delayed Vax forum as well, but since I am leaning towards non-vax, I figured this may be a more appropriate place to ask for help, as well.

My LO is (almost) five months, exclusively bf'ed, and I'm a SAHM. She is fat and happy, and has had no real issues (conjunctivitis and a low-level ear infection at three months), she's a very healthy and happy girl.

I have done a lot of research on vax'ing vs. non'vaxing- and from what I understand- from the non-vax standpoint- vaccines are dangerous, mostly unneccesary, and basically a money-making scam that somehow everyone has bough into. From the vax'ing standpoint- better safe than sorry.

My family wants me to vax- mother, aunts, uncles, g'parents- they all vax'ed their kids (including myself, my siblings, cousins, etc) with no issues. ALTHOUGH there are a lot of ADD, ADHD, one person with Asperger's, a couple kids have had seizures, some bipolar, etc- but nothing PROVEN to be from their vaccinations.

My SO, Natalie's dad, will support me whatever my decision is.

My pedi is very nice, and bf'ing supportive, but she said if I choose not to vax, I'd better find another pedi.

My LO had her Hep B shot at birth, and also got her normal 2 month shots. Now she's due for her four month shots- Prevnar, and Pentacil- which is HIB, DTAP, and IPB. I already delayed them a week because she had a cold- it also gave me more time to think/plan/research.

I'm not sure what to do. I feel like either way, I'm putting my child in danger. but KNOWING the researched facts and dangers of vaccines- I'm not sure I can bring her in there to get vaccinated.

Any closing arguments for me- anything decision worthy that I may or may not already know? And how do you guys deal with family/friends/strangers who think you're neglectful and crazy for non-vaxing??

forever following the lead of a colorful active little monkey
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#2 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 05:36 PM
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I think it is most important that you don't go against your instincts. Don't be time pressured into doing this until you are comfortable. Take your time.

As far as why I don't plan to vax it is less about the reactions of the vaccines but about my belief that we are messing with the delicate balance of the human immune system. Most of the diseases are normal childhood illnesses that are not the scary thing they've been made out to be! By avoiding normal things like measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, etc. we are making unanticipated consequences. This could be vaccine reactions such as asthma, ADHD, ASDs, etc. But it could also be super-viruses that are way worse, moving the illness to oder populations, and new viruses filling in the gaps of those that have been "eradicated." The Human immune system is an amazing symphony designed to live in balance with the bacterial and viral co-inhabitants of this planet (ok, I know I sound like a weirdo hippie! lol). Personally, I think it is arrogance to think we can mess with that balance without consequences.

I know it feels like you are doing some harm if you vax or don't vax, but I honestly believe that the risks of vaxing are much higher than the risk of the illnesses they are meant to prevent. There is a lot of propaganda that inflate the risks to cause fear. I love the research at insidevaccines.com. They compare the research and statistics about the illnesses and the vaxs.

I would also read Dr. Mendlson's (sp there's an "h" in there somewhere) book How to Raise a Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor. It really give practical advice about how to keep your kids healthy even if they do get a vaccine available disease.

As far as those relatives that will think you are crazy - I find they usually just trust and don't know much about the facts. So throwing around some stats (that you'll learn from insidevaccines.com and other places) usually shuts them up. It can also help to find a dr for you LO that agrees or at least doesn't bother you. Ask in finding your tribe for a referral. Then you can tell people "our ped agrees." Of course, you might have to resort to "bite me." or something much nicer - that's just me.

Kudos to you for taking your time to do the best for your LO!
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#3 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 05:42 PM
 
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I totally agree with the above poster when she is talking about the immune system and it's balance with the rest of the world. I think we are playing with fire when we vaccinate and use antibiotics.

I don't tell most people that I am not vaxing. It really hasn't come up much. I don't like to have to defend myself, so I keep quiet most of the time.
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#4 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 06:39 PM
 
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In a nutshell ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nj's_mom View Post
I have done a lot of research on vax'ing vs. non'vaxing- and from what I understand- from the non-vax standpoint- vaccines are dangerous, mostly unneccesary, and basically a money-making scam that somehow everyone has bough into. From the vax'ing standpoint- better safe than sorry.
If this is your opinion, and your partner supports it, that's all that really matters.

