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#1 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What are your top reasons your family decided NOT to vaccinate? I am just curious to see how many views are similar to mine. DH and I had another argument about the subject last night and I ended up leaving the room in tears.
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#2 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 11:26 AM
 
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1) My kids did not have an aluminum, mercury, animal tissues, unintentional animal virus (ala SV40), aborted fetal cells (even if derived from), antibiotic deficiency.
2) My kids are robustly healthy and we are not scared of the diseases that have vaccines.
3) I am concerned with the massive increase in: allergies, asthma, skin problems, growth problems, autism, and declining immune function. All of the fully vaccinated kids that I know have some or all of those problems. They get sick easily and often and have some or all of the chronic problems in the list.
4) From a historical perspective, how did my parents and grandparents survive what were then considered harmless childhood diseases? Why is now different?
5) After research, I found out that most of the diseases declined or the death rate did after improved nutrition, sanitation and water supply. The vaccines were not so miraculous after all and were introduced after most diseases in this country were essentially gone or rendered harmless by improved living conditions.
6) I found through research that the parameters of the definition of polio changed after the introduction of the vaccine... hmmm. That seems a little weird, doesn't it? Why would they do that if they were confident in the vaccine's ability to confer immunity?
7) I am concerned with the conflict of interest and revolving door nature of the FDA, CDC and pharma. They all trade jobs and there is no objective third party oversight. Patent holders for medicines or vaccines are allowed to serve in government bodies that make recommendations about the medicines or vaccines (Paul Offit anyone?)
8) I don't believe that medicine knows about or cares about or encourages breastfeeding. Again, through my own research, I discovered for myself how truly healing and immune building breastfeeding is. As an aside, why does the media or doctors not mention during breast cancer awareness month that breastfeeding decreases the chance of breast cancer in women and in female babies both. Why not supply that information?
9) My suspicions are raised by the language of the vehement proponents of vaccination. There can never be a vaccine reaction, as there is for every medication?! Adverse reactions are always coincidental?! That, right there, is patently absurd.
10) I found through my research that vaccines are not well tested. They are not tested to see if they cause cancer or have mutagenic potential or if they can impair fertility. They are not tested against saline placebos, rather, other vaccines that also have aluminum in them and other substances that are known to cause reactions. How is that good science?
11) Do kids need 35 or however many shots is is these days, in order to be healthy? On the face of it, that seems ridiculous to me too.

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#3 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 12:54 PM
 
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: Great list, Laura!

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#4 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 01:12 PM
 
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PP says it all. Just want to add one more thing...

I believe that the human immune system is designed to fight disease and I am fully confident that if left to nature, MY LOs body will do its job. Why delibritely expose my child to toxins that can be potentially harmful in light of this? To quote another MDC mama(forget who)...

"I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one."
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#5 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 01:16 PM
 
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My reasoning began when my dd had an adverse reaction to her vaccines. While not lifethreatening (so we've been told), the conditions persist 3 years after her last vaccine. Her life will never be the same, and we're LUCKY because while heartbreaking, in the overall scheme of life they're pretty minor compared to what other children have suffered.

Imo, it is an unfortunate fact of life that in order to be healthy you have to get sick once in a while. Our immune system is built by exposure to different diseases. Sometimes that means we actually will get sick with that exposure, other times we won't. The more exposure we have to illnesses the stronger that immune system is and the less likely we are to catch things. A great example of this can be seen historically when they would infect people with cowpox to avoid smallpox. Pretty disgusting, but it also illustrates that exposure to some illnesses can prevent catching others in the most simplified of terms. Once a person is exposed to or contracts many of the diseases out there that we vaccinate for, they have lifelong immunity of that disease. They may have measles at age 3, but when they reach 70 and unwittingly hold their grandchild who has measles, they are protected because the body remembers. If for some reason they do catch it, it will normally be much milder as the body will still retain the memory of the disease and be able to counter it more swiftly.

