...but if your child gets Polio you'll never forgive yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 45 Old 01-27-2009, 02:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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was the comment I got this evening over dinner.

why is it always the 'You'll never forgive yourself" comment?

Ugh!

I tried to explain about polio diminishing BEFORE the vax was mass introduced. Deaf ears.

Just needed to rant.
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#2 of 45 Old 01-27-2009, 03:23 AM
 
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I have a 70~ year old relative who had polio as a child. Back then his family knew nothing about proper nutrition and sanitation. One of his legs is a few inches shorter than the other so he wears special shoes. When the pediatrician tried to scare me with polio saying my DD would be crippled forever or die and it would be my fault, I told him about this relative. He pretty much told me he didn't have polio simply because it wasn't as scary as he knew polio should be. This doctor looks no older than 35. I doubt he has a clue what polio is really like apart from what he's been told. I found out today that I was never vaccinated for polio. I guess I should be crippled or dead and I should blame my mother. The vaccine simply wasn't given where we were living. Wonder why no one else around me got polio since we were all unvaccinated in that case.

People really should stop letting fear blind them.
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#3 of 45 Old 01-27-2009, 03:34 AM
 
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"Your right, and I would also never forgive myself if he had a bad reaction to the shot. The chances of him contracting Polio in this country are a lot smaller than the possibility of an adverse reaction to the shot."
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#4 of 45 Old 01-27-2009, 11:59 AM
 
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Actually if my kid got polio I would really be wondering where they got it from. And I would be amazed any dr would be able to diagnosis it. I would probably be too stunned to be hating myself.

I also hear the "you'll never forgive yourself." About hbing and co sleeping.

I probably would be snarky and say, "How would you know? Do you have a lot of regret about your parenting practices?"

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#5 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 03:26 AM
 
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You know, I have heard this and it simply is not true. I would not blame myself if my child came down with polio or measles or any other VAD. I would simply treat my child and see that they get well. I would not feel terrible because my child got sick, especailly since I know how ineffective vaxes can be. Now I would never forgive myself if my child was damaged by a vaccine. I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one.

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#6 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 06:28 AM
 
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Actually if my kid got polio I would really be wondering where they got it from. And I would be amazed any dr would be able to diagnosis it. I would probably be too stunned to be hating myself.
Me too. Oh, and I'd also be too busy helping DS through it to think about all of that.


It's also a totally silly thought, it's coming from the idea that vaccinations work 100%! You could get the shots and still get it. THEN where would you be? Or, maybe not worst, but really bad case scenario...get the shot, have a reaction AND get polio! Ack!

I'll take just the natural disease, thank you.



SAD story coming up, upsetting stuff, don't read if sensitive!!!!!!!!











Oh, and my grandmother's first daughter died, supposedly of polio. Grandma, grandpa, and second DD didn't get polio, but the one did. Grandma was pregnant at the time, too, with my mom. don't know if that affects anything but it's part of the story.

But when you ask my aunt (second daughter) about the situation, you get a rather ugly story...DD got sick during a polio outbreak, DD had a fever. DD ordered to hospital, grandma and grandpa ordered HOME. Could not stay with DD. WEre called about 12 hours later to come pick her up, she had died. Got there, out of their minds with horror, DD was still on a gurney in the hallway, had never been seen, had obviously been there for a few hours and no one had noticed her passing....

So when you really look at it, she didn't die of polio, she died of neglect. And who knows if she really had polio, since no one is now around to say how they diagnosed it.


Grandmother's father also got a child through diphtheria (she was one of 6 children and only she got it), so I'm not afraid of that, either.
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#7 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 12:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pyrodjm View Post
You know, I have heard this and it simply is not true. I would not blame myself if my child came down with polio or measles or any other VAD. I would simply treat my child and see that they get well. I would not feel terrible because my child got sick, especailly since I know how ineffective vaxes can be. Now I would never forgive myself if my child was damaged by a vaccine. I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one.


This, especially the bolded part. Well said!

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#8 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one.
Oooh, well said! May I borrow that (with credit, of course)?

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#9 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 01:50 PM
 
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Well, I'd feel more guilty if I injected something into my child and it caused a bad reaction. We don't feel guilty when we're making decision based on what we truly feel are best. If you wanted to vax, didn't, and then your child got injured from a VPD, maybe you'd feel guilty. But knowing what we do about vax's and "the business" of vaccines, I would feel much guiltier with those causing injury.

My son just got diagnosed with celiac disease. He's been sick with tummy issues since he was a baby. I wonder how much damage I did to him through vaccines. I stopped when he was 2, but he had 19 shots before then! Now he has an auto-immune disorder and I have no idea if the vaccines contributed to the early onset of the auto-immune disorder. That makes me feel guilty.

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#10 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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The following link shows a spreadsheet of about every nation and the incidence of polio over the last twenty years. The chart is put out by the WHO.

In the US there hasn't been a case of polio since 1986.

