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#31 of 49 Old 05-29-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by marybethorama View Post
If the OP has a vaccine damaged child, why isn't she looking for a medical exemption?
I can't speak for OP's particular case but getting a medical exemption is next to impossible. First you have to find an allopath who recognizes and admits to a vaccine reaction or injury. Good luck with that. Then, even if you can find a doctor willing to do it, you're usually only exempted from one vaccine and its boosters, even if you're not entirely sure which vaccine hurt your child. So you might not have to give, say, the DTaP, but you still have to do the others to be "up to date". Kind of pointless.

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#32 of 49 Old 05-29-2009, 11:30 AM
 
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I have removed more posts from this thread.

Please keep with the UA when posting. Remember the forum we are in.

Quote:
This forum was created to serve the needs of members who have made the decision not to vaccinate or are seriously exploring making this decision.
Also, if you feel someone has behaved inappropriately, please report rather than responding to the thread.

Thanks!

I hope to be able to keep this on the board.
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#33 of 49 Old 05-29-2009, 06:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
But is it legal, do you know? Is there a specific regulation that gives a military commander control over a serviceperson's children's medical decisions? I guess that's my (more pertinent) question.

Do the children have to be vaxed for the family to get medical clearance by regulation, or is this just someone on a power trip? What happens if they just ignore the order and try to slip through the cracks?
Everything I read says that dependents have to get whatever vaxes are required for entry into that particular country (Japanese Encephalitis for Japan, for example, but there are none for Japan or Italy), but I have not found anything anywhere that states a dependent's vaxes must be up to date in order to get command sponsorship or for the military to purchase the dependent's plane tickets.

There is no regulation to be exempt from! It's someones power trip, but I've known at least 5 people to run into this problem. One protested and her dh was given a different assignment, one gave in and vaccinated, and I'm not sure what happened to the rest.

The military has a wide latitude to conduct it's own affairs. An assignment can be denied for any reason. Whether the military can blackmail a service member with "vaccinate your dependents or be separated from them for 3 years," hasn't really been tested. I'd probably follow the advice of that officer.

COMMAND SPONSORSHIP

http://www.48fss.com/DNN/LinkClick.a...O99U%3D&tabid= 138&mid=711 -

FAMILY MEMBER SUITABILITY SCREENING
OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D. SUITABILITY SCREENING FOR OVERSEAS AND REMOTE DUTY ASSIGNMENT

http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynam...s/1300.14D.pdf

DOD Form NAVMED 13001/2
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmed...(Encl%204).pdf
http://www.militaryhomefront.dod.mil...NT/1601311.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NAVY/JAPAN INFORMATION

I did a search on the mothering.com vax board for "navy"; just look for my responses... I think the first one has my general miltary childcare vaccination information; the second has Navy/Japan information.

Navy PCS 1

Navy PCS 2

Navy Search




Quote:


Originally Posted by
Quick update:
We just went for our overseas screening (VA to Japan). We sel/delay vax. We are Navy. We were told we HAD to get kids up to date on all vax per CDC/WHO recs or they would not sign the Form 1300-2 form for the immunizations. it was an Army reg (not sure which one - dh may remember) which clearly stated they must be current per the CDC recommendations.

Quote:
I would like to see the reg referenced. All that I have read up to this point said that the vaccinations are recommendations (except those required by the host country, which there are none) and are not requirements per reg (though you can be denied assignment for any reason).

K, I just found a copy of the NAVMED 13001/2; it says that immunization requirements are "assignment specific" and "meet destination country requirements" (there are none required by Japan).

Oddly enough, though they cited an Army reg. I don't know any overseas Army dependents with this problem; it's just the Navy.
FAMILY MEMBER SUITABILITY SCREENING
OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D. SUITABILITY SCREENING FOR OVERSEAS AND REMOTE DUTY
ASSIGNMENT
http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynam...s/1300.14D.pdf


DOD Form NAVMED 13001/2
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/nomi/swmi/Documents/Overseas%20Screening(Encl%204).pdf

Be aware that a couple of people have tried to use a section of a regulation that dealt with DODs schools, CDC daycares, and other childminding institutions that had nothing to do with dependents getting a medical clearance for an overseas accompanied tour, to deny a medical clearance for an overseas tour:



(Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf).
It's like saying "you cannot include pianos in your household goods and this regulation, regarding pcsing with pets, backs up my statement."

