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#31 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 11:48 AM
 
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I hated WBV as well, but there were times when having Dr. Paul M. Fleiss on my side worked to my advantage, especially in the ER and being accused of child abuse.
And if I could have a Fleiss or a Gordon or a Sears I might bother...

-Angela
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#32 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 11:54 AM
 
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I think more people get harassed when they act like there is room for conversion. Just stare at the docs and don't let them sway you, if you feel secure in your decisions. It's not a bad thing to listen to what they say and have questions, but just because they suggest something doesn't mean you have to do it.

But to avoid well child check for this is kinda silly. I do well child checks (and don't vax, either, so it's not about that) for a number of reasons: 1) so I have an established relationship with a doctor (I can never be accused of neglecting my kids' medical needs); 2) I have an established relationship with a doctor, myself, she trusts my judgment as far as when I call and say there is something wrong with my kid, she trusts me that I know what I'm talking about; 3) I was glad I had done them when my (then)17mo had a stroke and we were in and out of the hospital, doing millions of tests and procedures trying to first diagnose it and then treat it, then figure out why it happened; 3) when my kids are sick, she trusts me enough to listen to me on the phone and we decide together if I need to bring the kids in (did for mystery rash that turned out to be an allergy, didn't for mystery rash that turned out to be chicken pox, did for mystery rash that turned out to scarlet fever, didn't for infected ingrown toenail, that kind of stuff).

I also have a friend who had her doc catch a wilm's tumor (a kidney cancer in children) at a routine 6m check up. They removed his kidney the next week, and the oncologists said they caught it early, and even said they were surprised the doctor caught it since it was so small it wasn't causing any symptoms yet.

I think the potential good outweighs the discomfort we might feel at having to justify not vaxxing.

R~mama to 3

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#33 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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when mine bugs me to vax, i just argue with him. like i tell him that the pertussis vaccine doesn't really prevent transmission anyhow. and he looks at me like this



it's hard, mama. those WBVs can be hard. but what's even harder IMO is when she's sick and we have to go in and hear the passive-aggressive implications about how getting vaxed is a good idea because you never know when an ear infection MIGHT be meningitis.

and this is one of the crunchiest docs in town.

but still, for me, countering what he says works--because it reminds me i KNOW things and that i'm not just doing this on a whim. for example, he told me that being in daycare increases her risk of contracting a VPD a THOUSAND fold and that ALL the other patients in his practice who don't vax (and 20% don't!) are SAHMs

i don't believe that for a second! so i told him so. i said, "i don't believe all your other patients are SAHMs. and even if they are, their kids have to go to stores and things, so i don't really see your point."

anyway, just keep that faith. ignore him, or say "we're firm on this decision," or shoot down what he says--do what works for you. but do not vax unless YOU decide you want to OUTSIDE of the doc's office!!!!!

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#34 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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, he told me that being in daycare increases her risk of contracting a VPD a THOUSAND fold and that ALL the other patients in his practice who don't vax (and 20% don't!) are SAHMs
Okay, then doc...why are "we" vaxing at all then??? If the vax is so effective and all the "other kids" in daycare are vaxed then my child shouldn't have any chance at all of getting a VPD, right!? Because Lord knows that vaccines eradicate every and all chance of contracting disease. Hmmmm...must be that damned 20% out there wandering the aisles of Wal-mart spreading their disease germs all around. :

Sigh...when will they learn???

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#35 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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Something to remember for some of you, depending on your state, chiropractors may be considered "port of entry" physicians, meaning that they can act as a PCP just like a MD or DO, they just can't prescribe meds. Depending on your state, your chiropractor can do Well Child Checks to give you the paper trail you may need to show you are keeping up with medical care. My husband keeps vaccine exemption forms in our office (can not do a medical exemption *unless the parent tells him the child or a sibling had an adverse reaction) but we made up a great philosophical/religious exemption form that quotes the Ohio revised code and looks very official. He fills out/signs the school physical forms for patients and then gives them the exemption form to staple to it. He does not sign the exemption (to protect us legally) but having the two together gives the impression of it being "dr approved"

However, the scope of care for chiropractors varies widely by state (in some states they can perform minor surgery, in others they can only do adjustments, and most are somewhere in between)
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#36 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 04:55 PM
 
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That is true.

For me, my DC father wrote up all of our physicals all through school through the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. But be ready for a fight. Many schools do not know or recognize this and will demand that you go to a "real doctor", because that is the way others see it. I came home from school, a private, Catholic, grammar school with a note that stated that I needed to see a "real", medical doctor, and my mother had to send them the law that stated that my father, the DC, was legally able to do primary care as a school physical.