WHO GRAPH

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#11 of 45 Old 01-28-2009, 09:25 PM
 
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milkybean, that is a sad, sad, sad story.

I'm starting to consider asking, "When was the last time you had a vaccine for M, M, R or polio? Do you get boosters? Are you worrid about polio?" It's crazy how many adults get their kids in for every WBV/injection party and haven't had a shot themselves since age 12. Agh.

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#12 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 02:08 AM
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I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one.
AMEN!! I love this - can I steal it as my new mantra?
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#13 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 03:17 PM
 
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My ped. had the gall to tell me that of all vaccines, Polio is one of the MOST important ones. I was like "Seriously? There has been NO polio since the 70's here in the US!" I asked her why and she said bc it's serious and could come back of we all stop vaxing for it. I told her that if it made a big comeback I would be first in line to get my child vaccinated. She told me it would be too late at that point. OK..why?? If it's effective, why would it be too late? She didn't directly answer me there and I got tired of arguing w/ someone who obviously isn't willing to bend.
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#14 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 03:19 PM
 
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humm...well that WHO report says the 80's but I could have swore I read somewhere (maybe in The Vaccine Book?) that there hasn't been any wild polio in America since '79. Either way, it's NOT the most important vaccine a child should be getting here in the US, by FAR.
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#15 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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humm...well that WHO report says the 80's but I could have swore I read somewhere (maybe in The Vaccine Book?) that there hasn't been any wild polio in America since '79. Either way, it's NOT the most important vaccine a child should be getting here in the US, by FAR.
The graph also says this
Quote:
Polio refers to all polio cases (indigenous or imported), including polio cases caused by vaccine derived polio viruses (VDPV);
the cases after the 70's probably refer to imported cases or vaccine derived cases.

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#16 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 03:32 PM
 
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I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#17 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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Oooh, well said! May I borrow that (with credit, of course)?
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AMEN!! I love this - can I steal it as my new mantra?
Go ahead.

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#18 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 06:32 PM
 
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The following link shows a spreadsheet of about every nation and the incidence of polio over the last twenty years. The chart is put out by the WHO.

In the US there hasn't been a case of polio since 1986.

WHO GRAPH
There were 4 or 5 cases is MN in 2005 that aren't on the chart.
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#19 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 07:37 PM
 
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There were 4 or 5 cases is MN in 2005 that aren't on the chart.
I had to go look that up and talk about scaring me about shedding! http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/i...o/poliomn.html

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This infant was infected through exposure to someone who was shedding vaccine-related poliovirus. We do not know who that person is and though MDH is conducting a thorough investigation, we may never know. However, it is unlikely that the person who exposed this infant to vaccine-derived poliovirus was the original oral polio vaccine recipient since this vaccine has not been used in the U.S. since 2000 and people with healthy immune systems do not usually shed poliovirus for more than a few weeks. It is possible that this vaccine-derived poliovirus strain infected a number of other people before being spread to this infant.
So neat, 5 years after it was stopped being used that is still circulating in people and being shed. Oh sure live vaccines are perfectly safe! Holy Cow!

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#20 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 07:49 PM
 
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There were 4 or 5 cases is MN in 2005 that aren't on the chart.

So, even the WHO is wrong sometimes......gasp...imagine!

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#21 of 45 Old 01-29-2009, 11:28 PM
 
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I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"
A very good point.

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#22 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 12:26 AM
 
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I get a similar comment from my mom of all people all the time, mainly because she doesn't know what else to tell me about our decision not to vaccinate. "Well, Janice's brother did from polio and she used to tell us all about how they couldn't go to the movies or anywhere because polio was so bad and so many people were dying from it." It always gets under my skin!! Mind you...the friend she's referring to is in her late 60s now!
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#23 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 12:33 AM
 
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We did a wbv at 3 days and 10 days and then never went back (we were going to do the 2 mth and then yearly visits just to please DP bc I was tired of arguing about it but then we lost our insurance so we couldn't go anyway) and the doc was okay with not vaxing .. sort of .. he said he wasn't going to push it (and the times we were there, he didn't) but that he would encourage it and if we decided not to, then so be it. He showed me a chart, just out of pure education since I was obviously researching this and had been for awhile, that showed how all these diseases started to disappear AFTER the vaxes were out. (He was really great guy and I would probably have gone to more wbv just because he was really nice and really cool. He also had a private practice and we were never in the waiting room so I wouldn't be as concerned about picking up anything there as I would at most other places. I do wish we still had insurance for him as a just in case deal )I was a bit confused since I have seen report after report after report that many diseases (esp polio) decreased well before the vaxes were out. Now I agree, polio was already decreasing way before the vaxes were out and there is no way - as pp have said - that i would damage a healthy child by compromising her immune system. But I am really curious as to where people get these charts saying vaxes were the reason for the decline in these diseases.