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#34 of 49 Old 06-01-2009, 11:46 PM
 
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Hi OP,
I am a former Navy wife, and we were stationed in Japan (in Yokosuka) from 1993-1995. I understand the difficulties with obtaining command sponsorship.

My husband, (then fiancee) had to get permission for us to be married, which took several months, and then he had to get command sponsorship, which took 3 months AFTER we were already married. And it was no easy process, because his orders did not include me. What he had to do was to go up his chain of command on the ship and I think he had to write several letters to his captain, though I'll confirm that when he gets home later. THey had to make an exception to the rules because like I mentioned it was technically not ok for me to come.

As you know, it's important that you obtain command sponsorship before going over there. And I can't remember but of course you may need it before they'll pack you up. Prepare yourself to remain here while your husband gets it worked out. I think if he respects the chain of command, and you pray, perhaps his chain of command will see the reasons you have chosen to not vaccinate and they will grant CS. There will be people who can help you get through the system. The ombudsmen may be of help to you, too.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this. It really is like the old saying, "if the Navy wanted you to be married, they would have issued you a wife." It stinks, but that's the reality.

I hope you and your husband will be able to get through to someone who will see you as individual people. And I don't recommend making a big stink over it yet. Wait and let your husband deal with his chain of command quietly. They can make an exception more easily if its done quietly than loudly. ykwim?

And if you get there, you will LOVE it! It is a wonderful place to live, especially out in the economy.
Thinking of you!!
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#35 of 49 Old 08-21-2009, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, We just got back from our medical screening.

I'm sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner... frankly I read some posts that had me in tears and I couldn't bear to respond. Thank you to those that have been supportive. This whole thing has been a roller coaster!

I asked around on our new base and found the most sympathetic doctor... the questioning went like this

Doctor: "Are their vaccinations up to date?"
Me: "No"
Doctor: "What's your plan for that?"
Me: "To not vaccinate them"
Doctor: "May I ask why?"
Me: "I have a religious opposition to the practice of vaccination"
Doctor: "Oh, okay... you may have to sign something for that"

In the end he signed off on the form for everything except for the "vaccines up to date box" and it got sent up the chain. We'll see if we hit any roadbumps because of that. He did sign that he recommended us all fit for travel to Japan, though.

I'll update again as it should be all reviewed within the next week! Seems like things are much easier here in Cali than they would have been in MD.

Val, Mama to Aidan (5 years) and Autumn (almost 2)
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#36 of 49 Old 08-22-2009, 04:13 PM
 
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Just browsed through your thread... and : for you that you had a positive day today. I hope your roller coaster ride starts to be less bumpy from now on
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#37 of 49 Old 08-24-2009, 10:34 AM
 
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Hello-I live in Japan (Air Force). We are not vaxing-however the 2 kids we did have when we came here were all caught up. But I do have friends here who came with children who are not vaxed at all. So apparently it was okay for them, I see no rreason for them to hold you up because of the same situation.
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#38 of 49 Old 08-24-2009, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies.

Well... DH got called into the office today and they said they don't have a problem with it on this end but they are going to E-mail the base in Atsugi to make sure it's okay?.... We'll see what happens with that.

Val, Mama to Aidan (5 years) and Autumn (almost 2)
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#39 of 49 Old 08-25-2009, 09:52 AM
 
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fingers crossed for you.
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#40 of 49 Old 08-25-2009, 12:54 PM
 
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Praying for you!
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#41 of 49 Old 09-04-2009, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Update everyone!!! Our paperwork went all over the chain of command in both countries and nobody seemed to know how to handle it. I went into medical today to check on it and we've been approved!!!! The final word is that they decided I seem to know what I'm doing, I've done my research, and they're not concerned about it in the end!!!!!!

