Should non-vaxed kids be allowed to attend public school? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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On another website this question was posed in a poll. I was shocked that the question was even asked (I naively believed that freedom of choice was universally accepted) but I was FLOORED by the results. 53% said "no."

fear of the unvaxed just shows such a basic lack of understanding about what immunization is all about - it is so frustrating. Kind of demoralizing to me. My baby isn't born yet and the idea of hiding my convictions is counter to my loud, opinionated personality! But with this kind of opposition I can see why people keep it secret.
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#2 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 05:32 AM
 
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This is what confuses me so much about parents who choose to vax. If they believe that vaccines prevent their child from getting all these diseases, why should an unvaxed child be of any concern to them one way or another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way an infected unvaxed person should be able to infect a vaxed person would be if the vaccine doesn't work. In which case, why are they bothering to inject all this stuff into their kids, just on the off chance that it might prevent the disease? :

I really don't understand this line of thinking.

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#3 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by notjustmamie View Post
This is what confuses me so much about parents who choose to vax. If they believe that vaccines prevent their child from getting all these diseases, why should an unvaxed child be of any concern to them one way or another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way an infected unvaxed person should be able to infect a vaxed person would be if the vaccine doesn't work. In which case, why are they bothering to inject all this stuff into their kids, just on the off chance that it might prevent the disease? :

I really don't understand this line of thinking.
ding ding ding!
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#4 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 09:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by notjustmamie View Post
This is what confuses me so much about parents who choose to vax. If they believe that vaccines prevent their child from getting all these diseases, why should an unvaxed child be of any concern to them one way or another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way an infected unvaxed person should be able to infect a vaxed person would be if the vaccine doesn't work. In which case, why are they bothering to inject all this stuff into their kids, just on the off chance that it might prevent the disease? :

I really don't understand this line of thinking.

Hi, Mommies!!!

I'm new to the forum. I have a 2 Month old daughter and she has not been vaccinated and she won't be. And I agree with you notjustmamie. I recently was told that the schools here in SC ( not sure how true that is...will have to research that) will separate nonvax children from vax children and this was my same thought.
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#5 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 10:08 AM
 
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we do vax, but I had to respond.
If it's not safe to allow my vaccinated kids to be around non-vaccinated ones...why vaccinate my kids at all? Isn't protecting them from these diseases supposed to be the whole point? If these vaccinations are all so wonderful, why should I care whether my kids' friends haven't been vaccinated?
It makes absolutely no sense. It's just their way of enforcing compulsory vaccinations (which is honestly the only reason we do it). It's sad that the mainstream seems not to see that, and buys into the idea that un-vaxed kids are somehow dangerous...like a dog without a rabies shot!

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#6 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 10:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by notjustmamie View Post
This is what confuses me so much about parents who choose to vax. If they believe that vaccines prevent their child from getting all these diseases, why should an unvaxed child be of any concern to them one way or another?
I think you have to give people who vax a little credit. I know plenty of folks who do vaccinate their kids, and none of them believe that the vaxes confer 100% immunity. They are vaxing because it lowers their kids' (already low, admittedly) chances of getting the disease. Another way to do that is to keep them away from kids who are more likely to have said disease. I'm not saying it's good science, but it does make sense.
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#7 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 10:26 AM
 
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Ignorance of what and how vaxes work is the only reason I can see for people to vote that way. When I really think about it, it's disturbing on so many levels.

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#8 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 01:47 PM
 
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I think you have to give people who vax a little credit. I know plenty of folks who do vaccinate their kids, and none of them believe that the vaxes confer 100% immunity. They are vaxing because it lowers their kids' (already low, admittedly) chances of getting the disease. Another way to do that is to keep them away from kids who are more likely to have said disease. I'm not saying it's good science, but it does make sense.

I find this interesting because I have read SOOOOO many studies of completely vaccinated children coming down with said disease. In outbreaks of certain diseases, the % of vaxed kids is usually as high almost if not higher than the unvaxed kids so unvaxed kids are really NO more likely to come down with said disease than one who is vaccinated.
Also if you are a person who believes that the best defense against any disaese is a robust immune system, than they might think their child would actually be LESS likely to come down with said disease because vaxing supresses the branch of immune system that attacks and fights off disease.