Quote:
My family wants me to vax- mother, aunts, uncles, g'parents- they all vax'ed their kids (including myself, my siblings, cousins, etc) with no issues.
Good for them. They made their decisions for their children, and you have the right to make decisions for your kid.

Quote:
I feel like either way, I'm putting my child in danger. but KNOWING the researched facts and dangers of vaccines- I'm not sure I can bring her in there to get vaccinated.
Then delay until you are certain, either way.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#5 of 11 Old 01-13-2009, 06:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj's_mom View Post

Any closing arguments for me- anything decision worthy that I may or may not already know? And how do you guys deal with family/friends/strangers who think you're neglectful and crazy for non-vaxing??
The biggest shocker to me has been just how many options I have for supporting the kids (and myself) through illnesses. I can do a lot to increase the chances that we don't have any serious complications from these illnesses. I had no idea just how much was out there--and I've only scratched the surface. But all the things I can do, whether day-to-day or when we're already sick, are altogether good for us. I've gotten to the point where I just don't think the vaccines have anything to offer me or the kids--we have other choices that are completely supportive of good health.

And as for family--I don't mention it much. My family (mine and inlaws, I mean) are respectful that we as parents are responsible for our choices, but I think some would be concerned, and I don't want them to stress and I don't want to stress the relationship. I wouldn't lie, but they've never asked--probably because it would be like asking, did you put clothing on your kids before taking them to the store? Of course. That's the approach we take for the most part. But when it does come up, I think since I've (finally) gotten very comfortable with our (my) decision, I don't get any flack, and even if I did, I don't feel the need to defend myself.

Best of luck sorting through this.
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#6 of 11 Old 01-21-2009, 02:12 AM
 
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A quick way to find information about the vaccines is to look at the Inside Vaccines blog: http://insidevaccines.wordpress.com

You can always delay, but you can't take back vaccines once they're there.
You can find a doctor who will accept your decisions. YOU are your child's parent - THEY are not.


~ Robyn

Mom to Jackson, b. January 2006

and Cassandra, b. October 2011

 

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http://chittisterchildren.wordpress.com

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#7 of 11 Old 01-21-2009, 03:36 AM
 
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I was worried a lot at first too. My son is 8 months and has not received a single vax. At first I let every little comment get to me about not vaxing. My mom sends me emails of outbreaks of measles and pertussis, and I used to freak out, thinking it was just a matter of days until my child was sick with some horrible disease. I started researching night and day (literally, I'm constantly reading a book about vaccination, and reading what I can online when I can't find my book). After reading about the diseases we are vaccinating for, I found so much comfort. I am not afraid of many of them and the ones that do scare me, getting the vax for it wouldn't really protect them anyway, so that comforts me. I would rather the virus have to battle my sons immune system first rather than inject it straight into his system along with other toxins.
Don't ever stop researching. Knowledge is power either way you go. My family doesn't agree with my decision, my mother and father are fully indoctrined by western medicine. But when I start spouting out facts, stats etc. they have nothing to say.
The previous poster who told you to trust and listen to your instincts is absolutely right. Your instincts will tell you what to do. good luck!
Starting your research:
The Vaccine Book (non biased, gives a great explanation of each vax, disease, side effects, personal opinion from author)
Mother Daughter Wisdom (has a great segment on immunization that I find a lot of comfort in.)
How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor
***These are books that got me going on the research, there are tons of others.
I personally don't feel the "better be safe than sorry" verse that the mainstream uses is really that "safe". I look at vaccines as just as risky if not worse than the disease they are "preventing." In a way its choosing the lesser of two evils, except I have yet to meet anyone who has had a awful case of measles, chicken pox, mumps, rubella, pertussis, tetnus, diptheria, rota virus, etc. Now, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the people I know that have had a child have a bad reaction to a vaccine. I believe parents when they say their child was fine until getting a shot, and then death, illness, autism etc. No doctor will ever convince me that something that a parent saw didn't happen.
Good luck with all your research!
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#8 of 11 Old 01-21-2009, 02:04 PM
 
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The pp's have summed it up nicely, but I will put in my 2 cents.

