The time is pretty much here and I don't know what to do! - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I lived a very naive life when I had DD1 and DS. They are both up to date on vaccinations, and never missed a well baby visit. Well, overtime we changed. We saw the light about so many things in life (mainstream society!) We now have an 8.5 week old who has been to well baby visits (few days, and two weeks) but did not receive the hep B at birth. Her two month check up is on Monday and I don't know what to do! I didn't do my research. Part of me wants to just do it all because I don't want to upset the ped that we've been seeing for nearly six years (really screwed up of me to think this way, but I have trouble standing up for myself and I hate confrontation). I deeply feel that DD2 doesn't need vaccines (especially right now!) but I like I said, I didn't do my research on this topic. I was thinking more along the lines of selective and/or delayed vaccinations, but I don't know! Please help me make an educated/informed decision! I only have two days!

TIA!

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#2 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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Perhaps you could call or send a note ahead of time and reschedule the appointment if needed.

"I have recently felt a calling from God to discontinue vaccinations. This has been a very scary and difficult decision to make, but I feel I must follow my faith. We are very appreciative of the care you have provided for our children so far, and quite frankly do not want to lose you. Others have mentioned being "fired" by their pediatrician for this, and I can't imagine not being able to obtain health care for my child based on my religious views. I hope you will continue to take care of our family, and I will let you know if I ever feel differently about vaccinations."

If she asks what religion you are or anything else, I would just say that you are uncomfortable discussing that at this time and redirect the convo to child development, growth curve, etc.

hh2.gif

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#3 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Perhaps you could call or send a note ahead of time and reschedule the appointment if needed.

"I have recently felt a calling from God to discontinue vaccinations. This has been a very scary and difficult decision to make, but I feel I must follow my faith. We are very appreciative of the care you have provided for our children so far, and quite frankly do not want to lose you. Others have mentioned being "fired" by their pediatrician for this, and I can't imagine not being able to obtain health care for my child based on my religious views. I hope you will continue to take care of our family, and I will let you know if I ever feel differently about vaccinations."

If she asks what religion you are or anything else, I would just say that you are uncomfortable discussing that at this time and redirect the convo to child development, growth curve, etc.

Can I steal your words?

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#4 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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absolutely. i know some on here may say you don't sugar coat it, you just decline, but i think coming on soft at first works better. Obviously if you need to be bitchy to decline, go ahead, but otherwise you catch more flies with honey.

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#5 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:23 PM
 
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Don't do anything until you've researched and you feel comfortable with your decisions. You can vaccinate, if that's what you end up deciding to do, at a later date when you've had time to think and weigh risks and decide for yourself.

When my first child was a baby, we had heard that vaccination in Japan didn't start until age 2 (I've since heard that they're on the same schedule as the U.S.). The reason that they waited is that the thymus gland doesn't fully develop until age 2. It is responsible for telling the body what is self and what is the outside and foreign.

We decided we could wait. Not everyone is on the U.S. schedule or agrees with our allopathic practices. For example fluoride is not recommended by the Canadian or Australian dental associations. They are healthy 1st world countries--clearly there's room for disagreement about what are the healthiest practices.

You are your baby's mother. You are responsible for your baby's health. If you don't know what to do, research until you do.

Good luck!

Crunchy check list:  2 homebirths (one accidental UC!), co-slept, no CIO, cloth diapers, home/un school, raw milk drinker (!) I am a walking cliche!! I even blog and knit...
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#6 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 06:24 PM
 
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FWIW, I also don't talk about researching vaccines, side effects, ingredients, etc. because I think that detracts from the "religious" beliefs. I do however ask about recognizing certain diseases and where to get more information if I feel that type of convo is appropriate.

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#7 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone! I've decided what I'm going to do...

NOTHING! Not now anyway. I don't know why I couldn't figure this out. It's a pretty obvious thing. I guess I just wanted someone (you guys) to reassure me that it's okay

I'll tell her that DH and I still haven't agreed on what we're doing and I can't make a decision without him. (He won't be there) I'll have two more months (until her 4 month visit) to figure out what to do, if anything.

I'll be back to do my research and I'm sure I'll have questions!

Thanks guys! I love MDC!

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#8 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 10:05 PM
 
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Be careful not to let them twist your arm into "just one shot" or anything like that...unless you are ready. Be ready for any kind of response from them...like them being hostile or pushy. They may even treat you as if you were crazy or the only person in the world who would ever want to decline vaxes. They may also pull all kinds of scare tactics to coerce you. They may also want to you sign the "bad mommy" form. You will have to decide if you want to sign that form or not.

Kim mama to DS 12/2005, Pepper kitty , and 10/03, 1/05;
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#9 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 10:48 PM
 
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Be careful not to let them twist your arm into "just one shot" or anything like that...unless you are ready. Be ready for any kind of response from them...like them being hostile or pushy. They may even treat you as if you were crazy or the only person in the world who would ever want to decline vaxes. They may also pull all kinds of scare tactics to coerce you. They may also want to you sign the "bad mommy" form. You will have to decide if you want to sign that form or not.


If you wanted to, you could add language to that form and initial it. If it comes up and you want to...