I got the whole "they won't be able to attend school bla bla bla bla" speech... I'll cross that bridge in a minute but for now we can go to Japan! :

Thank you for all your encouragement and kind words! I was so ready to give up but I'm glad I stayed to fight the good fight. It was worth it in the end!

Val, Mama to Aidan (5 years) and Autumn (almost 2)
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#42 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 06:51 AM
 
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Awesome!

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#43 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 10:23 AM
 
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So happy for you and your family!
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#44 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 10:06 PM
 
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That's so wonderful!:

Quote:
After he got his 3 year shots he immediately became allergic to wheat, eggs, dairy, apples, and soy. You try to live on a diet without those things. If he has any of them he goes into anaphylactic shock. I'm not playing roulette with their immune systems anymore. My biggest regret is getting him any shots at all, ever. I cry at night thinking about what I've put him through with my ignorance. I won't let a needle touch my daughter. I just won't... Life will go on for us with a temporary seperation from their father... I don't know how I'd go on if she was damaged as well.
My eldest who was vax'd has life-threatening food allergies too Youngest who's vax free seems perfectly fine- what a relief- food allergies are so hard!
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#45 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Valrock View Post
Update everyone!!! Our paperwork went all over the chain of command in both countries and nobody seemed to know how to handle it. I went into medical today to check on it and we've been approved!!!! The final word is that they decided I seem to know what I'm doing, I've done my research, and they're not concerned about it in the end!!!!!!

I got the whole "they won't be able to attend school bla bla bla bla" speech... I'll cross that bridge in a minute but for now we can go to Japan! :

Thank you for all your encouragement and kind words! I was so ready to give up but I'm glad I stayed to fight the good fight. It was worth it in the end!

I'm excited to hear the results of someone who succeeded!!!!!!!

Of course, now you are the example and everyone will come to you and ask how you did it .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#46 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
I wonder who is giving you this information? We are military and we lived in Germany and my children were not up to date on their vaxes. They never said anything to us. We lived off base for awhile and then on base. It never came up??? I just can't imagine.
I'm guessing the Navy doesn't have a large presence in Germany;it is the Navy that is causing all the problems with this.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#47 of 49 Old 09-05-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by larkedyflarp View Post
That's so wonderful!:



My eldest who was vax'd has life-threatening food allergies too Youngest who's vax free seems perfectly fine- what a relief- food allergies are so hard!
I also have a almost fully vaxed dd with severe food and environmental allergies and a nearly vax free ds (2&4m shots only) who is allergy free.

: I am thrilled that things worked out for you and you will be going with your dh and your kids will remain vax free.

 
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#48 of 49 Old 09-06-2009, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
I'm excited to hear the results of someone who succeeded!!!!!!!

Of course, now you are the example and everyone will come to you and ask how you did it .
LOL I know huh... I kept my mouth shut until someone gave me a hard time and then I was a huge pain in the rear to anyone on base who tried to tell me we couldn't go . I argued a little with the overseas screener until he finally threw up his hands and literally said "YOU WIN!" They did have a big problem with my daughter not having well baby checks. I said "Seriously??? She's so healthy she's NEVER needed to see a doctor. Don't you think that's a great thing?" He just tapped his pencil on the desk... had no words for that.

So in the end I think it's best to fly under the radar until they give you hard time and then come out with guns blazing . Know your stuff but don't throw it at them until they make you.

Also I stuck to my story. I claimed a RELIGIOUS exemption. I never stated one way or the other about how I felt about vaccines and their danger etc. I kept repeating that I had a religious objection to the practice of vaccinations. Nobody was out of line enough to try and question me on that. They're not allowed to. Thanks to Emmeline I was more knowledgeable on the rules and regs than the screener/doctor were... so I had the upper hand there and it came in handy. I'm glad, in my case, nobody tried to play "I'm the big bad boss man and I make my own rules."

I'm going to feel a lot better when DH goes to the boat in a few days... knowing that we're all going overseas TOGETHER soon!

Val, Mama to Aidan (5 years) and Autumn (almost 2)
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#49 of 49 Old 09-06-2009, 03:13 PM
 
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Congrats! Have a great time in Japan ::

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Missing DD Lily 6/17/10- 12/13/12

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