I have a 8.5 month old unvaxed son. I also am quite obsessed with researching this and feel that I know MUCH more than most doctor's or people that choose to vaccinate their children. I am comfortable in my choice and truly believe that most of these diseases are not the killers we are led to believe. I agree with TanyaLopez...there are a ton of MUCH BETTER ways to keep your family healthy. I also agree with PaigeC. We can't mess with Mother Nature this much and think that nothing bad will happen.

You said
Quote:
My family wants me to vax- mother, aunts, uncles, g'parents- they all vax'ed their kids (including myself, my siblings, cousins, etc) with no issues. ALTHOUGH there are a lot of ADD, ADHD, one person with Asperger's, a couple kids have had seizures, some bipolar, etc- but nothing PROVEN to be from their vaccinations
I would argue that those things you listed are most likely reaction ,proven or not. The industry and government have arranged it so these reactions can't be proven because they will not fund the unbiased research necessary to do so. It's all very careful orchestrated!

In the words of Mahatma Gandhi: "An error can never become true however many times you repeat it. The truth can never be wrong, even if no one ever hears about it."

and in the words of Albert Einstein: "A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth."

and finally in the words of Voltaire: "Doctors put drugs of which they know little, into bodies of which they know less, for diseases of which they know nothing at all"

My parting advice is do no vaxes until you can do more research because you can't take them out once they are in there.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#9 of 11 Old 01-21-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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My DS is not vaxxed. Don't volunteer this information to friends and family. I noticed that... If you don't want to argue about it, just keep it between your partner and yourself!
My dad knows and he shares the concerns about the toxins and also think it's weird how many vaccines there are nowadays... But I once told a friend that we delay (that was the original plan) and she got all weird about it. Lesson learned!!!!
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#10 of 11 Old 01-21-2009, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj's_mom View Post
I'm not sure what to do. I feel like either way, I'm putting my child in danger. but KNOWING the researched facts and dangers of vaccines- I'm not sure I can bring her in there to get vaccinated.

Any closing arguments for me- anything decision worthy that I may or may not already know? And how do you guys deal with family/friends/strangers who think you're neglectful and crazy for non-vaxing??
I think it helps to look rationally at what kind of danger your child faces without vaccinations. Without the fearmongering websites from the CDC or from vaccine manufacturers.

I have seven children. The oldest two were partially vaccinated. The younger five have not had any shots (or maybe #3 had one set, I don't recall honestly) The oldest four have had mumps, rubella, they've all seven had chicken pox and pertussis. None of those diseases were scary when the children were sick. They acted like they had a cold (with a funny rash) The whooping cough, maybe was a bit scary, because I didn't have experience with it and I had heard about how children die all the time. Fortunately dh has had a ton of experience. He helped nurse his younger siblings through it, as well as nearly a dozen cousins. Out of him and his seven siblings, not one of them had secondary problems or long-lasting complications from VPDs, and from his cousins, over thirty other children, the same. The same for his mother's generation, thirteen children who were never vaccinated.

None of my children have had complications from vaccine preventable diseases. My oldest two DID have reactions to vaccines, including 108º fever (with tylenol), lethary, loss of developmental skills, and ongoing neurological problems. In our case it makes much more sense not to vaccinate.

We do not talk to people about it. It's none of their business, any more than it is to know about how my last PAP smear went. We don't discuss that, so why would I talk about WBV or vaxes?

Nine kids run.gif and four angel.gif, living and learning all the time

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#11 of 11 Old 01-23-2009, 06:05 PM
 
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The only real advice I would give (which was touched on by other posters as well) is to not ony research the vax's but also the conditions they are intended to protect against. I had chickenpox when I was 12. I remember it clearly. It was a pain in the patootie, but it was far, far from "life threatening" for example. If, after your research, you feel one or more of the diseases are too risky or worse than the potential effects of the vax, then vax against those. If you feel they're all too risky, then get all vax's. If you feel that none of them warrant a vaccine, then don't get any. In the end, it doesn't matter one whit what other people think, this is your child and your decision. As for family, I would just kind of skate over it if it's mentioned and not really say anything about it either way. It's really none of their business. Then someday when your child is in their 20's and they find out, there really won't be much left for them to say about it!

K.
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