Vaccines counteract every bit of that. The immunity conferred by them is not lifelong - if it even "takes". The immune system, imo, is not as strong as it's not triggered to work in the natural way it was intended. Most of the diseases vaccines exist for are not "scary". Scarlett fever prior to antibiotics was feared far more in my grandparents generation than measles or chickenpox! I laughed when the dr accused me of relying on herd immunity to protect my kids from these diseases - I don't want their herd immunity! I'm not afraid for my child to get the measles, for most healthy children it's nothing more than a blip on the radar of childhood.

I'm very concerned with both the quantity and quality of vaccines that are now being pushed onto children. Veternarians have come up with a condition called vacinosis. This occurs in animals when they are "over vaccinated" and can lead to many complications including death. If that's possible to happen in a 70 lb dog with 4 shots, what are the same type of shots that are full of preservatives and heavy metals doing to a 10 lb human baby?

Finally, I have issues with authority and scare tactics If a dr wants to sit down and discuss vaccines, acknowledging the risks and the actual benefits then I'm more willing to listen. However, the constant barage of propaganda about how "your child will DIE without this vaccine and cause OTHER children to DIE because you're a terrible, ignorant parent who doesn't want to vaccinate" just isn't going to do it for me. That type of approach tells me there is more going on that anyone is willing to own up to. Add in the "review panels" that are filled with pharma reps and those who have a vested interest in the success of vaccines, and it's makes me very reluctant to give my children anything else without more, in-depth research on my part.
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#6 of 34 Old 04-26-2009, 05:43 PM
 
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hi

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#7 of 34 Old 04-27-2009, 09:59 PM
 
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There has never been a study compared vaxed to non-vaxed. Never. Not even one. Even though vaccines are supposedly super safe and well-studied. In trials they just add a new vax to the existing schedule and call it a day.

As a parent, I don't think I can consent in an informed manner without this information. Since it is not available I resort to the default, which is not vaxing.

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#8 of 34 Old 04-28-2009, 02:23 AM
 
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For the most part, I agree with lauradbg. However, to play Devil's Advocate, I wouldn't argue point #4. Our grandparents did die of many diseases, some of which we vaccinate for and some of which we don't. I never argue history like that, because it's too easy for the other person to turn it back around and trap you with it.

For example, "When my grandmother was a baby, they didn't have vaccines for chicken pox, and everyone was just fine."

"OK, but when your grandmother was a baby, they didn't have car seats either, and we use those."

Like that.

My personal #1 reason for not vaccinating is that I think my child has a greater chance of harm from the ingredients in the vaccines than he does of being harmed by any of the diseases.

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#9 of 34 Old 04-28-2009, 02:31 AM
 
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Your dh should write down the answers to these questions for every disease/vaccine.

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

Watch this Video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#10 of 34 Old 04-28-2009, 12:19 PM
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I agree with PP. Additionally I believe that the vaccine experiment is prompted by arrogance that we can conquer the balance of pathogens to immunity that has developed in humans over thousands of years. I feel that there are unintended consequences to this - some we see already (allergies, ADHD, increases in autoimmune disorders, serotype replacement, etc.) and some we may not yet see. Butterfly effect.
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#11 of 34 Old 04-28-2009, 02:58 PM
 
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lauradbg summed it up nicely. I believe universal vaccination will one day be seen as a medical disgrace alongside Vioxx, Thalidomide, routine lobotomies, and other similar horrors.

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#12 of 34 Old 04-28-2009, 08:17 PM
 
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Hi, thank you so much for all these info. I'm seriously thinking about quitting vaccination.
She went all the way with vaxes - and then we stopped. When she was one year old. That means, she did not get priorix & infanrix.

Tomorrow I'm going to the doctor to sign that it's my decision.
And I hope everything goes well. I'm all right with it, but I don't know how to explain to others.