Anyhow, I also get that line a lot and I have used the "well I would rather my child get a disease she can over come than one she cant, like autism". Although I have heard about a diet that can help reverse it. People tell me that autism isn't actually linked but then I ask them why the government has a special fund set up to give money to families whose children have developed it due to DPT shots.
Oh, in the hospital, I was told that I had to give my daughter the Hep B vax because I didn't know my own status!

I don't believe in the efficiency of vaxes anyhow, since I still got mumps. I also don't believe in the need for a lot of them (like chicken pox .. seriously? we can't let our kids get chicken pox anymore?) especially when the body better innoculates itself after being exposed to the disease naturally. people annoy me ...

Anyhow, I'm rambling, but I agree with PP in saying that I'd rather nurture a sick children than damage a healthy one. I also what someone said in another thread that our children's bodies are not our own and therefore we can not make such harsh decisions for them. If they choose to be vaxed or circ then that is their choice to make and not ours. (I use that one a lot too, although the hospital gave me a come back with the 'but it is our duty to take care of those bodies until they are old enough' to which I replied 'yes, I know and I will do that by not compromising her immune system' .. not the best come back but how many people would really think of that come back? that nurse is only one so far)

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#24 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 01:26 AM
 
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If they choose to be vaxed or circ then that is their choice to make and not ours. (I use that one a lot too, although the hospital gave me a come back with the 'but it is our duty to take care of those bodies until they are old enough' to which I replied 'yes, I know and I will do that by not compromising her immune system' .. not the best come back but how many people would really think of that come back? that nurse is only one so far)
I guess she was too ignorant/stupid to see the paradox. Circumcision removes skin with thousands of nerves. Painful. Vaccines are potentially fatal. Ouch? So if it is, as she says, our duty to protect them, how does that equate with vaccination/circumcision? I would have probably been rude to her, to say the least...
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#25 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 01:38 AM
 
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But I am really curious as to where people get these charts saying vaxes were the reason for the decline in these diseases.
All they do is take a snippet from the same charts we are looking at, starting at the year vaxes were introduced. The decrease was already happening or they would show you from the height of infection.

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#26 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 02:12 AM
 
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Full Heart: Interesting .. I never thought of that

Buttercupmama: The hospital was a last minute ordeal (and horrible one at that) and this nurse was the only person who wasn't be absolutely horrible to me. The OB on call, actually walked out on me and a whole bunch of nurses had to talk her back in to coming in the room to delivery the baby. She (the nurse) even came my room the next day just to see how I was doing and say hi, so the last person I was going to be rude to at that point was her. But I fully agree with you and I do use that with anyone who tries to say that I need to take care of her by vaxing (and any future son by circ bc 'its just normal' and 'i know a guy who wasn't and he hated it') I try not to get into with people but sometimes I just have to .. and I do get mean

and to the OP: Sorry I sort of hijacked your thread .. you can take it back now

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#27 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 04:17 AM
 
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She told me it would be too late at that point. OK..why?? .
speaking to the person that you were talking to...

So if there were an outbreak, it would be too late at that point? Then...how on earth was their vaccine sooooo effective when it was created? Hmm? All vaccines were created during outbreaks....


caro113, hugs to you for having an OB walking out on you like that. Happened with my homebirth midwife, too...I had to apologize to her before she'd come back to the room and continue to stay with me...of course, I should have let her leave, she sent me right to the hospital after quite a bit of mindgame nonsense!
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#28 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 02:06 PM
 
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The day after I got my polio vaccine in 1984, when I was one, I stopped walking for a week. (So I think it was the killed virus, but not positive on that.) My mom was convinced that I had gotten polio from the vaccine and that I'd never walk again. The doctors, of course, blew her off and said it was coincidence.

I truly wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something like THAT happened to one of my kids. If I gave them a vaccine and they had some terrible reaction.

Besides, like has been pointed out many times before, most of the terrible crippling cases of polio 50 and 60 years ago was actually DDT poisoning, not polio. I believe that is what crippled my FIL when he was a little boy.
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#29 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 02:24 PM
 
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All they do is take a snippet from the same charts we are looking at, starting at the year vaxes were introduced. The decrease was already happening or they would show you from the height of infection.
Yep...and speaking of that.....

Here are the charts that show the decline was already happening before the vaccines were introduced:

Vaccine charts

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#30 of 45 Old 01-30-2009, 06:29 PM
 
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The day after I got my polio vaccine in 1984, when I was one, I stopped walking for a week. (So I think it was the killed virus, but not positive on that.)
I think OPV (the live one) was used until the late 1990's. I don't know if that means IPV was used in some places in the U.S. or not. I'm sure someone else would know more about that, or the info may be somewhere on InsideVaccines.com.

Quote:
I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"
Not to mention the facts that:

-the diagnostic criteria for polio was changed after the vaccine came into widespread use
-people were not even tested for polio, they were diagnosed based on a set of symptoms. So from my understanding, no blood tests, etc.

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