I ran into trouble looking for work and using my DC as a primary care doctor. I had the nurse and doctor taking turns insulting me and demanding that a see a doctor that was able to do surgery. MMMM. What did this guy have in mind. I refused and did was not hired, obviously.

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#37 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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I don't do WBV. Period. If my kid is gaining weight, eating right, etc........ there is not reason to take him to see a dr. just for the dr. to tell me he is fine. I don't vax at all for anything. If there is something majorly wrong with my kid, then yes, I will take him to the dr. for an exam.

I wouldn't worry about CPS too much.

We wonder why health care is so $$$$$
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#38 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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I'm dreading DD's WBV next month. The only reason we're going in is to get our WIC forms filled out. I know exactly how much DD weighs, she's not getting any shots, and she's right on developmentally. Our ped seems to have a "whatever" attitude as far as vaccines go, so we'll have to see (first WBV with this ped).

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#39 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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I

We wonder why health care is so $$$$$
Yep, thats why we see our patients for a flat $30 fee. Dh decides the treatment needed: adjustments, laser, ultrasound, electro stim and the patient doesn't have to pick and choose what they can afford. What he decides is medically necessary is what they get and they know the price up front, thats the way it should be.

Luckily for us, in Ohio, the School physical forsm actually state now please have signed by a MD, DO, DC, or CNP so no issues here
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#40 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 07:48 AM
 
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I'm dreading DD's WBV next month. The only reason we're going in is to get our WIC forms filled out. I know exactly how much DD weighs, she's not getting any shots, and she's right on developmentally. Our ped seems to have a "whatever" attitude as far as vaccines go, so we'll have to see (first WBV with this ped).

Little OT-
Ummm You DON'T have to see a doc to get your wic. You do know this? I also don't do their lead/blood work either. I told the WIC worker that I don't vaccinate and that we don't do shots/needles unless it's life threatening. They just cross off the "doc" form part of the paper work and weigh and measure my kids in office. The people at WIC may not like it- but it's federal law that states that you are NOT required to vaccinate to recieve benefits! If they do try to pressure you to take DD to the doc's office or for shots or for the anemia or lead testing tell them that you are religiously opposed to such treatment and are not willing to discuss it.

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#41 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 10:12 AM
 
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I'm not sure if our experience falls into line w/what you are discussing. But, I found WCV helpful w/DS. He always seemed to be developmentally behind anywhere from 4-6 months on a lot of things. Our doctor never got too worked up about it because by the next visit DS had always gained ground. Flashforward to when DS was 18 mos old. He still wasn't walking, his speech wasn't great, etc. So the dr (who still didn't think there was a problem, DS is just taking his time) referred us over to the local infant child development center "just in case" there was something wrong. After 6 mos of help DS was declared age appropriate in development. DS special ed teacher actually taught us more than she directly taught him. Really the visits benefitted mom and dad and allowed us to better help DS.

I guess my point to all of this is I personally found it helpful and comforting to have someone independently evaluate my child on a regular basis. Yes, I checked the development charts and knew there may be a slight issue but I didn't/don't have the training to decide if we needed interventions or not. Therefore, I will be taking DD to ALL of her WCV. That's just me though.
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#42 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 11:16 AM
 
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I was all for doing WBV for many of the reasons stated on this thread--it's good to have a relationship with the doc, establish a baseline for what's normal for my dc, etc.... until I mentioned this at our 6 month WBV and our doc said, "no, actually, if you're not vaccinating there's really no reason to do well baby visits." Upon reflection, I then decided that I wasn't ethically comfortable taking a healthy child to the doctor and wasting a public resource (we're Canadians).

So we stopped. I figured I'd take dc in whenever he needed to go--but that was 4 years ago and he hasn't had a serious illness or injury, so we haven't been. It's funny, because I think I'm actually pretty conservative about going to the doctor. I'd take him without hesitation if he was sick. He's just so darned persistently healthy!

We see our doc (everyone in the family shares a family doctor) around town and at the skating rink. I always point him out and say, "there's our doctor!" so dc will have a clue if/when we ever go to the office.
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#43 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 01:56 PM
 
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I have been tring to decide about well baby visits as well. The doctor we were seeing didn't give us a hard time about vaccines, but she has switched to an integrated clinic and not covered by insurance, so we will not be able to see her anymore.

My son has only been to a sick visit once at 9 months (before I knew more about taking care of a sick child) and it was on a holiday so we just went to the ER. He is almost 5 yo and has not been since.

My daughter has never been to a sick visit.

I am considering not going anymore to the WBV since we would have to find a new doctor anyway. I have already found one that I know won't give me a hard time about not vaxing, but I am just not seeing the point. If I thought something was wrong, like a serious delay, I could take the child in.