Crunchy check list:  2 homebirths (one accidental UC!), co-slept, no CIO, cloth diapers, home/un school, raw milk drinker (!) I am a walking cliche!! I even blog and knit...
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#10 of 28 Old 03-21-2009, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What's this form you guys are talking about? Just a refusal form?

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#11 of 28 Old 03-22-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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You should have plenty of time to read it now (instead of just having it shoved in your face at the ped's office)...

http://www.cispimmunize.org/pro/pdf/...oVaccinate.pdf

Some thoughts on the form...

http://www.*********/vaccines/form.html

Kim mama to DS 12/2005, Pepper kitty , and 10/03, 1/05;
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#12 of 28 Old 03-22-2009, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You should have plenty of time to read it now (instead of just having it shoved in your face at the ped's office)...

http://www.cispimmunize.org/pro/pdf/...oVaccinate.pdf

Some thoughts on the form...

http://www.*********/vaccines/form.html
Wow! This visit could get a little hairy. Now I'm even more nervous. Maybe "an emergency" will come up so that I'll have to cancel.

I wish I could go back in time. I would've never taken any of the kids to "well visits" I just feel like since we've already kept them all current, we have to keep taking them. I feel to I owe it to the Dr. to be "loyal".

My mom never took me to well visits, nor did she vaccinate me on schedule. I even got sent home from school for not being up to date! She was simply irresponsible! Vaccines are something she DOES believe in, she was just a very irresponsible parent (in many different ways). Growing up like that, I wanted different for my children. So, I always followed "protocol". I did what I was told, because it was the "right" thing to do. Now look.

I wish I lived centuries ago.

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#13 of 28 Old 03-22-2009, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You should have plenty of time to read it now (instead of just having it shoved in your face at the ped's office)...

http://www.cispimmunize.org/pro/pdf/...oVaccinate.pdf

Some thoughts on the form...

http://www.*********/vaccines/form.html

Thank you BTW!

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#14 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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Wow! This visit could get a little hairy. Now I'm even more nervous. Maybe "an emergency" will come up so that I'll have to cancel.

I wish I could go back in time. I would've never taken any of the kids to "well visits" I just feel like since we've already kept them all current, we have to keep taking them. I feel to I owe it to the Dr. to be "loyal".
You're welcome. (I didn't mean to scare you, just prepare you, in case.) ... So, how'd it go?

Well, the way it works for us is that I found an acceptable ped before DS was born ( I already knew I wasn't going to vax). Even she wasn't the greatest about it, so I eventually found another ped who we really do like. We've gone to all the well visits without having vaxes. Personally I think it's good to find a sympathetic and good doctor when it's not so critical, so you have one if you really need one later. There are others on this board who don't go to well visits at all.

FWIW, I don't think it's in your best interest to be so attached to a doctor that you feel you owe it to him/her to compromise your beliefs so he/she is happy. Really, they are just supposed to be working for you, not the other way around. If your doctor is not happy with your stopping the vaxes, can you find a new ped or perhaps a family practice doc that is open to other vax options? You could post on your local area MDC tribe to find one. There used to be someone on MDC you could PM and she had a list of vax flexible docs in all states. I'm sure you could find her if you do a search.

Kim mama to DS 12/2005, Pepper kitty , and 10/03, 1/05;
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#15 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:03 PM
 
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If you wanted to, you could add language to that form and initial it. If it comes up and you want to...
In my case it didn't do much good. The ped looked at it and said ok, but you still have to sign our form too. I refused and we found another (mellower) MD.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#16 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I can tell you how it went by telling you that I left that place crying and I cried the whole way home. I told my husband that I hated myself when I got home.

After yesterday, it has become completely clear to me that I have serious issues that I need to deal with inside. These issues are causing problems for my children now. I feel that a parent that knowingly does something that is not good for their child, but rather bad is a bad parent. With that definition, that's me. That has been me. I try, I do. But when it comes to standing up for myself or my children, I simply can't. I put what's best for others before my own children. I've failed them and myself.

I'm sorry for rambling. Anyone reading this is probably really confused. I'm messed up right now.

I'm in the process of blogging about this. I'll post that link as soon as I finish it.

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#17 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Oh, sending BIG and : your way!

We all have our own issues to sort out. Keep working on it. You might consider getting a professional to help you sort out the personal stuff.

As for the doctor situation, perhaps when this all blows over you can start making some alternate plans while the timing isn't so pressing.

Would it be better for your DH to deal with the doctors/pediatricians, for now? (You don't have to reply to any of this now, just something for you to think about.)

Kim mama to DS 12/2005, Pepper kitty , and 10/03, 1/05;
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#18 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:28 PM
 
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Well, I can tell you how it went by telling you that I left that place crying and I cried the whole way home. I told my husband that I hated myself when I got home.

After yesterday, it has become completely clear to me that I have serious issues that I need to deal with inside. These issues are causing problems for my children now. I feel that a parent that knowingly does something that is not good for their child, but rather bad is a bad parent. With that definition, that's me. That has been me. I try, I do. But when it comes to standing up for myself or my children, I simply can't. I put what's best for others before my own children. I've failed them and myself.