Thank you so much!
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#13 of 34 Old 05-02-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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If the vaccinations are so bad why here in canada they make every one get them and they pay for it .. I am sure if it wasn't necessary the government here wouldnt pay for them ... whats better having your child a little feverish or possible death . Even vaccinations that are not covered here i have gotten for my son .. if you would do anything in your power to keep your kid healthy and safe then get them no one else s opinion means anything your the parent and every one has different opinions . However look at the other countries that don't have health care and the vax's they constantly have breakouts that kill hundreds of ppl , if we stop giving our children these we too will be in the same position as the other countries in our world and live in fear that every time we go out our children could come home with a disease infect the siblings and parents . PLEASE PLEASE look into the future . Even if its costly or they might get a small cold or fever its worth it . THEY MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY SAVE LIVES ! But like I said no one can parent your own kids other then yourself!
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#14 of 34 Old 05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
 
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If the vaccinations are so bad why here in canada they make every one get them and they pay for it .. I am sure if it wasn't necessary the government here wouldnt pay for them ... whats better having your child a little feverish or possible death . Even vaccinations that are not covered here i have gotten for my son .. if you would do anything in your power to keep your kid healthy and safe then get them no one else s opinion means anything your the parent and every one has different opinions . However look at the other countries that don't have health care and the vax's they constantly have breakouts that kill hundreds of ppl , if we stop giving our children these we too will be in the same position as the other countries in our world and live in fear that every time we go out our children could come home with a disease infect the siblings and parents . PLEASE PLEASE look into the future . Even if its costly or they might get a small cold or fever its worth it . THEY MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY SAVE LIVES ! But like I said no one can parent your own kids other then yourself!
HMMM doesn't seem like you have done much research on the subject of vaccinating. I would suggest you do so before imploring people to vaccinate. Also your post is misplaced...this forum is for folks who have chosen NOT to vaccinate.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#15 of 34 Old 05-05-2009, 03:42 PM
 
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HMMM doesn't seem like you have done much research on the subject of vaccinating. I would suggest you do so before imploring people to vaccinate. Also your post is misplaced...this forum is for folks who have chosen NOT to vaccinate.
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#16 of 34 Old 05-05-2009, 04:28 PM
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If the vaccinations are so bad why here in canada they make every one get them and they pay for it .. I am sure if it wasn't necessary the government here wouldnt pay for them ... whats better having your child a little feverish or possible death . Even vaccinations that are not covered here i have gotten for my son .. if you would do anything in your power to keep your kid healthy and safe then get them no one else s opinion means anything your the parent and every one has different opinions . However look at the other countries that don't have health care and the vax's they constantly have breakouts that kill hundreds of ppl , if we stop giving our children these we too will be in the same position as the other countries in our world and live in fear that every time we go out our children could come home with a disease infect the siblings and parents . PLEASE PLEASE look into the future . Even if its costly or they might get a small cold or fever its worth it . THEY MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY SAVE LIVES ! But like I said no one can parent your own kids other then yourself!
costly, small cold, fever? Are you kidding me? These "fears" never crossed my mind. How about seizures, diabetes, rheumatism, Guillain-Barré, genital warts, anaphylactic shock, encephalitis, multiple sclerosis, thrombocytopenia, myelitis, tachycardia, allergies, ADHD, death...
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#17 of 34 Old 05-05-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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PP says it all. Just want to add one more thing...

I believe that the human immune system is designed to fight disease and I am fully confident that if left to nature, MY LOs body will do its job. Why delibritely expose my child to toxins that can be potentially harmful in light of this? To quote another MDC mama(forget who)...

"I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one."


We would rather augment our child's immune system when necessary, and give them the best shot at consistent optimal health via nutrition, as well as not believing it's truly possible to inject neurotoxins, carcinogens, etc into someone in order to improve their health.

Great lists, y'all! Good to read.
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#18 of 34 Old 05-06-2009, 07:57 PM
 
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Thanks for all the info on this thread, mommas! I'm just beginning my vac research (better late than never) after one of my DDs had a bad reaction to the chicken pox vac. The experience made me peak behind the curtain and I don't like what I see.

Don't know if I can work up the b*lls to buck the mainstream, but I'm getting there!

PS - I can't believe how many states are all or nothing with exemptions! Apart from the scientific problems with vac, the authoritarian aspect is so friggin scary!