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#9 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 02:04 PM
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ding ding ding Marnica!

vaccines weaken the immune system. especially so many so soon.
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#10 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 02:42 PM
 
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@ mntnmom: Vaccines aren't compulsory in Germany. You do not need to vax. Schools do not ask about "immunization" status. My old doc in Munich even discouraged me from getting any vaccines at all.
Vaccines were compulsary in Ex-East-Germany. But now they are not! Many people choose not to vaccinate. There are lots of people in Nordrhein-Westfalen who don't, measles comes and goes in waves there. Oh and vaxxed kiddos get it too!!!!

I agree - what's the deal, if your vaccines work, why bother about the unvaxxed? I will never volunteer the info to anyone who asks I think. For me, my baby is up to date on his shots. People just freak out and pretend like you are nuts and want to call CPS. It's so sad. Live and let be.
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#11 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mntnmom View Post
we do vax, but I had to respond.
If it's not safe to allow my vaccinated kids to be around non-vaccinated ones...why vaccinate my kids at all? Isn't protecting them from these diseases supposed to be the whole point? If these vaccinations are all so wonderful, why should I care whether my kids' friends haven't been vaccinated?
It makes absolutely no sense. It's just their way of enforcing compulsory vaccinations (which is honestly the only reason we do it). It's sad that the mainstream seems not to see that, and buys into the idea that un-vaxed kids are somehow dangerous...like a dog without a rabies shot!
Yep, I agree. Why inject your child with something that you don't have 100% faith in. MY unvaxed kids are NOT a threat to anyone - especially those who vax. If anything it is those who ARE vaxed that are the threat to MY kids through shedding. But you don't see me answering some poll not allowing vaxed kids into school.

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#12 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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exactly melissa!
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#13 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 05:28 PM
 
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probably because of the theory of "herd immunity". many parents are told by doctors that vaccines work best when EVERYONE is vaccinated.

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#14 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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ok... I just read this:
Quote:
What they’re referring to is called “secondary vaccine failure”, an almost paradoxical situation resulting in the more effective vaccines losing effectiveness over time as a direct result of their own initial effectiveness. For some time after MMR was introduced, the wild viruses still circulated, which artificially inflated the estimated vaccine efficacy, because people who got the vaccine, still*encountered the viruses occasionally. With a higher vaccine uptake, the ability for immunity to be “boosted” by natural exposure disappeared. Such logic is being admitted to now, to prepare adults for being re-vaccinated with the MMR throughout their lives.
(from inside vaccines)

so, um, shouldn't that make it GOOD to get exposed occasionally to the wild virus to get a natural booster

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#15 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 08:37 PM
 
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Another way to do that is to keep them away from kids who are more likely to have said disease. I'm not saying it's good science, but it does make sense.
I think the opposite is true. Since drs aren't diagnosing kids with VPD simply because of vax status kids are walking around with VPD where as kids who aren't vaxed are more likely to be diagnosed correctly and not be out and about making other sick.

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#16 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 10:23 PM
 
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The school and the vax parents want me to pay my taxes to the school. But they don't want my unvaxed kid in "their" school. I'll happily stop paying my taxes then.

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#17 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 01:47 AM
 
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eh, I kind see this as a plus, less pressure to box school. My immediate reaction is good riddence
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#18 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 02:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jahauna's mommy View Post
Hi, Mommies!!!

I'm new to the forum. I have a 2 Month old daughter and she has not been vaccinated and she won't be. And I agree with you notjustmamie. I recently was told that the schools here in SC ( not sure how true that is...will have to research that) will separate nonvax children from vax children and this was my same thought.
hi, welcome to the boards
im in sc too, and this is not true. a non-vaccinated sc child goes to the same school, same classroom as a vaccinated child. we have a medical exemption (must be from a dr) and a religious exemption available to use if we don't vaccinate.

if there is an outbreak of what they call a "vpd" ("vaccine-preventable disease") in the school, like measles or something, they'll ask your kid to stay home for a week or so.

eta
there is no "scarlet letter" or anything that marks your child as being vaxed or not, either. it's private.

