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#1 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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We started doing well child visits (even though I've always thought they are kind of pointless....) as a just in case thing. I've heard horror stories of nonvaxing parents getting child services called on them, so I wanted all my bases covered to show that we are proactive about their medical care just in case, 'cause you never know. And they're free, so what could it hurt, I thought.

Gosh it is such a PITA every year! I swear the doctors wear my husband down a little bit more every time. We allllmost vax'd this last visit, I can't believe how close we were! For some reason being in that little room with a doctor lecturing you always crumbles my resolve. We have Kaiser, so there's no hope of finding a natural minded Ped. At least they can't refuse to treat us for not vax'ing.

Adding to the issue is that my husband works in a prison and is getting all paranoid about the exposure rate. I mean yeah, he is likely to me exposed to more things, but most of the diseases we would vax for are very, very rare if not almost non existent in the US. And complications are even more rare.

Every time I go to the doctor I post a rant here, lol. Gotta love Kaiser!
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#2 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 03:23 PM
 
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We started doing well child visits (even though I've always thought they are kind of pointless....) as a just in case thing. I've heard horror stories of nonvaxing parents getting child services called on them, so I wanted all my bases covered to show that we are proactive about their medical care just in case, 'cause you never know. And they're free, so what could it hurt, I thought.

Gosh it is such a PITA every year! I swear the doctors wear my husband down a little bit more every time. We allllmost vax'd this last visit, I can't believe how close we were! For some reason being in that little room with a doctor lecturing you always crumbles my resolve. We have Kaiser, so there's no hope of finding a natural minded Ped. At least they can't refuse to treat us for not vax'ing.

Adding to the issue is that my husband works in a prison and is getting all paranoid about the exposure rate. I mean yeah, he is likely to me exposed to more things, but most of the diseases we would vax for are very, very rare if not almost non existent in the US. And complications are even more rare.

Every time I go to the doctor I post a rant here, lol. Gotta love Kaiser!
I agree WBV suck! If your husband is so worried about exposure at his job, tell him to vaccinate himself. If he is worried about getting something and then in turn exposing your child, than it makes more sense to prevent (if you even believe in the efficacy of the vaccines) the disease in your husband in the first place!!Tell him if he is so worried he can take one for the team

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#3 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree WBV suck! If your husband is so worried about exposure at his job, tell him to vaccinate himself. If he is worried about getting something and then in turn exposing your child, than it makes more sense to prevent (if you even believe in the efficacy of the vaccines) the disease in your husband in the first place!!Tell him if he is so worried he can take one for the team
LOL, take one for the team!

He *is* fully vaccinated. You have to be when you're a peace officer (or if you can exempt, it didn't occur to him to try). And he had his boosters years ago at age 18 when he entered the military.

I'm vax'd too. Had boosters at 18 when I didn't know better and was working for a preschool.

I didn't even think of that angle! Duh!
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#4 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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I have Kaiser too and it used to be a much bigger annoyance than it is now. I just say that I will be using a religious exemption for my kids. They don't totally drop it but it's a little better than it used to be a few years ago. My dh doesnt come to well visits w/ me b/c he has a harder time putting up w/ the condescending remarks. He just gets angry and getting mad just makes the docs hate you more so I try to keep him away- for everyone's benefit :-) I just tell myself over and over again- They are trained to do a certain thing and be a certain way. I am not going to change their mind and they need to realize that they are not going to change mind. I state everything very matter of fact and we move on to other topics. I do prefer some peds in Kaiser more than others though. Maybe you could ask to switch to a different one w/in the practice. It might not change anything- but some are more laid back than others. Most of the time younger docs seem to be worse to me than older ones- Maybe it's cuz they're fresh out of med school?

I'm sorry for your crappy visit and even though it sux- just keep holding your ground. And I'll look forward to reading your rant next year! :-)
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#5 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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I'm glad you came here to get some support. It is easy to get worn down. Have you thought about going w/o your DH next year? Then you can say, "I'll keep that in mind when I discuss it with my husband. I can't make this decision without first talking to my husband."
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#6 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm glad you came here to get some support. It is easy to get worn down. Have you thought about going w/o your DH next year? Then you can say, "I'll keep that in mind when I discuss it with my husband. I can't make this decision without first talking to my husband."
That's not a bad idea
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#7 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:01 PM
 
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I'm sorry about your exp. FWIW, I feel the same way that you do, WBV are just such a PITA. What I have done lately though (my kids are now preschool aged) is that I just send my DH with the child that has the appt to the checkup (I just do one a yr now, so that it is on the record in case we are ever accused of anything by child services, we are non-vax too and still lean towards the idea of homeschooling although we are going to try tradiitional school first). Then when the doctor brings up the vax stuff, my DH just says, "my wife told me we're not going to get any vaxes this time." The doc can talk until he's blue in the face, but my DH basically gives the impression that I am the one who makes the decision about vax, so it's not much use for him to try to convince my DH. I am lucky that my DH is on board with me too. Both of us are HCP, so maybe that is one reason we don't feel as intimidated when they do, "the talk," b/c they can't act like I am some nobody that doesn't know anything about medicine.