Mom to : Belle and Izzy
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#19 of 34 Old 05-06-2009, 08:24 PM
 
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Thanks for all the info on this thread, mommas! I'm just beginning my vac research (better late than never) after one of my DDs had a bad reaction to the chicken pox vac. The experience made me peak behind the curtain and I don't like what I see.

Don't know if I can work up the b*lls to buck the mainstream, but I'm getting there!

PS - I can't believe how many states are all or nothing with exemptions! Apart from the scientific problems with vac, the authoritarian aspect is so friggin scary!

You don't need b*lls, you've got ovaries! There's a lot of strength there!

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#20 of 34 Old 05-06-2009, 08:29 PM
 
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Thanks for all the info on this thread, mommas! I'm just beginning my vac research (better late than never) after one of my DDs had a bad reaction to the chicken pox vac. The experience made me peak behind the curtain and I don't like what I see.

Don't know if I can work up the b*lls to buck the mainstream, but I'm getting there!

PS - I can't believe how many states are all or nothing with exemptions! Apart from the scientific problems with vac, the authoritarian aspect is so friggin scary!
Many of us are here because our children are vaccine injured.

1. Dd is a vaccine injured child.
2. Maybe there are some benefits to vaccinations, but never in a thousand years would I believe them when they told me. They've done far too much damage and refused to acknowledge it. FDA, CDC and pharma are seriously corrupt to the point that doctors don't even know that what they are learning is completely bunk.
3.When dd was reacting no one would acknowledge it. I won't ever go through that again.
4. Everything everyone else said more eloquently than I!

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#21 of 34 Old 05-06-2009, 08:43 PM
 
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I am not well researched or eloquent.

I have two mildly vaccine-injured children and that is enough. I am not going to risk having something more serious happen to this child, who would be exposed to FAR more vaxes because of the CDC upping the ante.

If I change my mind, I can always vax my littlest later, but I can never unvax his siblings..
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#22 of 34 Old 05-07-2009, 03:50 PM
 
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If the vaccinations are so bad why here in canada they make every one get them and they pay for it .. I am sure if it wasn't necessary the government here wouldnt pay for them ... whats better having your child a little feverish or possible death . Even vaccinations that are not covered here i have gotten for my son .. if you would do anything in your power to keep your kid healthy and safe then get them no one else s opinion means anything your the parent and every one has different opinions . However look at the other countries that don't have health care and the vax's they constantly have breakouts that kill hundreds of ppl , if we stop giving our children these we too will be in the same position as the other countries in our world and live in fear that every time we go out our children could come home with a disease infect the siblings and parents . PLEASE PLEASE look into the future . Even if its costly or they might get a small cold or fever its worth it . THEY MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY SAVE LIVES ! But like I said no one can parent your own kids other then yourself!
I live in AUstria where the government pays for all vaccines as well and still my baby DIED 6 days after a vaccine and the same government claimed I killed my son and made NO effort to find out the cause of death. The only cause I got was: death by destiny (No sh**).
As my pedi put it: for the government it is beneficial to have 1000 kids protected and 1 dead but not for the parents of the dead child.
Believe me: you do not want to join my club (the bereaved parents's club nobody wants to be a member of!).

It is VERY dangerous to believe things are good because the government says so. That's what them need: sheep!

Barbara, Mama to Isabel (06/2004), Jake (08/2006-03/2007), Noah (01/2008), and Matteo (07/2011) 
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#23 of 34 Old 05-07-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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I live in AUstria where the government pays for all vaccines as well and still my baby DIED 6 days after a vaccine and the same government claimed I killed my son and made NO effort to find out the cause of death. The only cause I got was: death by destiny (No sh**).
As my pedi put it: for the government it is beneficial to have 1000 kids protected and 1 dead but not for the parents of the dead child.
Believe me: you do not want to join my club (the bereaved parents's club nobody wants to be a member of!).

It is VERY dangerous to believe things are good because the government says so. That's what them need: sheep!
Oh, mama, I'm so, so sorry.

for your little one.