I was taking them for their well visits so that we could have a relationship with the doc in case the need arose where I needed to take a child in, but I am realizing that alot of kids get sick on the weekend anyway and don't end up seeing their docs, but just go to a clinic. I am not the type to take my kids in for fevers and rashes and such. It would have to be something very serious for me to take them in anyway, and then I could always just take them to a clinic or hospital.

Plus, the doctors office is where all the sick people go (as someone mentioned), so they would be exposed more than usual everytime we walked in the office.

I was talking to dh the other day and mentioned how dd had never been to a sick visit only to well baby visits, he questioned why are we even doing well baby visits. I think he would be on board if we didn't do them anymore.

Guess I was mainly just putting my thoughts down on this. If I did not do well baby visits, I would be the only person I know around here, including everyone in my large AP community, who does not do them, but I guess I am okay with that.
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#44 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 10:51 PM
 
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I was all for doing WBV for many of the reasons stated on this thread--it's good to have a relationship with the doc, establish a baseline for what's normal for my dc, etc.... until I mentioned this at our 6 month WBV and our doc said, "no, actually, if you're not vaccinating there's really no reason to do well baby visits."
Yep...my doc says the same thing.
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#45 of 57 Old 01-21-2009, 11:11 PM
 
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Sorry about your rough visit.

I am lucky, my dr. is old-fashioned and definitely believes in vax, but is open minded and not pushy. They asked for the first few months, then just stopped. It is actually nice that I don't have to hear a lecture every time, I would probably just stop going at all.... It's too bad that so many docs are so closed-minded and uninformed these days.
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#46 of 57 Old 01-22-2009, 05:37 AM
 
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When we were doing WBVs, we just used a naturopath. I don't nkow about CA, but in WA they are able to do just about everything, and although it took a few tries to find one that would see an infant who wasn't also under an MD's care (CYA move on their part), we found one.

Paid out of pocket, too, even though WBVs through an MD or DO would have been free. WELL worth it.
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#47 of 57 Old 01-22-2009, 11:12 AM
 
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I think more people get harassed when they act like there is room for conversion. Just stare at the docs and don't let them sway you, if you feel secure in your decisions. It's not a bad thing to listen to what they say and have questions, but just because they suggest something doesn't mean you have to do it.

But to avoid well child check for this is kinda silly. I do well child checks (and don't vax, either, so it's not about that) for a number of reasons: 1) so I have an established relationship with a doctor (I can never be accused of neglecting my kids' medical needs); 2) I have an established relationship with a doctor, myself, she trusts my judgment as far as when I call and say there is something wrong with my kid, she trusts me that I know what I'm talking about; 3) I was glad I had done them when my (then)17mo had a stroke and we were in and out of the hospital, doing millions of tests and procedures trying to first diagnose it and then treat it, then figure out why it happened; 3) when my kids are sick, she trusts me enough to listen to me on the phone and we decide together if I need to bring the kids in (did for mystery rash that turned out to be an allergy, didn't for mystery rash that turned out to be chicken pox, did for mystery rash that turned out to scarlet fever, didn't for infected ingrown toenail, that kind of stuff).

I also have a friend who had her doc catch a wilm's tumor (a kidney cancer in children) at a routine 6m check up. They removed his kidney the next week, and the oncologists said they caught it early, and even said they were surprised the doctor caught it since it was so small it wasn't causing any symptoms yet.

I think the potential good outweighs the discomfort we might feel at having to justify not vaxxing.
laughup
I also don't vaccinate, but I still do WBV, because I like my ped (even though he is pro vax). I think it's important to develop a relationship with the ped and that he knows my kids and me in case there ever is something more serious than a cold that needs to get taken care of.

Dalila, mom to two boys, 7 and 5

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#48 of 57 Old 01-22-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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I'm due with my first baby in May, so I have not been to a well baby visit yet. If your not vaccinating your baby, what occurs at a well baby visit?

Carolyn
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#49 of 57 Old 01-22-2009, 08:12 PM
 
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I vaccinated my 4 girls, always did WBV, felt obligated. With baby 5 I did not vaccinate and totally skipped the WBV. I can't believe it took me until baby number 5 to figure that one out. So nice to not drag the kiddos to the sick doctors office so they can get a shot so they don't get sick. Crazy! I am pregnant with number 6 and planning on doing the same thing. One of my favorite doctors once said, "We don't really find problems at WBV, if there is a problem with a child the Mother always finds it first, and then we deal with it." I totally believe that to be the case! So freeing not to do the WBV anymore!

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#50 of 57 Old 01-22-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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I don't think anyone should feel like they need to defend their decision to do WBV, or be talked out of going if they find comfort in the experience.