FWIW, our ped isn't TOO bad. He's not overly pushy, BUT he still feels the need to ask us each time and try to convince us of the vax that he feels are most important. I think mostly he does it so he can chart that he discussed it with us and that we refused, to cover his butt. Can't say that I don't blame him with the way that things are now in healthcare. I am pg again with baby #3. I am not sure how many WBV we will go to this time, since I just refuse all vax. I've had the staff give me issues before, "that is such a long time btwn appts, your baby's shots will be late" and I just shoot back, "well, I guess that doesn't matter to me, b/c my kids don't get vax anyway." I'm usually met by silence, b/c really there is NO point in going to every single WBV if you aren't doing the vax per their schedule. By now, you would think that the doc would realize that I have my mind set and not even bother trying. It's not like they haven't tried to talk me into it before. I will have to go with the baby for WBV since I BF my kids and it's always such a longggg wait at the doc's office, the baby will need to nurse some time during the wait. I'm dreading it.
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#8 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, we also only do one WBV a year.

It always makes me LOL every time because the doctor is like "well your kids are growing well meeting all their milestones and still in the 50th percentile for weight and height"

I'm like yeah, I could have told you that :P
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#9 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:10 PM
 
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Thanks for reminding me why I don't do them

-Angela
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#10 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for reminding me why I don't do them

-Angela
I am so tempted to just be like "F it!" and stop them. They really are obnoxious.

I mean, I don't ever hold off if I think my kids need to see the doctor (which is very rare, I think each of them have seen a doctor from an illness like twice in their entire lives), but I think well child visits are so pointless overall.
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#11 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:20 PM
 
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I am so tempted to just be like "F it!" and stop them. They really are obnoxious.

I mean, I don't ever hold off if I think my kids need to see the doctor (which is very rare, I think each of them have seen a doctor from an illness like twice in their entire lives), but I think well child visits are so pointless overall.
I don't have time or money to do something like WBV as just a CYA thing. I wouldn't get anything out of it except headaches.

A LOT of people know my kids and would vouch for me as a parent if it came down to it. I'm not worried about CPS at all. I'd be more worried a health-care provider would report us than anything else.

-Angela
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#12 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a ton of friends and we just moved to a new area so I don't really have a lot of people who'd vouch for me if it came to that.

I kind of doubt Kaiser would or could report us just for not vax'ing...and even if they did, it's perfectly legal in CA not to vax and my kids are not abused, are super healthy, normal weight and development.
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#13 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 04:23 PM
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I would just keep repeating - thanks for letting me know your side, we still aren't vaccinating. after every single comment they make. or "yes, I've heard that before. I've fully researched BOTH sides to the issue, which is why we are not vaccinating" just pick a statement and keep repeating it. If they ask you a what if question or other type of question be prepared with another response you can use for question type answers. Or something like "yeah, there sure are a lot of what ifs out there. I fear the what ifs of vaccinating are a lot more common and scarier then the what ifs of not vaccinating though. so we aren't vaccinating."

it is tough though. total PITA. my dr's thankfully never say a word even though they are pro vax they are really respectful of my choice.
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#14 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 05:35 PM
 
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I have Kaiser and the only Ped I saw was annoying. I ended up choosing an FP instead as DS's primary care physician. The FP has been great! They ask we if are vaxing today and I say NO. They say absolutely NOTHING.

I'd recommend switching to an FP with Kaiser.

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#15 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Kaiser and the only Ped I saw was annoying. I ended up choosing an FP instead as DS's primary care physician. The FP has been great! They ask we if are vaxing today and I say NO. They say absolutely NOTHING.

I'd recommend switching to an FP with Kaiser.
How did you manage that? Here you either can see a Ped or a doctor that does adults. They have separate buildings for each and everything.
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#16 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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When I received the information about choosing a primary care physician for DS, they listed 4 FP's along with the Ped's. You should be able to go on to Kaiser's website and check the Dr's that are listed as FP's in your area. An FP can take any patient of any age.