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#19 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 02:29 AM
 
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Some think not vaxing is weird and fringy. Some justifiably worry that their child would be at risk. Maybe they have reason to believe that their child would be a vaccine failure. Maybe their child was unable to be vaccinated for other health reasons. People with low immunity need to have a highly immune population to protect them from disease exposure.
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#20 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 09:30 AM
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^so those poeple think we should risk our children for theirs ? yeah, I can understand that. we all have our own children as a priority.... but that is exactly why we make decisions for our own chilren and not theirs. of course we worry to that a vaccinated child could get our child sick with something (unless of course we want our child to get it so they can have true life long immunity and do FAR more then any vaccinated child in contributing towards the GOAL of herd immunity, since herd immunity will never truly exist with vaccines)
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#21 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Some think not vaxing is weird and fringy.
WOOHOO!! I'm weird and fringy!!!! I love it, better than "crunchy"
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#22 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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The school and the vax parents want me to pay my taxes to the school. But they don't want my unvaxed kid in "their" school. I'll happily stop paying my taxes then.

I love this... never really thought about it that way before. I'm with you!

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#23 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 11:45 AM
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I heard if you homeschool you can file something to not have to pay school taxes (though, this was through hearsay - my husband said his dad said that his uncle did this LOL)
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I heard if you homeschool you can file something to not have to pay school taxes (though, this was through hearsay - my husband said his dad said that his uncle did this LOL)
That seems pretty unlikely being that even the childless, the old, and those who send their children to private school all have to pay the same school taxes. Maybe there is some way to get some share of the funds that would have been paid to the school for that child. Maybe in some communities (this is just guessing, I've not really heard of it) you get a stipend to spend toward the cost of education materials if you homeschool. When my mom first homeschooled my sister it was through a program through the school district and they gave my mom a "budget" to pick out and "buy" certain approved district materials (textbooks, workbooks, art materials, etc). My mom never received any actual money, but it sure helped out financially in that she spent way less on homeschooling materials than she otherwise would have.

Sorry for straying a bit off topic

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#25 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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I heard if you homeschool you can file something to not have to pay school taxes (though, this was through hearsay - my husband said his dad said that his uncle did this LOL)
Not true as far as I can tell. Same w/private school, you still pay school taxes. Maybe that's just in NY, though? If you don't have school age children, you can file for a STAR exemption, and reduce your taxes, though...

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#26 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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I heard if you homeschool you can file something to not have to pay school taxes (though, this was through hearsay - my husband said his dad said that his uncle did this LOL)
Not true. I know here there has been quite an uproar about the retirement communities needing to pay taxes for education. Their logic is that its good for society so they should pay their taxes . Some states do have vouchers but you still have to pay your taxes.

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#27 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 12:52 PM
 
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^so those poeple think we should risk our children for theirs ?
I don't think most think you should risk your children for theirs, but they do think that you should keep your children away from theirs.
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#28 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 01:01 PM
 
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The assumption here is that unvaccinated children are reservoirs of disease, when in fact it is freshly vaccinated kids who are walking around shedding live viruses all over the place. Unvaxed does not equal infected, but the way I've heard it spoken about you'd think all unvaccinated children are another Typhoid Mary just waiting to happen.

The lack of basic logic is just :

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#29 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 01:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jahauna's mommy View Post
Hi, Mommies!!!

I'm new to the forum. I have a 2 Month old daughter and she has not been vaccinated and she won't be. And I agree with you notjustmamie. I recently was told that the schools here in SC ( not sure how true that is...will have to research that) will separate nonvax children from vax children and this was my same thought.
Welcome!!! Your question looks familiar.

Your child won't be separated in school or daycare for not being vaccinated. A vaxed kindergarten class and an unvaxed one?! No way. In fact, no one should even know except for you and the school nurse.

''''

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#30 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 11:14 PM
 
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eh, I kind see this as a plus, less pressure to box school. My immediate reaction is good riddence
I totally agree.

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