That being said, we went to 1-week and 2-month visits, and have no intentions on going back for a WBV. I got comfort at the time knowing that her soft spot was a normal size, her hips were fine, and she didn't have a heart murmur. I have no other concerns, can see that my child is developing happily and heathily, and no longer feel the need to go in. We will probably follow a similiar schedule with the next babe.

Wife to DH (06/10) and Mummy to DD (07/08).

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#51 of 57 Old 01-23-2009, 12:00 AM
 
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I'm due with my first baby in May, so I have not been to a well baby visit yet. If your not vaccinating your baby, what occurs at a well baby visit?

Carolyn
Well, if you have a supportive doctor, they'll weigh, measure, check that all the little parts are there and in working order, collect your money and send you on your way.

If your doc is not supportive...that will be a whole different experience.

You'll definitely want to find a pediatrician who is supportive of your decision.
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#52 of 57 Old 01-23-2009, 12:28 AM
 
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We don't vaccinate but there are occasionally reasons for WBV. We are getting ready to go on an international trip which will require lots of time in airplanes. My family is prone to getting 'silent' ear infections, some of which end up requiring surgery. Having an ear infection while going through the pressure changes in an airplane is agonizingly painful and can result in permanent damage. I figure going in for a checkup is a good plan.

That said: man I hate well baby visits.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#53 of 57 Old 01-23-2009, 04:29 PM
 
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My family is prone to getting 'silent' ear infections, some of which end up requiring surgery. Having an ear infection while going through the pressure changes in an airplane is agonizingly painful and can result in permanent damage. I figure going in for a checkup is a good plan.
You could also invest in an earscope and learn how to use it, especially if you have alot of ear problems in your family. It is also handy to use the light to shine in the back of your throat.
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#54 of 57 Old 01-24-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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We don't vaccinate but there are occasionally reasons for WBV. We are getting ready to go on an international trip which will require lots of time in airplanes. My family is prone to getting 'silent' ear infections, some of which end up requiring surgery. Having an ear infection while going through the pressure changes in an airplane is agonizingly painful and can result in permanent damage. I figure going in for a checkup is a good plan.

That said: man I hate well baby visits.
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You could also invest in an earscope and learn how to use it, especially if you have alot of ear problems in your family. It is also handy to use the light to shine in the back of your throat.

Otoscope definitely.

And perhaps finding a good chiropractor will help too. If heredity is passing along the particular sort of ear canal that is helping infection along, it also might be passing along the same sort of head and neck bone relationship, and finding a good chiro to gently adjust the upper cervical vertebrae might set your family free from ear infections.




We've been to the ER twice after accidents (a burn and a fall), and they haven't needed to see any past records to care for him.

If DS were to come down with something horrific, I'd be finding a specialist, NOT seeing a ped or even our old ND, so again, there would be no need for past records.

Unless something BAD was there but was missed in those early appts, but then I still wouldn't be seeing that person, but I sure would be getting those records and showing them to a new person and, oh yes, a lawyer.
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#55 of 57 Old 01-26-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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You could also invest in an earscope and learn how to use it, especially if you have alot of ear problems in your family. It is also handy to use the light to shine in the back of your throat.
I'm embarrassed to admit I have never thought of this. Thank you.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#56 of 57 Old 01-31-2009, 02:01 AM
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We stopped going after DD was like 4 or 6 mo, and went in a little after a year when DD was sick (fever for three days... a different ped said it was an infection, gave us rx for antibiotics... the next day it was clear it was roseola ) and DD always freaks out so we just don't go. I've been thinking of going in just for a check up, because I believe in yearly checkups for EVERYONE. I know DH's doc told him not to come in for three years after his last one, but I go every year for my well woman and I just like having someone else's eyes check me over, and the same for DD --just in case there's something I'm missing. I probably wouldn't bother but she has this one bigger breast bud. We've asked about it when she was much younger, on the phone, but I'd just like someone with a medical degree to look at it and tell me it's normal. Yes, I'm willing to bother and spend the $$$ for mommy bear reassurance. Probably silly but it's bothering me, so worth it.
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#57 of 57 Old 02-06-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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I mostly do them. Israel has public health services and I have kind of spread us out so that the doctor we see and the nurse who gives the injections are in different clinics. I just tell the nurse we aren't doing it for now and get a record of DS's growth and development (this was after finally finding a nurse who did not harrass me). After trying to have a discussion with the doctor, I now just take the prescription and don't use it. So far it is working for me.

I have to say that it sounds really insane in the US. I cannot believe the stories I read, well I can, but :

Although I have a WBV coming up and the nurse is hoping I'll do the 1 year shots.... It could get a bit sticky

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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