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#17 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe it depends on your area. All I have ever seen for my kids are Peds.
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#18 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 06:01 PM
 
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I once was literally chased around the exam room by a Kaiser Dr with a vax booster shot that didn't want to take my no, and I was over 18. :
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#19 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 06:14 PM
 
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I don't know where you are in Sacramento but I found this listing of Dr's in South Sacramento. https://members.kaiserpermanente.org...ialtysearch.do

Click continue after you hit the link.

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#20 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 06:19 PM
 
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This is why we don't do them. I figure for what they really do as a momma I can figure out if my child is well. I can use a scale, tell if they can hear me, see me etc. The internet is a tremendous resource for developmental milestones etc.

My son is 8 and been to the doctor once in his life. My daughter is 5 and never been.

i just don't see the point and to be honest, I don't need the harrassment.

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#21 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 07:03 PM
 
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It's not illegal to not vaccinate your child. I understand wanting to CYA--I took my baby in for his newborn hearing test and exam when he was a week old. But we don't do WBVs now and we never will. I don't want to take him in that germy doctor's office anyway.

If you haven't already read them, Raising Healthy Babies and Children by Aviva Jill Romm and How to Raise a Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor by Robert Mendelsohn, MD are great books to have on hand. There's often no need to see a pediatrician even when your child is ill, let alone when they're perfectly healthy.

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#22 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know where you are in Sacramento but I found this listing of Dr's in South Sacramento. https://members.kaiserpermanente.org...ialtysearch.do

Click continue after you hit the link.
Yes I have seen that listing. I've never seen a family physician on it.

We go to the Roseville facility as I am just outside of Sac.
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#23 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 08:31 PM
 
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I have heard that the Kaiser doc's here (I'm in Placerville btw) are UBER pushy. They DO NOT take NO for an answer on ANYTHING that they think is 'right'. I would either 1)get your exemption form filled out and put in their chart-IN THE FRONT or write a letter stating that you UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will vax your child.

2) I would have a meeting with the doctor(s) of the practice and tell them that you feel that they are harrassing you based on your INFORMED decision to NOT vaccinate your child. I would also tell them that you will file a complaint if the harrasment does not stop.

Stand firm. Leave DH home. Is there some sort of Patient Advocate that you can contact and tell them that you are being harassed because of your decision to not vax? Kaiser opperates in it's own realm, but there are checks and balances that you can go through if you are a 'dissatisfyied' patient.

IF none of this works, and they continue to harass you I would start demanding a family doctor or an Osteopath. I KNOW that Kaiser allows FP and Ostieopaths' to see children- I have friends in that use them for their kids.

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this drama. I don't know that I would continue to go to WBV just because they are free. I also don't agree that WBV are going to provide you with any protection via CPS either.

For any mom's looking for a nice doc that does not hound over vax's and is foreskin friendly PLEASE call Dr. Garg I wish everyone could have a doc like her.

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#24 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 09:57 PM
 
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It's not illegal not to vaccinate your child and it's not illegal not to take you healthy child to the doctor.
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#25 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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It's not illegal not to vaccinate your child and it's not illegal not to take you healthy child to the doctor.
I didn't mean to indicate that I thought either of those things were illegal. I know they are not.

There ARE, however, some areas that make it harder to get an exception, so that's what I meant when I used the word "legal" which I suppose was the wrong word to use. I guess "allowed" is a better word.

And about the doctor's visits, it is probably a debatable point, but it can be a red flag to some CPS workers if your child never sees the doctor. I was just being extra cautious.
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#26 of 57 Old 01-19-2009, 10:09 PM
 
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Got ya. California seems like a pretty laid back place for AP and non-vax families.

The whole CPS thing sometimes makes me wonder, but we don't do wbv - I don't want to bring my healthy ds into the doc's office to pick up some bugs, kwim?

It's stupid that we have to worry about not taking our healthy children to the doctor.
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#27 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 03:06 AM
 
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I hated WBV as well, but there were times when having Dr. Paul M. Fleiss on my side worked to my advantage, especially in the ER and being accused of child abuse.
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#28 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 10:48 AM
 
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IMO, well visits are pointless. And I'd be more scared of CPS if I WENT to them. Pissed of Ped. more likely to call than anyone else...

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#29 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 11:41 AM
 
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We've partially vaxed (stopped when dd turned 12 months), and we've been getting not so subtle comments lately Bleh.

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#30 of 57 Old 01-20-2009, 11:46 AM
 
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I haven't brought dd in over a year and called the office the other day to schedule a "WBV". They were like, "have you been bringing her somewhere else in the meantime?" I guess they were shocked that she hasn't gotten sick in over a year...

Anyway, just do what makes you comfortable. If you go because you like to have a record there's nothing wrong with that. Just stand your ground! And leave dh home if he's wavering.
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