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#24 of 34 Old 05-09-2009, 10:08 PM
 
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It felt unnatural to me and somewhat unneccesary especially since we extended bf and my children are not in childcare. We might choose to vax some in the future but the amount of vax on such young children is quite overwhelming to me.

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#25 of 34 Old 05-09-2009, 11:07 PM
 
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There is a history of vax-related illness/mental impairment on my father's side. Two of his sisters became mentally retarded (not to be un-pc, but that's how it was explained to us growing up - they were born in the early 50's, so it was never diagnosed as more than that) and all of the children suffered from some sort of reaction at some point (I think the mildest was my father who had to be hospitalized with an extremely high fever).

Because of this, my parents never got us (4 kids) vaxed (although both my older brother and one younger sister decided to in their late teens/early 20s and I got a tetanus shot when I was about 25). I remember when we all had chicken pox at the same time (well, slightly staggered - I was the last to actually catch it) and my mom told me I also had the mumps and measles, but it all happened when I was pretty young, before school age. She didn't intentionally get us sick, it just happened because the diseases themselves were much more prevalent.

Now that I am a mother, I'm not willing to risk my child's life by getting her vaxed (and future children, for that matter). I bf and know that by doing so, I am doing the best thing I possibly can for dd's immune system.

Not very scientific, but this is 100% an emotional decision for me - I just let the science back it up if anyone gives me a hard time.

p.s. This map is a quick lookup tool that I found interesting. Just thought I'd pass it along.

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#26 of 34 Old 05-09-2009, 11:25 PM
 
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I am old enough to have had a childhood illness. I don't remember whether my mother said it was measles or chicken pox, but I had an extremely mild case of one or the other when I was nine months old. Mom said she wouldn't even have noticed if "all the other kids" hadn't come down with it. She stripped me naked, went over me "with a fine tooth comb" and finally found a few pox on my scalp so she called the doctor, who came right over (yea, housecalls were real back then) and confirmed the diagnosis. I was fine.
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#27 of 34 Old 05-10-2009, 12:02 AM
 
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From my research, the risks of the vaccines outweigh the benefits.

-Angela
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#28 of 34 Old 05-10-2009, 12:23 AM
 
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Agree with previous posters...and I believe that childhood illnesses are in our worlds and on this earth to mature and develop our immune system. I think it also gives children a perspective on healing and taking care of yourself. And it gives someone natural immunity which seems like such a natural process and a much better one than synthetic immunity.

Busy wife to dh for 5 years and mama to ds1 (11.09.04), ds2 (7.17.06) and ds3 coming Aug 09. :::
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#29 of 34 Old 05-10-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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Just one for us, really.

I sat down and looked at each disease, how likely my kids were to catch it, and how likely they were to have severe negative outcomes if they did catch it. And then I looked at potential vaccine reactions and side effects (just the ones they admit too, even). And what we could do to treat either the disease or the reaction. After all that, my best guess is that the risks are worse if I do vaccinate.

And then I started to get really angry. There's all this pressure to vaccinate, okay, well, then show me that vaccinating is safer than not vaccinating, with real studies and real numbers. That's not an unreasonable request, and I couldn't find that information ANYWHERE. Either they don't care enough to bother to prove it, or they don't want to get into it because while vaccination may be a good public health policy it's not a good individual health decision. I don't know. But the burden of proof is on them, and they didn't meet it.
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#30 of 34 Old 05-11-2009, 01:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gismobabe View Post
I live in AUstria where the government pays for all vaccines as well and still my baby DIED 6 days after a vaccine and the same government claimed I killed my son and made NO effort to find out the cause of death. The only cause I got was: death by destiny (No sh**).
As my pedi put it: for the government it is beneficial to have 1000 kids protected and 1 dead but not for the parents of the dead child.
Believe me: you do not want to join my club (the bereaved parents's club nobody wants to be a member of!).
am so sorry for your loss, mama

mama to callum (april 8,07) and everett (sept 24,09) - blessed to be married to my life's love since '98. novaxnocirc.gif

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