I'm sorry for rambling. Anyone reading this is probably really confused. I'm messed up right now.

I'm in the process of blogging about this. I'll post that link as soon as I finish it.

Don't beat yourself up so much! Im sure you are doing the best that you can!

As for being able to stand up for yourself and your children, that is something that takes practice if it is not something you are used to doing. Keep at it like Kim said. You can do it!! Get in touch with that mama bear instinct that is in all of us.
It sounds like you did some vaccines???....it's ok. Im sure eveything will be fine. I agree maybe until you can work on feeling better about things, your DH can do the visits. or just skip them altogther. They are not nec. if your kids are healthy.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#19 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:30 PM
 
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Its OK. Time heals all. You will be stronger from this situation. It sounds like you are growing from it already. Give yourself some credit, you sound like a great Mama!

Mama to & +:::
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#20 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here is more of what happened.

I'm NOT NOT NOT taking any of my children back there. I can't put myself in a situation like that again! I'm going to try to find a new provider. That woman totally manipulated and disrespected me! When I mentioned Dr. Sears she rolled her eyes and shook her head. She talked down to me as if I were stupid. She was unclear and misleading.

Really, the only reason I have taken them all to "well baby/child" visits is to have the "documentation" that I'm a "good mom". (A lot of quotations, hope you get what I'm trying to say) Like I said in a previous post, I grew up very different. I didn't even go to the dentist until I was 14! I didn't want to be that kind of a parent so I've always followed "protocol". I now see that as just plain stupid. I need to do what I feel is right in my heart and what God wants me to do.

I don't know why I can't just say what I want. I don't know why I'm afraid to hurt/upset/inconvenience someone else and suffer instead. Maybe professional help would do me some good.

Does anyone else feel that this world and society is cold and selfish? I feel like I can't thrive in this world. If I could just not have to have any ties with society at all, I feel like I'd be fine.

This is kind of getting off topic now.

Sorry for rambling.

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#21 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 11:22 PM
 
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Does anyone else feel that this world and society is cold and selfish? I feel like I can't thrive in this world. If I could just not have to have any ties with society at all, I feel like I'd be fine.
Yes...most of the time I feel the world is the same way you are feeling about it. Then when I come here, usually I find there is an oasis of sanity and real thought going on here. I just wish everyone on MDC lived nearby. I think we need an MDC commune

Have you read the book "Boundaries: When to say Yes, When to say No to take control of your life" by Cloud and Townsend?
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Whe.../dp/0310585902
This is the original book and they have a whole Boundaries series. It has helped me a lot. It deals with exactly the situation you are working on.

Kim mama to DS 12/2005, Pepper kitty , and 10/03, 1/05;
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#22 of 28 Old 03-24-2009, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wish everyone on MDC lived nearby. I think we need an MDC commune


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Have you read the book "Boundaries: When to say Yes, When to say No to take control of your life" by Cloud and Townsend?
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Whe.../dp/0310585902
This is the original book and they have a whole Boundaries series. It has helped me a lot. It deals with exactly the situation you are working on.
Haven't heard of of it, but I'm going to check it out!

Thanks Kim! You're so sweet and helpful!

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#23 of 28 Old 03-25-2009, 01:36 AM
 
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This all happens for a reason. You will come out of this tougher. I would drop that dr. though. They should respect you just as much as you respect(ed) them.
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#24 of 28 Old 03-25-2009, 11:57 AM
 
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I agree...that doc is OUT!

This experience will help you empower yourself and you will come out a stronger advocate for you family in the end!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#25 of 28 Old 03-26-2009, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Now the trouble's going to be finding a new provider... I'll need to head over to "Finding Your Tribe"...

I am strongly considering skipping well baby/child visits altogether. The only issue I have is - what if we really do need something if someone's sick (or we continue to have issues with thrush?! or something else is abnormal or wrong?

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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#26 of 28 Old 03-26-2009, 10:55 AM
 
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we don't do well visits anymore because we don't like our new doc due to an insurance change. We do go if they are sick, and just say we don't vaccinate, our religion prohibits it.

hh2.gif

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#27 of 28 Old 03-26-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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Now the trouble's going to be finding a new provider... I'll need to head over to "Finding Your Tribe"...

I am strongly considering skipping well baby/child visits altogether. The only issue I have is - what if we really do need something if someone's sick (or we continue to have issues with thrush?! or something else is abnormal or wrong?
Have you tried a family doctor or DO?

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#28 of 28 Old 03-26-2009, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you tried a family doctor or DO?
No... We have an HMO and we've always gone to this ped since DD1 was born.

I wonder if BCN would have any in-network naturopathic doctors...?

If not, a family dr. or DO would be better I suppose.

It is pretty pointless to go for routine check-ups... The main thing is weight gain, and you can tell if your LO is gaining properly yourself. I have my own baby scale anyway!

Erica, wife to Jason (March 2002) . Mama to Ava (June 2003) , Jason Jr. [AKA JJ] (August 2004) , Lila (January 2009) , Maura (October 2010) , and a new person in December 2012!
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